Poll of the Day > Due to Israeli-Palestinian ceasefire... Israel bombs Iranian consulate in Syria

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-bombs-iran-embassy-syria-iranian-commanders-among-dead-2024-04-01/

I wouldn't say that this is due to the Israeli-Palestinian ceasefire. also, what ceasefire?

ReturnOfFa posted...

I wouldn't say that this is due to the Israeli-Palestinian ceasefire. also, what ceasefire?

oh, right - it didn't go through; china/russia vetoed it

They didn't even tell America lol

Sure happened to be a lot of Iranian Revolutionary Guard in a civilian building....

Gentle reminder that the IRG aren't even the actual Iranian military, they're specifically a paramilitary force for the religious extremist factions to send abroad to fund, train, and support terror operations against Jews and Americans

Lok gonna Lok.

I only read the headlines, any news that can't be summarized in a headline is something of real importance

israel bombed seven world central kitchen workers earlier too

israel's not even claiming they were hamas (only the driver was actually palestinian), they just said oopsie our bad

agesboy posted...

israel's not even claiming they were hamas (only the driver was actually palestinian), they just said oopsie our bad

We should totally be outraged. After all, it's not like the US would ever do anything like that.







https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_United_States_bombing_of_Libya#The_raid
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_during_Operation_Allied_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Granai_airstrike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz_hospital_airstrike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Sangin_airstrike
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_U.S._airstrike_in_Baghuz



Sometimes, like it or not, when you're at war, you're going to hit some civilian targets by accident.

And sometimes, when your enemies deliberately hide in schools, hospitals, and other civilian areas, then civilians are going to get bombed.

Terrorists literally hide in those places because they're trying to provoke exactly that response, to generate manufactured outrage. And because they generally don't give a shit about innocent lives if it nets a PR win. Collateral damage. Can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs.

It's not really a news flash that a kind of sucks for people stuck in the middle of one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_during_Operation_Allied_Force
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualties_in_the_war_in_Afghanistan_(2001%E2%80%932021)

ParanoidObsessive posted...

We should totally be outraged. After all, it's not like the US would ever do anything like that.

I think you're misunderstanding me here. The reason Israel thinks it has carte blanche to commit war crimes is because of the US, which is ultimately just at fault for the ongoing slaughter as Netenyahu's administration

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Sometimes, like it or not, when you're at war, you're going to hit some civilian targets by accident.

These were three vehicles, separated over a distance of two kilometers, which were in direct contact with the IDF relaying their location (and going exactly where the IDF instructed), in vehicles clearly marked by for humanitarian aid. They were all struck at the same time

It was multiple guided missiles, each vehicle received multiple hits and it wasn't like just shrapnel hitting the surrounding. This was an intentional effort to speed up the starvation in Gaza, as one of the largest humanitarian aid organizations was forced to cease operations temporarily

There is no plausible deniability in this specific situation. It's actually horrific and you should look up what happened before you repeat IDF talking points

Lokarin posted...

oh, right - it didn't go through; china/russia vetoed it

A subsequent one did pass, much to Israel's outrage.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

Sometimes, like it or not, when you're at war, you're going to hit some civilian targets by accident.

Considering Israel's actions in this war, up to and including killing three of their own hostages who were waving a white flag and yelling for help in Hebrew, this *really* strains the definition of "by accident".

Or, to put it another way, if I get in my car, point it at a busy intersection, put on a blindfold and floor the gas, I might not have intended to run over the pedestrians I wind up killing, but calling it an "accident" would be a stretch worthy of Gumby.

Imagine if the war on drugs was handled this way, drone strike a French restaruant cuz 'meh, france is, like, close to spain... .... ehhh, right?'

ParanoidObsessive posted...

After all, it's not like the US would ever do anything like that.

In less than 6 months, Israel has racked up about 30-40% of the civilian death toll that the US managed in 20 years post-9/11, and in that time the US managed to kill more enemy combatants than civilians, while I'm not sure Israel's even broken triple digits yet. To equivocate what were largely accidents (albeit careless accidents for which the US deserves ample criticism) to what Israel is doing now is either staggeringly ignorant or a deliberate pro-genocide statement. Take your pick.

adjl posted...

