Current Events > What is Hamas' endgame?

(+) Yeah! (+)

seems like they just signed' Gaza's death sentence

and for what????

Money

money from whom?

They were tired of their people being slaughtered on the regular by monsters.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/9/2/AAfg3pAAE6Wo.jpg

Unless the UN steps in, this powder keg is going to explode...

Israel is going to unleash everything they got and Hama terrorists will fight to the end...

It will be a slaughterhouse in Gaza, bodies everywhere and the innocents will be caught in the crossfire...

DerWillZurMacht posted...

They were tired of their people being slaughtered on the regular by monsters.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/9/2/AAfg3pAAE6Wo.jpg

Oh yes, keep defending terrorists who don't even live in Palestine.

a hollywood movie or a call of duty game?

Saying why they exist and why they do it is defending them now?

Foppe posted...

Saying why they exist and why they do it is defending them now?

They exist to exploit a power vacuum and to make money using terrorist attacks and propaganda. They aren't fighting for freedom. They're terrorist dictators.

Fundamentalist terrorists groups often arent the brightest group of individuals

Fuck em

I would assume that they thought that anything is better than their current position.

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Oh yes, keep defending terrorists who don't even live in Palestine.

Bruh, for one, Gaza is definitely a part of Palestine, and two, it's pretty normal for people to defend heavily oppressed people >_>

Kimbos_Egg posted...

Oh yes, keep defending terrorists who don't even live in Palestine.

are u referring to hamas leadership

It appears their endgame is being wiped off the face of the Earth.

A terrorist organization must keep fighting the enemy if it is going to continue to recruit and hold the world's attention.

The world is largely content to keep quiet and let Israel continue to do as they please. Meanwhile there are thousands of very angry young Palestinians who find the status quo unacceptable.

To wreck Biden's attempt to normalize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which would screw Palestine l since under the proposed agreement, Israel only gave their "word" to SA to treat the Palestinians better. Now SA has to deal with a population sympathetic to Palestine, while Bibi's coalition partners don't even want the two state solution.

I didn't think I'd see the day where the status quo of the left is support of Hamas, but here we are.

Their "endgame" is continued existence and ownership of the Mandatory Palestine area with Israel and Palestine being 2 seperate states.

Israel wants a one state solution were they annex Palestine and own the land. Granting the West Bank's Palestinian population Israeli citizenship while maintaining Israel's current status as a Jewish state with recognized minorities.

Mix in religion and an age old land dispute turns nasty.

Hamas cannot win in a conventional war on any quantifiable level so they resort to terrorism like pretty much every weaker side in a conflict has done since recorded warfare.

Even if you hate Hamas it's crazy to pretend you don't understand what their agenda is. Both Israel and Palestine have been shouting their goals loudly to anyone who will listen.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Their "endgame" is continued existence and ownership of the Mandatory Palestine area with Israel and Palestine being 2 seperate states.

Israel wants a one state solution were they annex Palestine and own the land. Granting the West Bank's Palestinian population Israeli citizenship while maintaining Israel's current status as a Jewish state with recognized minorities.

Mix in religion and an age old land dispute turns nasty.

Hamas cannot win in a conventional war on any quantifiable level so they resort to terrorism like pretty much every weaker side in a conflict has done since recorded warfare.

Even if you hate Hamas it's crazy to pretend you don't understand what their agenda is. Both Israel and Palestine have been shouting their goals loudly to anyone who will listen.

I understand that murdering innocent women and children is unacceptable. That's all I need to understand.

FinalBraveNUT posted...

I understand that murdering innocent women and children is unacceptable.

I don't think you're going to find many people who think otherwise.

That's all I need to understand.

Those who refuse to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

To be clear, what Hamas has been shouting loudly is the irradication of all the Jews, and they absolutely do not support a two state solution lmao. That's all weird whitewashed bullshit, I assume spread around to make cheering on Hamas more palatable for your average left leaning person.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Their "endgame" is continued existence and ownership of the Mandatory Palestine area with Israel and Palestine being 2 seperate states.

Israel wants a one state solution were they annex Palestine and own the land. Granting the West Bank's Palestinian population Israeli citizenship while maintaining Israel's current status as a Jewish state with recognized minorities.

Mix in religion and an age old land dispute turns nasty.

Hamas cannot win in a conventional war on any quantifiable level so they resort to terrorism like pretty much every weaker side in a conflict has done since recorded warfare.

Even if you hate Hamas it's crazy to pretend you don't understand what their agenda is. Both Israel and Palestine have been shouting their goals loudly to anyone who will listen.

No its not. They support the one state solution too. They just have a very different idea of what that one state is.

Their endgame is the annihilation of the Jewish state. It says so in their fucking charter. And the fact that people on the left seem to be sympathetic to these animals just shows you how unrealistic their endgame is. And the sad part is, the people of Gaza chose this in 2007.

FinalBraveNUT posted...

I understand that murdering innocent women and children is unacceptable. That's all I need to understand.

You know that has been happening to Palestinian people right, too?

UnfairRepresent posted...

