Current Events > US aid to Israel v. US aid to Ukraine.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Anyone else find it odd that both parties have weird contradictions when it comes to providing aid.

Large segments of the right dont want to continue to aid Ukraine but have no problems sending it to Israel.

Large segments of the left want to continue to aid Ukraine but dont want to send it to Israel.

Both countries were attacked.
Both countries were/are US allies.
Both countries are fighting for their survival.
Both countries pose important interests for the US.

Seems like the more consistent position would be to support aid to US interests or not.

Both countries kill civilians... wait a minute!

I dont think Israel is fighting for its life

Foppe posted...

Both countries kill civilians... wait a minute!

Are you sure about that?

Here we go again

Returning_CEmen posted...

I dont think Israel is fighting for its life

Yeah, that's bullshit. Ukraine is also fighting a great power that, on paper at least, that is much more powerful than it. Israel is fighting some ragtag terrorist group and we've already given Israel billions over the years.

Foppe posted...

Both countries kill civilians... wait a minute!

Ukraine has killed civilians, both accidentally (the AA shot that landed in Poland) and intentionally (any Crimean bridge strike, potentially... and I'm sure blowing up Russian ammo depots in towns and cities has collateral damage).
It's war, that will always happen.
Ukraine's killed less civilians...mainly because the fighting has been limited 99% to their own borders b/c US won't let them counter-invade Russia to take out production facilities and aircraft/artillery launch sites. If Ukraine could go gloves-off, there'd be way more Russian civilians dying, and whether you think it's right or not...after the horrors Russia inflicted maliciously and intentionally on their own civilians...there would absolutely be some revenge on the mind.

The left is able to recognize Ukraine's need to blow up civilian infrastructure being used for military purposes. No one was saying, "oh those poor Russian civilians that were on the bridge when they blew it up!"

One country is committing a genocide, the other country is having a genocide committed against it. There are no contradictions here except or those who support both.

I don't care what America spends it's bloated military budget on.

faizan_faizan posted...

Are you sure about that?

For the most part Ukraine is fighting in its borders. While I am sure some Ukraine civilians have died in the crossfire it's not the same thing.

People need to remember Israel is surrounding by multiple Middle Eastern countries who want the destruction of Israel, have tried invading multiple times, and funds Hamas and Hezbollah millions of dollars as well as weapons of war such as ballistic missiles.

If the US had no bases in Israel we wouldn't give a fuck about them.

Ronaldo posted...

People need to remember Israel is surrounding by multiple Middle Eastern countries who want the destruction of Israel, have tried invading multiple times, and funds Hamas and Hezbollah millions of dollars as well as weapons of war such as ballistic missiles.

That doesn't justify their attempts to wipe out Palestinians. Two wrongs don't make a right. I support Israel's right to exist and have no problem with them defending themselves. However that doesn't mean they are justified in all their actions.

Ronaldo posted...

People need to remember Israel is surrounding by multiple Middle Eastern countries who want the destruction of Israel, have tried invading multiple times, and funds Hamas and Hezbollah millions of dollars as well as weapons of war such as ballistic missiles.

There's a difference in giving money for self defense and giving money for genocide.

ironman2009 posted...

If the US had no bases in Israel we wouldn't give a fuck about them.

If Fundamental Christians didn't need Israel to exist for the End times to happen, any if those Christians didn't have as much influence over the government, then they wouldn't give a fuck about it.

Israel needs to exist until the time is right for it to be destroyed at the start of the end times.

Ronaldo posted...

People need to remember Israel is surrounding by multiple Middle Eastern countries who want the destruction of Israel, have tried invading multiple times, and funds Hamas and Hezbollah millions of dollars as well as weapons of war such as ballistic missiles.

People need to remember Israel have also invaded and funded Hamas.

Ricemills posted...

There's a difference in giving money for self defense and giving money for genocide.

According to Wikipedia, the population growth rate in the Gaza Strip is the 13th highest in the world. So either Israel is doing a horrible job at their "genocide" or you are throwing around extreme hyperbole which isn't helpful for either side of the issue. Or maybe you don't know what genocide means.

There's like 5 politicians that don't want to fund Israel.

Nearly every republican doesn't want to fund Ukraine.

Ukraine is being invaded.

Israel is continuing a holy war with Hamas and has been trading human rights atrocities for years.

kelemvor posted...

According to Wikipedia, the population growth rate in the Gaza Strip is the 13th highest in the world. So either Israel is doing a horrible job at their "genocide" or you are throwing around extreme hyperbole which isn't helpful for either side of the issue. Or maybe you don't know what genocide means.

Half the population of Gaza is 14 or younger. Most adults end up dying. They keep pumping out kids, but then Israel wipes them out before they get very old

kelemvor posted...

According to Wikipedia, the population growth rate in the Gaza Strip is the 13th highest in the world. So either Israel is doing a horrible job at their "genocide" or you are throwing around extreme hyperbole which isn't helpful for either side of the issue. Or maybe you don't know what genocide means.

I bet you deny the LGBTQ genocide too because "LGBTQ people will still be born"

kelemvor posted...

According to Wikipedia, the population growth rate in the Gaza Strip is the 13th highest in the world. So either Israel is doing a horrible job at their "genocide" or you are throwing around extreme hyperbole which isn't helpful for either side of the issue. Or maybe you don't know what genocide means.

We had this semantic issue refuted over a hundred time, and you people still using it.

faizan_faizan posted...

Are you sure about that?

There's no practical doubt. War is messy.

I like how no one cares to mention that US has been giving Israel money FOR 80 YEARS

No.

Ukraine was invaded by an imperial power.