In less than 6 months, Israel has racked up about 30-40% of the civilian death toll that the US managed in 20 years post-9/11, and in that time the US managed to kill more enemy combatants than civilians, while I'm not sure Israel's even broken triple digits yet. To equivocate what were largely accidents (albeit careless accidents for which the US deserves ample criticism) to what Israel is doing now is either staggeringly ignorant or a deliberate pro-genocide statement. Take your pick.

Israel has lost ~ 600 IDF soldiers thus far in <6 months of fighting.
America lost 2459 military deaths in two decades in Afghanistan.
Israel has racked up 25% of the combat death toll that the US managed in 20 years in Afghanistan, in less than 6 months.

Weird how you only like to compare figures when you think it'll help your case and ignore the rest.
It's almost like urban combat in one of the most densely populated regions on Earth w/ enemies that hide amongst the civilian population is really fucking difficult.
At least in Afghanistan the enemy was mostly relegated to isolated caves/mountains and not 100% embedded in the urban populace.

And implying Israel "hasn't even broken triple digits yet" for enemy combatants is either staggeringly ignorant or a deliberate pro-Hamas statement. Take your pick.

streamofthesky posted...

Israel has lost ~ 600 IDF soldiers thus far in <6 months of fighting.

yeah maybe they should try taking it slower and be more careful, because they're getting their own soldiers killed needlessly in their rush to wipe out gaza

but netenyahu is rushing the war because as soon as it ends, he's getting removed from power and probably thrown in jail. it's probably the main reason for escalating tensions with syria/iran earlier. if he starts WW3 he gets to stay in power for the whole thing!

streamofthesky posted...

Israel has lost ~ 600 IDF soldiers thus far in <6 months of fighting.
America lost 2459 military deaths in two decades in Afghanistan.
Israel has racked up 25% of the combat death toll that the US managed in 20 years in Afghanistan, in less than 6 months.

Weird how you only like to compare figures when you think it'll help your case and ignore the rest.

Oh, if we only look at Afghanistan, Israel's already killed more civilians than the US did there. No contest. I can't be bothered to dredge the stats up again, but I'm pretty sure the total civilian deaths in Afghanistan were in the realm of 20-25k (to ~40k combatants). When I say "20 years post-9/11," I'm talking about Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and every other middle-eastern country caught up in the fallout of the War on Terror, combined.

streamofthesky posted...

And implying Israel "hasn't even broken triple digits yet" for enemy combatants is either staggeringly ignorant or a deliberate pro-Hamas statement. Take your pick.

If they have, I'll welcome the correction. Last I heard, they'd managed 13 Hamas kills for 8000 civilian deaths, but that was obviously a while ago because they're pushing 40,000 civilians now. If they follow the same ratio (which is to be expected given that they've continued to bomb indiscriminately and deliberately engineer humanitarian crises, none of which suggests that they've been taking enough accountability for that piss-poor ratio to pretend it's not just deliberate genocide), that'd put them at about 55-60ish, which is sub-triple digits.

One small correction for you, though: It's a deliberate anti-Israel statement (specifically anti-current Israeli government, since I recognize that most Israeli citizens are not complicit in this genocide), not a pro-Hamas one. Hamas is also bad. Israel is just measurably the worse of two evils at this moment, plus the one that people seem to need to be convinced is doing bad things and therefore shouldn't be given weaponry that they're shooting at humanitarian aid caravans. I don't really need to convince anyone that blowing up 1200 civilians was a bad thing, so I'm not putting any effort into that.

streamofthesky posted...

It's almost like urban combat in one of the most densely populated regions on Earth w/ enemies that hide amongst the civilian population is really f***ing difficult.

And the solution to that challenge is not to just blow everything up with no regard for the number of innocent civilians killed in doing so. Collateral damage happens, yes, and this is a scenario where it's particularly difficult to avoid, but that does not even remotely justify completely giving up on avoiding it the way Israel has. Of course, with a government that has spent years spouting rhetoric along the lines of "there are no innocent Palestinians," "these people are animals, why shouldn't we kill them?", and "nuking Gaza is not off the table," why would anyone believe that they even tried to avoid it in the first place?

streamofthesky posted...

It's almost like urban combat in one of the most densely populated regions on Earth w/ enemies that hide amongst the civilian population is really fucking difficult.