Their "endgame" is continued existence and ownership of the Mandatory Palestine area with Israel and Palestine being 2 seperate states.

Israel wants a one state solution were they annex Palestine and own the land. Granting the West Bank's Palestinian population Israeli citizenship while maintaining Israel's current status as a Jewish state with recognized minorities.

Mix in religion and an age old land dispute turns nasty.

Hamas cannot win in a conventional war on any quantifiable level so they resort to terrorism like pretty much every weaker side in a conflict has done since recorded warfare.

Even if you hate Hamas it's crazy to pretend you don't understand what their agenda is. Both Israel and Palestine have been shouting their goals loudly to anyone who will listen.

I think you confused Hamas with Fatah. Hamas wants a one state solution of Palestine with no Jews. Fatah wants a two state solution. West Bank is Fatah, Gaza is Hamas.

Hamas wants to destroy Israel. The current regime in Israel wants to destroy Palestine.

Whoever comes out on top in this conflict, a lot of innocent people are going to die.

cjsdowg posted...

You know that has been happening to Palestinian people right, too?

It's all wrong and sad. So two wrongs make a right? 3 wrongs? 4 wrongs? No it needs to be resolved without such savergery.

FinalBraveNUT posted...

I understand that murdering innocent women and children is unacceptable. That's all I need to understand.

Both sides have done that, what do you understand now?

Foppe posted...

Both sides have done that, what do you understand now?

Fo. Please repeat. Fo.... please repeat

FinalBraveNUT posted...

It's all wrong and sad. So two wrongs make a right? 3 wrongs? 4 wrongs? No it needs to be resolved without such savergery.

I am not saying any side is a right . However over and over it is claimed as this is just on one side.

FinalBraveNUT posted...

It's all wrong and sad. So two wrongs make a right? 3 wrongs? 4 wrongs? No it needs to be resolved without such savergery.

You're not wrong.

You'll find it's a helluva lot easier to say that when you're not the weaker side.

It's the same thing George Washington did when the British were wiping the floor with him every day for years. It's the same thing the Viet Cong wanted when the Americans were rolling them every day for years. Or what the Confederates did when they started to lose the US Civil War.

"These are questions mankind has been struggling with throughout history, your confusion is only human."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX_0763FOjA

^ Fun fact, that scene was censored in the UK on release due to Data saying the IRA's terrorism was successful (The IRA were actively car bombing the English at the time)

"Sure Israel is killing children too or a much larger scale but they're not terrorists since they are signifcantly more powerful in every way." is such an overly simple way to look at a complex issues. That's a youtube comment tier take.

Same as it's always been

destruction of the Israeli state

The Palestinian people, not even just the militants, are parading the corpses of Israeli citizens through Gaza.

This is a wholesale attack on civilians. Pretty sure the endgame, as with all Islamist people, is genocide.

TheGuilty1 posted...

The Palestinian people, not even just the militants, are parading the corpses of Israeli citizens through Gaza.

This is a wholesale attack on civilians. Pretty sure the endgame, as with all Islamist people, is genocide.

Israel killed a reporter and attacked her funeral. And you know there are Pals who are Christians. Civilians have stolen the houses of a Pals.

Fenriswolf posted...

To wreck Biden's attempt to normalize relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia, which would screw Palestine l since under the proposed agreement, Israel only gave their "word" to SA to treat the Palestinians better. Now SA has to deal with a population sympathetic to Palestine, while Bibi's coalition partners don't even want the two state solution.

Boom. Nail on the head.

UnfairRepresent posted...

Their "endgame" is continued existence and ownership of the Mandatory Palestine area with Israel and Palestine being 2 seperate states.

Israel wants a one state solution were they annex Palestine and own the land. Granting the West Bank's Palestinian population Israeli citizenship while maintaining Israel's current status as a Jewish state with recognized minorities.

Mix in religion and an age old land dispute turns nasty.

Hamas cannot win in a conventional war on any quantifiable level so they resort to terrorism like pretty much every weaker side in a conflict has done since recorded warfare.

Even if you hate Hamas it's crazy to pretend you don't understand what their agenda is. Both Israel and Palestine have been shouting their goals loudly to anyone who will listen.

I'm incredibly sympathetic to the Palestinian plight but even I can admit Israel have the right to retaliate for these recent attacks.

Your other point would be fine if it weren't for the fact there are people within Hamas who have gone on record as saying they wont accept anything other than the complete destruction of Israel.

You're way off beat anyway. The primary motivation for these recent attacks is to derail the ongoing Israel and Saudi Arabia talks.

FlyEaglesFly24 posted...

And the sad part is, the people of Gaza chose this in 2007.

Maybe they need new elections. No elections in 16 years doesn't sound like a democracy.

SHRlKE posted...

Maybe they need new elections. No elections in 16 years doesn't sound like a democracy.

The first thing Hamas did after winning that election was to suspend all future elections.

TheGuilty1 posted...

The Palestinian people, not even just the militants, are parading the corpses of Israeli citizens through Gaza.

