Current Events > If Biden loses the election, he has nobody to blame but himself

(+) Yeah! (+)

creativerealms posted...

One terrible thing vs that same terrible thing and a hundred other terrible things. Trump will support Israel as much if not more then Biden.

but we can forgive Trump because ???

"The other guy will genocide harder" will never be a winning strategy. If you actually give a shit about Palestinians instead of blindly defending Biden, go out and get him to change his stance. I've been to half a dozen or so pro-Palestinian protests this year. You can see the public perception on the issue change in real time. 7 months is a long time. Send the fucker a message.

1337toothbrush posted...

No, because I didn't say both sides are the same. No one has said both sides are the same. You're just hamfistedly ignoring the actual point of "biden shouldn't support genocide" in favor of the "both sides" strawman.

@1337toothbrush

maybe he shouldn't support them but you will still vote for him over Trump right?
right?

RIGHT?????

LightningThief posted...

I'm stealing this.

You and all the other online democrat operatives. I've seen this image posted all over the place near instantly. It's almost like it's part of a coordinated PR campaign, fresh from the asses of the democrat marketing department.

For the record it's not just the US who's being glib about what's going on over there.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-68721384

The Liberal Democrats, Scottish National Party (SNP) and a former UK national security adviser are calling for sales to be suspended now.

Labour says sales must stop if government lawyers believe Israel risks breaching international law.

The prime minister says the UK has a "very careful" arms licensing regime.

Speaking to the Sun, he called for an independent investigation into the Israeli strike, but stopped short of saying arms sales should end.

Non-committal pleasantries even though the obvious path should be clear as day. Trying to have it both ways. I really don't understand what makes Israel so important that the willingness to commit to cracking down on them is so hard to actually follow through on.

WingsOfGood posted...

@1337toothbrush

maybe he shouldn't support them but you will still vote for him over Trump right?
right?

RIGHT?????

Yeah, like I've said a trillion times. I vote democrat straight down the ballot every single time. I should still be allowed to criticize them without people jumping down my throat.

1337toothbrush posted...

It's almost like it's part of a coordinated PR campaign, fresh from the asses of the democrat marketing department.

Lmfao delusional

1337toothbrush posted...

Yeah, like I've said a trillion times. I vote democrat straight down the ballot every single time. I should still be allowed to criticize them without people jumping down my throat.

1337toothbrush posted...

You and all the other online democrat operatives.

Y-y-you vote Democrat? Yet you claim this was made by a PR operative?

what even

GrandConjuraton posted...

Implying Biden could lose because of the Israel situation seems like a low IQ take.

Nah, everyone knows this literally the only issue in this election and not an excuse people who wouldnt otherwise care are using to justify not voting this time.

WingsOfGood posted...

Y-y-you vote Democrat? Yet you claim this was made by a PR operative?

what even

You don't think democrats have a PR team that posts things online? That I've seen this slick new graphic posted all over the place instantly makes it look like a coordinated PR campaign. That's all I'm saying. It shouldn't distract from the fact that democrats are supporting a genocide.

I'll keep this sentiment in mind for comfort when Trump and the Republicans have a blank check to do whatever they want to queer people, minorities, women seeking abortion, workers seeking to organize, etc.

At least we showed Biden, nice job team

Garioshi posted...

Who is saying this in this topic

Anyone who responds to reasons to vote for Biden with OH SO YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE?

Kaldrenthebold posted...

It was in the UN resolution that was just vetoed by Russia and China.

https://www.msn.com/en-sg/news/world/russia-china-veto-us-led-un-resolution-on-gaza-ceasefire/ar-BB1ko3ZR

A UN resolution has already passed. This is irrelevant.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

Also Hamas just rejected another ceasfire:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-official-says-no-progress-in-ceasefire-talks-despite-the-movement-s-flexibility/ar-BB1l4L6u

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/773b1bca.png
This is very clearly Israel rejecting a ceasefire, not Hamas. Do you even read your own articles?

Kaldrenthebold posted...

And yes, it turns out, Israel is an ally and we have literal DECADES of foreign policy with arms sales to them. This surprises you?

Okay, hear me out: What if we DON'T provide weapons to a country that we know will use them to indiscriminately slaughter anyone and everyone in Gaza? What if, and stay with me on this, we actually use the fact that Israel relies on us for weapons to make them STOP carpet bombing babies, by not selling them any more weapons until they stop perpetrating a genocide?

Gwynevere posted...

I'll keep this sentiment in mind for comfort when Trump and the Republicans have a blank check to do whatever they want to queer people, minorities, women seeking abortion, workers seeking to organize, etc.

At least we showed Biden, nice job team

Really makes you think why biden loves genocide so much as to refuse to stop supporting it so that he can get the votes to stop the republicans from doing those things.

Smashingpmkns posted...

"The other guy will genocide harder" will never be a winning strategy. If you actually give a shit about Palestinians instead of blindly defending Biden, go out and get him to change his stance. I've been to half a dozen or so pro-Palestinian protests this year. You can see the public perception on the issue change in real time. 7 months is a long time. Send the fucker a message.