But genocide is apparently really easy!

adjl posted...

One small correction for you, though: It's a deliberate anti-Israel statement (specifically anti-current Israeli government, since I recognize that most Israeli citizens are not complicit in this genocide), not a pro-Hamas one. Hamas is also bad. Israel is just measurably the worse of two evils at this moment,

in the same way I condemn the US's currently unconditional support for Israel to be at fault for Israel's actions, I consider specifically Netenyahu's government to be significantly at fault for Hamas's existence tbh. he's outright stated he wanted a more extreme government in Gaza to politically divide Gaza and the West Bank as part of his strategy to see Israel have control "from the river to the sea" (a phrase he also says is antisemetic/genocidal, when spoken by anti-zionists)

https://twitter.com/nissimv/status/1711261388809568458 (just google translate it)

these kinds of people are currently deciding Israel's warpath and Gaza's future. it's genocidal rhetoric

agesboy posted...

in the same way I condemn the US's currently unconditional support for Israel to be at fault for Israel's actions, I consider specifically Netenyahu's government to be significantly at fault for Hamas's existence tbh.

I might argue even more so. The US enables Israel despite having the power to single-handedly dictate how aggressive they can be, certainly, and in that regard Netenyahu's support of Hamas to ensure he has a consistent enemy to exploit is comparable, but beyond that Israel's apartheid policies, aggressively antagonistic colonialism, and large-scale killing of Palestinian civilians are all very obviously things that breed discontent and radicalize people to terrorism. I'm not about to go so far as to call Hamas "freedom fighters" like some do, since that's glorifying them in a way they don't particularly deserve, but the fact remains that there is freedom for which Palestinians feel the need to fight, and that feeling is solely because Israel has denied it to them. Those who have freedom don't need to fight for it.

Would the Hamas problem go away if Israel started supporting Palestinian infrastructure restoration and development, stopped arbitrarily stealing land and inviting settlers to come from abroad to live on it, and stopped forcing Palestinians to spend hours waiting in line to cross checkpoints on the way to work every morning? Probably not. Hatred is a bitch to get rid of once it sinks its teeth in, and change and forgiveness don't happen overnight. But there'd be a whole lot less new anti-Israel sentiment among Palestinians moving forward, which means a whole lot fewer young people being radicalized and recruited by Hamas, which in turn means less violence.

Can the mods ban talking about Israel since discussions become unhinged

you've made multiple topics about israel yourself though

you just don't like it when they don't go your way

Devil_May_Cry posted...

Can the mods ban talking about Israel since discussions become unhinged

Hamas supporter spotted.

agesboy posted...

you've made multiple topics about israel yourself though

you just don't like it when they don't go your way

Every topic devolves into bashing Israel.

i am willing to do good faith intellectual and civil discourse.

in fact I was blocked by half of pod for even daring to defend Israel.

I am the least hinged

Devil_May_Cry posted...

i am willing to do good faith intellectual and civil discourse.

"Should mods ban anyone who votes for Donald Trump in 2024?", "Jon Stewart is evil and stupid", "Israeli soldier brutally killed by Hezbolllah", "Brave Israeli government officials confront the UN" are some of your recent-ish topics

(to be clear I think trump and hezbollah are terrible, but you're very much not interested in having a good faith both sides discourse, because all of your topics start from one angle of perceived moral superiority)

honestly if you want an echo chamber, go check out reddit/worldnews, except not right now because the sheer audacity of the most recent attack on aid workers has managed to overpower the pro-israel bots. it'll probably be back to normal in a few days

Devil_May_Cry posted...

Every topic devolves into bashing Israel.

With good reason. Netenyahu is a genocidal maniac.

Look, Israel is great - Palestine is great

What's bad is killing civilians; can we agree that killing civilians is bad?

Lokarin posted...

Look, Israel is great - Palestine is great

What's bad is killing civilians; can we agree that killing civilians is bad?

Precisely. People that aren't antisemitic wastes of carbon aren't bashing Israel as a whole, they're bashing the genocidal actions of Israel's government. That should be clear from both contextual clues and the many times Mr. Cry has been explicitly told this.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

good faith intellectual and civil discourse.

lol

adjl posted...

With good reason. Netenyahu is a genocidal maniac.