Israel was attacked by a terrorist group within a territory they occupy and are slowly attempting to claim through apartheid and settlement expansions.

creativerealms posted...

If Fundamental Christians didn't need Israel to exist for the End times to happen, any if those Christians didn't have as much influence over the government, then they wouldn't give a fuck about it.

Israel needs to exist until the time is right for it to be destroyed at the start of the end times.

Pretty sure it's this. Christian bs

kelemvor posted...

According to Wikipedia, the population growth rate in the Gaza Strip is the 13th highest in the world. So either Israel is doing a horrible job at their "genocide" or you are throwing around extreme hyperbole which isn't helpful for either side of the issue. Or maybe you don't know what genocide means.

They are pumping out kids to try to stay alive.

whitelytning posted...

Both countries are fighting for their survival.

Hahahahahaha

Ronaldo posted...

People need to remember Israel is surrounding by multiple Middle Eastern countries who want the destruction of Israel, have tried invading multiple times, and funds Hamas and Hezbollah millions of dollars as well as weapons of war such as ballistic missiles.

Which Middle Eastern countries? Iran and Syria? Because pretty much all the rest are paid off to not care and have made moves to normalize relations (see Saudi Arabia for the latest).

creativerealms posted...

For the most part Ukraine is fighting in its borders. While I am sure some Ukraine civilians have died in the crossfire it's not the same thing.

Streamofthesky explained it perfectly.

Also, every single war ever has had war crimes committed by both sides.

This seems like what should be a commonsense compromise to me. Large segments of the left don't want Israeli aid, large segments of the right don't want Ukrainian aid. So package them together so we both get what we want and don't want and we can move on to the next important issue.

Yet, commonsense is not so common anymore.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Me?

faizan_faizan posted...

Streamofthesky explained it perfectly.

Also, every single war ever has had war crimes committed by both sides.

Ukraine was invaded though. Israel and Hamas are both basically like Russia. There is a difference between "war is hell" and "funding the baddies"

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


My bad

And here I am thinking we should provide aid to both, as well as humanitarian aid to innocents. One side will think I'm a commie and the other will think I'm maga, but I don't care.

Israel and Ukraine do not compare.

The Israel government is not the victim, and what's disgusting is people who try to paint them as victims who deserve 100% support, and all of Israel's actions are justified.

The only victims in their conflict is BOTH the Palestinian and Israeli citizens.

Foppe posted...

Both countries kill civilians... wait a minute!

Any truth to the Ukrainian army being full of neo-nazis?

i was scoping a sub-reddit back when the war was fresh and read multiple comments outlining such.

WalkingPlague posted...

Any truth to the Ukrainian army being full of neo-nazis?

i was scoping a sub-reddit back when the war was fresh and read multiple comments outlining such.

Not full of, there are nazi units though.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


No, I dont.

whitelytning posted...

Both countries were attacked.

One country was attacked by on paper one of the strongest militaries in the world from the outside, the other was attacked by a terrorist group from a territory that they are illegally occupying. While I'm not going to pretend that Hamas isn't explicitly anti semetic, these situations are not the same.

Both countries are fighting for their survival.

Israel is not fighting against Hamas for their survival, what an absurd thing to say. The reason Hamas employs terrorist attacks is because they have literally no chance in a straight up fight.

Israel pretty much dictates US foreign policy at this point, whether Americans like to admit it or not.

Israel is indeed fighting for its life. Having said that, Ukraine needs it so much more.

hockeybub89 posted...

Ukraine was invaded though. Israel and Hamas are both basically like Russia. There is a difference between "war is hell" and "funding the baddies"

I don't know the specifics of the geopolitical dynamics at play. But history has shown that it wouldn't be a war without a war crime.

whitelytning posted...

Anyone else find it odd that both parties have weird contradictions when it comes to providing aid.

No.

whitelytning posted...

Large segments of the right dont want to continue to aid Ukraine but have no problems sending it to Israel.

Russia is a political ally of the Republican party, Palestine is not.

whitelytning posted...

Large segments of the left want to continue to aid Ukraine but dont want to send it to Israel.

Ukraine would be defeated without US aid, Israel would not.

Also debatably, Israel's role in its conflict is closer to Russia's role. Yes Israel was attacked by Hamas but that's following military actions it's taken against Palestine over the years.

whitelytning posted...

Both countries were attacked.

What a false equivalence. Israel was attacked by terrorists, Ukraine was invaded, by an actual military with an actual goal of conquering Ukraine. Bear in mind, this is still an incredibly charitable description of Israel's situation.

Both countries were/are US allies.

Israel should not be a US ally.

Both countries are fighting for their survival.

Again, not the same thing at all?

Both countries pose important interests for the US.

Maybe the US should try vesting their interest in a middle-eastern state that isn't as shitty as Israel

Seems like the more consistent position would be to support aid to US interests or not.

"We should provide aid to a country fighting a defensive war against an imperial military, we shouldn't provide aid to a colonial apartheid state who are committing ethnic cleansing" is a perfectly consistent position

Anyone else find it odd that both parties have weird contradictions when it comes to providing aid.

Of course. What a naive statement

Shit.

Why has no one been reporting on Ukraine keeping Russia in an open air prison, regularly killing their children, peaceful protestors and any foreigner who speaks up for them.

Someone should also have said something when Ukraine denied the movement of supplies into Russia or kept taking Russian land and stole people's homes.

Oh wait.

Shut the fuck up.

Returning_CEmen posted...

I dont think Israel is fighting for its life

This. Israel has enough money to defend itself from Hamas.

whitelytning posted...

Both countries are fighting for their survival.

Ehhhh, no. That'd be like saying post 9/11 USA was "fighting for its survival".

Thats bullshit propaganda.