What you are saying, isn't sending the message you think you are sending.

Let's entertain your argument that Biden is pro genocide.

No matter what, either Biden or Trump is going to win. No matter what. You staying home or voting 3rd party isn't going to help Palestinians. Worse, it's going to do far more harm to Muslims here in the United States. Trump and his sycophants have openly proclaimed they want to make life for Muslims and Palestinians worse here in the United States.

The only message that you are sending is you are okay if Trump actively tries to make life much worse for Muslims and Palestinians. Setting up the stage for a 2029 or 2033 President of the United States and Congress to have a tougher time reversing any policies from 2025 to 2028. A big if, on there might not even be an actual election in 2028, given Project 2025 clearly details how they plan to install Dear Leader Trump to be dictator to usher in Christian Fascism values across America.

That message you speak of "it doesn't matter who wins" isn't actually helpful to Muslims or Palestinians here in America. It also certainly isn't helpful to them over in Gaza either.

1337toothbrush posted...

That I've seen this slick new graphic posted all over the place

Someone probably just ai generated it and posted it on reddit where it got popular. Get a fucking grip.

Not everything is a soros plot to rig Bernie Sanders out of the election.

McMarbles posted...

Anyone who responds to reasons to vote for Biden with OH SO YOU SUPPORT GENOCIDE?

I just wish trying to criticize Biden didn't come with the implication of voting for Trump. I have no interest in voting for Trump but I want to address how disappointed I am in Biden's flimsy commitment to justice for Palestine.

1337toothbrush posted...

You don't think democrats have a PR team that posts things online? That I've seen this slick new graphic posted all over the place instantly makes it look like a coordinated PR campaign. That's all I'm saying. It shouldn't distract from the fact that democrats are supporting a genocide.

or maybe some random dude made the picture after seeing a stupid 500 posts thread about how Biden will lose to DONAL TRUMP because Isreal and everyone else who had similar experience saw the image and was like "GOLD" and shared it?

not plausible?

Solid_Sonic posted...

I just wish trying to criticize Biden didn't come with the implication of voting for Trump. I have no interest in voting for Trump but I want to address how disappointed I am in Biden's flimsy commitment to justice for Palestine.

You can do that.

But this thread is TITLED:
If Biden loses the election

Garioshi posted...

A UN resolution has already passed. This is irrelevant.

I'm sorry, US leading a UN resolution on a ceasefire in Gaza...means Biden supports genocide? That's really weird, didn't think that is how it worked.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/773b1bca.png
This is very clearly Israel rejecting a ceasefire, not Hamas. Do you even read your own articles?

Yes Hamas says "leave Gaza we stay in power and maybe you'll get hostages". Sounds like such a good deal. Hey, let's negotiate. You give me your house and money, and I'll stop posting to you. Deal? Sounds great.

I also like that the clip you posted says directly, US is backing these talks. Guess US IS trying to do a ceasefire, eh?

Okay, hear me out: What if we DON'T provide weapons to a country that we know will use them to indiscriminately slaughter anyone and everyone in Gaza? What if, and stay with me on this, we actually use the fact that Israel relies on us for weapons to make them STOP carpet bombing babies, by not selling them any more weapons until they stop perpetrating a genocide?

What if, imagine this, we had a system of elections called primaries where, now hold on, we can vote in people we want to represent us? What if, wild idea, we can start at a local level and install people that we agree with and filter that up towards the top? Cause, now understand this, decades of foreign policy is not something that can flip a switch like that.

Also, congress controls the purse strings. So again, elect people locally that will do what you please.

WingsOfGood posted...

or maybe some random dude made the picture after seeing a stupid 500 posts thread about how Biden will lose to DONAL TRUMP because Isreal and everyone else who had similar experience saw the image and was like "GOLD" and shared it?

not plausible?

The argument is "biden shouldn't support genocide" and this image is being spammed to pretend the argument is "both sides are the same".

Smashingpmkns posted...

If you actually give a shit about Palestinians instead of blindly defending Biden,

I mean if that's the logic you want to use, then it follows that anyone complicit in handing Republicans a W don't give a shit about any of the people that they're waiting to take aim at nationwide when they get the chance

Which is honestly probably true when it comes down to it

1337toothbrush posted...

You and all the other online democrat operatives. I've seen this image posted all over the place near instantly. It's almost like it's part of a coordinated PR campaign, fresh from the asses of the democrat marketing department.

Are you claiming anyone who post that meme is part of some deep coordination cabal or something?

Youre hitting conspiracy nut levels if this is your angle.

How does Biden losing help Palestine?

1337toothbrush posted...

The argument is "biden shouldn't support genocide" and this image is being spammed to pretend the argument is "both sides are the same".

This thread is about voting Trump over Biden or refusing to vote.

It isn't about just telling Biden he should do x or y.

So the image is PERFECT.

It shows people are forgiving and putting wool over their eyes to how disgusting Trump is to simply criticize Biden on one point that Trump is gonna do even worse.