There you go again Godwin's law. What is happening in Palestine is not a genocide or an attempted genocide.
They are trying to eradicate terrorists. Now I dont think they are going about it in the best manner but that is Netanyahus government not the IDF or Israeli civilians.

have you all met an actual Israeli before? Great people. I like Palestinians too. I guarantee Israelis reading gamefaqs are crying about how hateful you all can be.

https://youtu.be/1QWDdIdxC5k?si=-e9mvEDyOZA0FM0i

Devil_May_Cry posted...

What is happening in Palestine is not a genocide or an attempted genocide.

It literally is tho

Devil_May_Cry posted...

There you go again Godwin's law.

That's not Godwin's law. The Holocaust is not the only historical genocide.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

What is happening in Palestine is not a genocide or an attempted genocide.

How else would you describe the wholesale massacre of civilians, destruction of critical infrastructure, and clear, deliberate efforts to engineer a humanitarian crisis that is leading to the starvation of hundreds of thousands of people?

Devil_May_Cry posted...

They are trying to eradicate terrorists.

With zero regard for the number of innocent civilians killed as a result, shortly following rhetoric such as "there are no innocent Palestinians" that means you'd have to be quite hopelessly naive to believe that those civilians deaths are accidental.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

I guarantee Israelis reading gamefaqs are crying about how hateful you all can be.

adjl posted...

People that aren't antisemitic wastes of carbon aren't bashing Israel as a whole, they're bashing the genocidal actions of Israel's government. That should be clear from both contextual clues and the many times Mr. Cry has been explicitly told this.

Oh look I already said that. Again. And again. And again. And again... What is the difficulty you have understanding this?

https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1775948208935461163

they're firing on civilians trying to open humanitarian aid air drops

Devil_May_Cry posted...

i am willing to do good faith intellectual and civil discourse.

You have proven time and time again that you are arguing in bad faith to make leftists look bad. Leave this board, you're a waste of space.

Israel has over the course of many years, fenced in a population, controlled where they can go, seized control of their water, food, and electricity, and now shut it off because "we have to stop the terrorists" and now tens of thousands of civs are dead and literal MILLIONS are either starving or on the brink of starvation.

Yes, this is genocide. That there are terrorists does not magically make this not genocide.

https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/middleeast/100000009392733/al-shifa-hospital-raid-before-after.html (thankfully somehow not paywalled)

literally looks like nukes were dropped or hundreds of years passed due to some calamity

agesboy posted...

https://twitter.com/RamAbdu/status/1775948208935461163

they're firing on civilians trying to open humanitarian aid air drops

There could be weapons in the crates. IDF is just acting on security intel.

Biden is a great president. Vote for him. He was VP to the first black president. Stop saying he is supporting a genocide. He is supporting the more moral side in a fucking war

Devil_May_Cry posted...

There could be weapons in the crates. IDF is just acting on security intel.

Biden is a great president. Vote for him. He was VP to the first black president. Stop saying he is supporting a genocide. He is supporting the more moral side in a fucking war

Is it illegal for a civilian in Gaza to merely own a gun? (No, actually, no permit is required in Gaza, although you do need a permit in the West Bank)

Does merely touching a gun make you a combatant? (No)

Is it illegal to deliver weapons in humanitarian aid air drops? (Yes, both by the Geneva Convention, the ICRC and pressure from the Red Cross and Red Crescent) EDIT: So if the IDF seized the shipments and found arms they'd have a major political advantage

Lokarin posted...

Is it illegal for a civilian in Gaza to merely own a gun? (No, actually, no permit is required in Gaza, although you do need a permit in the West Bank)

Does merely touching a gun make you a combatant? (No)

Is it illegal to deliver weapons in humanitarian aid air drops? (Yes, both by the Geneva Convention, the ICRC and pressure from the Red Cross and Red Crescent) EDIT: So if the IDF seized the shipments and found arms they'd have a major political advantage

I am sure Israel will uncover more of Hamass atrocious acts. I pray every day the proof is uncovered to redeem Israel on the global stage.

until then I am asking consideration for the feelings of Israeli visitors to this site who may be experiencing heart break seeing their favorite posters attack their country

IDF received reports that children might actually be bundles of explosives in disguise.

Zareth posted...

IDF received reports that children might actually be bundles of explosives in disguise.

