Current Events > It's hilarious that Square Enix keeps getting owned when it comes to FF

(+) Yeah! (+)

Theyve leaned so hard into trying to make FF an action series, believing the mainstream audience doesnt want RPGs anymore, and then games like Elden Ring and Baldurs Gate 3 come along and stomp their sales numbers. Trying to get AAA sales numbers by leaning into niche genres like character action is such a dumb approach. Hopefully they realize this and make FF17 somewhat resemble an RPG.

Did you just say that Elden Ring isn't an action game cuz

Wtf is a character action game

pegusus123456 posted...

Did you just say that Elden Ring isn't an action game cuz

its primarily an RPG that has action combat. SE is trying to make straight up action games.

codey posted...

Wtf is a character action game

exactly. mainstream audiences dont know either.

codey posted...

Wtf is a character action game

idk the definition, but it's something like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta.

FF16 is popular and good tho

It's just a PS5 exclusive

Also FF15 is one of their best selling FFs

ssk9716757 posted...

exactly. mainstream audiences dont know either.

I'm guessing that includes you?

ssk9716757 posted...

its primarily an RPG that has action combat. SE is trying to make straight up action games.

Like Strangers of Paradise?

ssk9716757 posted...

its primarily an RPG that has action combat.

What does that mean exactly?

ssk9716757 posted...

SE is trying to make straight up action games.

FFXVI skewed more action, yes. Still a highly narrative-driven game and has some RPG elements. But it did skew more action.

FFVIIR has more RPG elements and stuff and the second one comes out in a few months.

And both were still successful.

codey posted...

Wtf is a character action game

Spectacle fighter

Sir_Will posted...

FFXVI skewed more action, yes. Still a highly narrative-driven game and has some RPG elements. But it did skew more action.

Let's not lie, it had no RPG elements.

pegusus123456 posted...

Let's not lie, it had no RPG elements.

It has equal amounts to all the previous games I feel like you haven't played any of the previous games

Irony posted...

It has equal amounts to all the previous games I feel like you haven't played any of the previous games

Leveling doesn't matter. Weapons don't matter. Gear doesn't matter. There are no meaningful dialogue options.

The only choice you have is which abilities you use which is something that also happens in action games.

I definitely enjoyed FF16, but it very much took any meaningful rpg mechanics out of the series and it hurts the game for it.

The stats are straight progressive upgrades with little build variety beyond accessories. There's not even any Pokmon style elemental weaknesses. I don't mind the action gameplay, but there's not enough depth to it and that could've been changed with some very minor tweaks. Then there's a slap in the face of the upgrade system actually opening up some finally, but only in New Game+

pegusus123456 posted...

Leveling doesn't matter. Weapons don't matter. Gear doesn't matter. There are no meaningful dialogue options.

The only choice you have is which abilities you use which is something that also happens in action games.

Hold on now. Leveling and your sword definitely matter

I thought the combat was really good, and the story was the best of the single-player ones since FFX, but I really would like for it to have more RPG elements.

Even something as simple as party equipment would help. Allies were completely superficial. And leveling your equipment is completely static since they require material you've gotten through the main story anyway, with the additional materials being in huge abundance.

FFVIIR is the one that's absolutely nailed RPG x Action for FFs.

maybe it's cuz people are fucking bored of final fantasy in the same way they are of super hero movies

Irony posted...

It has equal amounts to all the previous games I feel like you haven't played any of the previous games

it literally has less stats than the previous games, so just on that aspect alone its not equal amounts.

Blue_Inigo posted...

Hold on now. Leveling and your sword definitely matter

They're strictly linear upgrades that you have no choice over. Each sword is something like +10 stats higher than the other and you only unlock them after completing main or side quests.

Speaking of, another knock against it being an RPG: there's zero reason to explore because the only thing you're going to find is 10 sharp teeth or whatever the hell which only contributes to its entirely superfluous crafting system and you'll end the game with 500 sharp teeth, so it's not like you need them anyway.

Sir_Will posted...

What does that mean exactly?

FFXVI skewed more action, yes. Still a highly narrative-driven game and has some RPG elements. But it did skew more action.

FFVIIR has more RPG elements and stuff and the second one comes out in a few months.

And both were still successful.

1. They could put out literally anything with a name starting with Final Fantasy VII and it would be successful. Its actually concerning how low that success is. The gaming market was a lot smaller back then, so that the remake has sold roughly half of what the original did with a much smaller audience is something to think about.
2. Success is relative. As I said, the audience was a lot smaller back in the day, so FF XV selling 3 million more copies than FF XII and about half of what FF X sold is not the accomplishment you seem to think it is. Dragon Quest XI selling about 6.5 million units despite that series historically selling fuck all in the west is likewise something to think about.

Now, the reasons for the series decline are debatable.

I would prefer the series return to being turn-based, as I prefer that for party-based JRPGs (while preferring action combat for ones where you control a single character), and I feel Ys, Tales, and Star Ocean do party-based action combat better than FF ever has or will, but I dont think switching from turn-based to action is the reason for the decline.

I think its because its become less and less of an RPG as its gone along and by this point lost its identity. Now, by my definition, FF has never really been an RPG as you dont get to make any roleplaying choices, but that doesnt mean the RPG elements it had havent gotten lessened. The writing has overall become worse and worse.

Square now seemed more focused on creating tech demos with lots of style and little substance. It is however interesting to think about how 7 and 10 the two most successful entries in terms of sales were the tech demos of their times, and analyze what they have that 15 and 16 dont.

pegusus123456 posted...

There are no meaningful dialogue options.

Like the vast majority of Final Fantasy?

dave_is_slick posted...

Like the vast majority of Final Fantasy?

If it was the first one to have them, you could have made the argument it was an RPG even without the other stuff.

But it didn't so it isn't so you can't.

The big problem with FFXVI is that it doesn't have the variety of a proper RPG or an action game. It's elements of both with the strengths of neither.

pegusus123456 posted...

If it was the first one to have them, you could have made the argument it was an RPG even without the other stuff.

But it didn't so it isn't so you can't.

The vast majority of Final Fantasy has never had significant dialogue choices. Why is this a knock on 16 specifically when the franchise has never really done that?

dave_is_slick posted...

The vast majority of Final Fantasy has never had significant dialogue choices. Why is this a know on 16 specifically when the franchise has never really done that?

Because I was listing things that RPG games have and FF16 doesn't. It's not that deep.

FFXVI doesn't have party members which is generally a mainstay of FF games.

The decision to focus entirely on the one character could have opened the door for dialogue choices to make it at least feel like a new RPG direction. Especially since there's so many quests where fuck all happens outside of dialogue. But they didn't take it.

The stuff that used to be there hasn't been replaced with anything substantial so it feels less like an RPG than ever before.