This is a wholesale attack on civilians. Pretty sure the endgame, as with all Islamist people, is genocide.

Do you mean "Islamist" as in a portmanteau of Islam and Extremist? Or Islamist as in Muslim? Because I'm pretty sure not all Muslims seek genocide...

UnfairRepresent posted...

Their "endgame" is continued existence and ownership of the Mandatory Palestine area with Israel and Palestine being 2 seperate states.

Israel wants a one state solution were they annex Palestine and own the land. Granting the West Bank's Palestinian population Israeli citizenship while maintaining Israel's current status as a Jewish state with recognized minorities.

Mix in religion and an age old land dispute turns nasty.

Hamas cannot win in a conventional war on any quantifiable level so they resort to terrorism like pretty much every weaker side in a conflict has done since recorded warfare.

Even if you hate Hamas it's crazy to pretend you don't understand what their agenda is. Both Israel and Palestine have been shouting their goals loudly to anyone who will listen.

The thing is, what they want isn't achievable. Not through the scale of force they have available. Insurgency/counter insurgency conflicts are a never ending cycle of escalating war crimes that usually end when the occupier goes home because the cost is too high. Monetarily or politically. It's why the US eventually left Vietnam and why Russia left Afghanistan.

That can't happen here, since the what Israel is occupying they legitimately view as theirs plus they aren't seperated by an ocean in the way the US and Vietnam were. They are more than willing to end the Palestinians as a people rather than leave. Bombing schools, hospital, infrastructure, and shutting off water proves that. Hell it's very possible that Gaza will simply cease to be a thing after this.

I'm not saying the Palestinians aren't correct in attempting to fight, they live in what is essentially an open air prison and are subject to violent assault by the IDF and pogroms by settlers on a fairly regular basis. The Nakba never ended honestly, it just slowed down.

There is a way to wage an insurgency without specifically targeting civilians though. But it's also easy for me to say that, here in the safety of my own home. My family hasn't been displaced, oppressed, or killed since 1948. I'm not subject to checkpoints in what is supposed to be my own territory. My access to food and water hasn't been cut off at the whims of those in power.

Hamas actions here are unconscionable, immoral, unethical. Regardless of your oppression the intentional murder of children and helpless civilians is wrong, but it's also easy to see how they end up coming to the conclusion that it's the only way for the Palestinians to strike back. Explanation isn't excuse though.

In short there is no good easy answer here. Anything that could bring about a just and lasting peace is unpalatable to both sides, and in both cases that unpalatability is reasonably justified.

SHRlKE posted...

I'm incredibly sympathetic to the Palestinian plight but even I can admit Israel have the right to retaliate for these recent attacks.

Your other point would be fine if it weren't for the fact there are people within Hamas who have gone on record as saying they wont accept anything other than the complete destruction of Israel.

You're way off beat anyway. The primary motivation for these recent attacks is to derail the ongoing Israel and Saudi Arabia talks.

Ok, but do you see how derailing the Israel and Saudi talks still works within the confines of an insurgent campaign? Destabilizing your opponent politically is absolutely a viable goal for insurgency. It's one of the ways you can win, so he's not off base in the way you are claiming.

They are the opposite side of the coin from the fascist IDF who want to genocide palestinians. Hamas are islamic fundamentalist terrorists who seek nothing but genociding jews because they believe doing so will allow them to go to heaven.

I literally become a galaxy brain fence-sitting radical centrist when it comes to the topic of israel v.s. palestine. Both states are repressive theocracies that shouldn't exist in the 21st century.

ScazarMeltex posted...

Ok, but do you see how derailing the Israel and Saudi talks still works within the confines of an insurgent campaign? Destabilizing your opponent politically is absolutely a viable goal for insurgency. It's one of the ways you can win, so he's not off base in the way you are claiming.

Yes definitely. I just don't think it's going to help them further their goals in any way whatsoever and makes me question what their goals actually are.

If anything there are concessions for the Palestinians the Saudis were pushing for which I imagine is now going to be completely off the table so this has actually made things worse for the Palestinians. Not improved their situation or chances of achieving their goals.

DerWillZurMacht posted...

They were tired of their people being slaughtered on the regular by monsters.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/5/9/2/AAfg3pAAE6Wo.jpg

Is that why they killed that German girl by breaking her leg and parading around her body and using her as a seat cushion until she died???

Can someone ELI5 this whole conflict

littlebro07 posted...

Can someone ELI5 this whole conflict

Can someone explain 70 years worth of one of the most complicated and nuanced conflicts in human history in a bit size chunk? Nope. I don't think they can.

TheGuilty1 posted...

This is a wholesale attack on civilians. Pretty sure the endgame, as with all Islamist people, is genocide.

Oh please, no need to stereotype all Islamist people as supporters of genocide

Tbh, I'm over that entire regions forever war.

SHRlKE posted...

Can someone explain 70 years worth of one of the most complicated and nuanced conflicts in human history in a bit size chunk? Nope. I don't think they can.

I mean, we could, but we'd be here all day and people wouldn't bother to read it ;p