I witnessed white supremacists using Palestinians deaths to bully innocent American Jews into tears

Lets be real. The Israeli/Palestinian conflict does not involve us Americans. We need to stay out of it and fight the greatest threat to humanity in America. White supremacists and their abundance of hate crimes must be stopped if we even want a two state solution in the future. White supremacists find both sides and fan the flames of hate.

Sometimes I wonder if a three state solution would work, since Gaza and the West Bank have been separated for so long they may be culturally distinct.

I simply don't know.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

There could be weapons in the crates.

Next time I'm in the grocery store, maybe I should camp out in the cereal aisle and shoot anyone that reaches for a box. There might be weapons in those boxes, after all. You can't be too careful.

Humanitarian aid drops don't fall out of the sky without warning. There's extensive notice that they're coming, allowing the victims to receive them and - specifically relevant to this situation - to prevent the aggressor from shooting them down or shooting at victims trying to claim them. There's no room to frame this as though a bunch of mystery boxes appeared out of nowhere without documentation. Heck, I have more reason to be concerned that a random cereal box on a shelf contains weaponry than Israel has to be concerned about those aid drops, because I have less access to supply chain data than they do.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

I pray every day the proof is uncovered to redeem Israel on the global stage.

"Everything about this situation makes them look like the worse guys, but they're my favourite so I keep hoping that something happens to make them look better."

That's not how evaluating situations works. Look at the evidence, form your opinion based on that. Deciding on an opinion, then looking for evidence to support it and ignoring evidence that suggests you're wrong is just confirmation bias taken to the extreme.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

He is supporting the more moral side in a f***ing war

"More moral" by what metrics?

Devil_May_Cry posted...

until then I am asking consideration for the feelings of Israeli visitors to this site who may be experiencing heart break seeing their favorite posters attack their country

Their country is an apartheid state engaging in genocide. I'm more concerned about the feelings of the oppressed people that state is openly murdering than about the feelings of people that are having to deal with any nationalistic pride they had being horribly misplaced. Once again, this does not mean attacking Israeli citizens for the actions of their government, but attacking Israel on a political scale is absolutely fair game. We've justified this extensively, you've hand-waved every justification and vaguely whined about "feelings" as though anyone in their right mind is ever going to say "well, I guess we should let Israel commit genocide because some Israeli people might be sad if we're too critical of that."

Let's all just report Devil and move on.
Maybe we'll get lucky and he won't immediately come back with another alt.

https://youtu.be/ZeFJkGfaoxs?si=PH-XQ_rwxuieHuJl

Same old tired slandering of Israel as the clown in this video who went into hiding out of guilt.

do you have some scholarly sources or reputable news to share because that just looks like clickbait

I'm not clicking on something called "Headlies" and polluting my youtube feed

adjl posted...

"More moral" by what metrics?

well there is a constant barrage of rockets and hell fire that the iron dome must contend with.

Hamas is literally pure evil, collateral damage sucks but its part of war. Do you weep for German citizens that got killed in the Dresden bombings fighting the Nazis?
Again Hamas is responsible for the wholesale slaughter in Gaza. Their guerrilla warfare tactics and ruthlessness makes this battle gruesome.

Israel is Americas number one ally and I pray everyday before I go to bed and when I wake up that this stays this way.

i also pray that Palestinians find him peace and happiness. To do that Hamas must be eradicated

Devil_May_Cry posted...

Do you weep for German citizens that got killed in the Dresden bombings fighting the Nazis?

First of all, yes.

Secondly, this is more like if America decided to bomb Leipzig, which had no tactical significance and was refuge to anti-nazi germans who were fleeing the war... and if they did it in 1950, through to 1974.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

Do you weep for German citizens that got killed in the Dresden bombings fighting the Nazis?

Yes, and those killed fewer civilians and more combatants than Israel has since October.

Collateral damage happens, certainly, but everyone has a responsibility to minimize it. Israel hasn't, and is instead acting in a manner that leaves zero doubt that they not only couldn't care less about avoiding Palestinian civilian casualties, but are actively trying to effect them.

Devil_May_Cry posted...

I pray every day the proof is uncovered to redeem Israel on the global stage.

Might as well pray for the US to uncover those WMDs in Iraq while you're at it...