Here comes ""centerist"" toothbrush to wag his finger at Democrats again.

Smashingpmkns posted...

"The other guy will genocide harder" will never be a winning strategy. If you actually give a shit about Palestinians instead of blindly defending Biden, go out and get him to change his stance. I've been to half a dozen or so pro-Palestinian protests this year. You can see the public perception on the issue change in real time. 7 months is a long time. Send the fucker a message.

You can't change his stance without changing the stance of everyone else first. I wish people understood this.

LightningThief posted...

Are you claiming anyone who post that meme is part of some deep coordination cabal or something?

Youre hitting conspiracy nut levels if this is your angle.

Keep it going I want to see him meltdown about Bernie losing in 2016 again

SaikyoStyle posted...

How does Biden losing help Palestine?

It doesn't. At all.

WingsOfGood posted...

You can do that.

Can I really, though? To me it seems as risky as playing devil's advocate on this board where you just get labeled "chud" for going down that path even though you're simply expressing a thought or counterpoint that should be raised in a complete discussion and not a stance or validating something.

Like sometimes I think the people here generally forget how to think critically and respond from the most volatile portion of their mind. There is genuinely a poor standard of argument and discourse on CE. Even trying to speak out against how discussions around here play out feels like putting a target on myself and dismissed as someone who "frequently gets owned for their bad faith takes."

Add to that the propensity for users around here to tag others based on single interactions as "being [THAT]" so they immediately believe a reputation can be built from one exchange of thoughts.

Kaldrenthebold posted...

I'm sorry, US leading a UN resolution on a ceasefire in Gaza...means Biden supports genocide? That's really weird, didn't think that is how it worked.

Yes Hamas says "leave Gaza we stay in power and maybe you'll get hostages". Sounds like such a good deal. Hey, let's negotiate. You give me your house and money, and I'll stop posting to you. Deal? Sounds great.

I also like that the clip you posted says directly, US is backing these talks. Guess US IS trying to do a ceasefire, eh?

What if, imagine this, we had a system of elections called primaries where, now hold on, we can vote in people we want to represent us? What if, wild idea, we can start at a local level and install people that we agree with and filter that up towards the top? Cause, now understand this, decades of foreign policy is not something that can flip a switch like that.

Also, congress controls the purse strings. So again, elect people locally that will do what you please.

This is so embarrassing to read if it was actually posted in good faith.

Solid_Sonic posted...

Can I really, though?

in the right thread, this one is not it

LightningThief posted...

Are you claiming anyone who post that meme is part of some deep coordination cabal or something?

Youre hitting conspiracy nut levels if this is your angle.

No one said anything about a cabal. You should try reading.

WingsOfGood posted...

This thread is about voting Trump over Biden or refusing to vote.

It isn't about just telling Biden he should do x or y.

So the image is PERFECT.

It shows people are forgiving and putting wool over their eyes to how disgusting Trump is to simply criticize Biden on one point that Trump is gonna do even worse.

This topic is about the general population of voters. They see a president who full-throatedly supports genocide. Are you that surprised they don't feel like putting in the effort to vote (no matter how small that effort may be)? They're not making calculated moves like you think. There is a very easy way around this, which is to *stop supporting genocide* which comes with the "side" benefit of *not supporting genocide*.

Umbreon posted...

Here comes ""centerist"" toothbrush to wag his finger at Democrats again.

Yes, here comes left-wing toothbrush to wag his finger at right-wing democrats over *their support of genocide*.

LightningThief posted...

What you are saying, isn't sending the message you think you are sending.

Let's entertain your argument that Biden is pro genocide.

No matter what, either Biden or Trump is going to win. No matter what. You staying home or voting 3rd party isn't going to help Palestinians. Worse, it's going to do far more harm to Muslims here in the United States. Trump and his sycophants have openly proclaimed they want to make life for Muslims and Palestinians worse here in the United States.

The only message that you are sending is you are okay if Trump actively tries to make life much worse for Muslims and Palestinians. Setting up the stage for a 2029 or 2033 President of the United States and Congress to have a tougher time reversing any policies from 2025 to 2028. A big if, on there might not even be an actual election in 2028, given Project 2025 clearly details how they plan to install Dear Leader Trump to be dictator to usher in Christian Fascism values across America.

That message you speak of "it doesn't matter who wins" isn't actually helpful to Muslims or Palestinians here in America. It also certainly isn't helpful to them over in Gaza either.

Protesting and showing support for Palestinians, making those crowds larger, is absolutely doing something.

You're saying a lot of shit that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said so I'm just gonna disregard it lmao

Dancedreamer posted...

You can't change his stance without changing the stance of everyone else first. I wish people understood this.

Americans want a ceasefire. Americans want America to stop sending weapons to Israel. There's polls on this shit. And even if they didn't the protests are for them too.

1337toothbrush posted...

This topic is about the general population of voters. They see a president who full-throatedly supports genocide. Are you that surprised they don't feel like putting in the effort to vote (no matter how small that effort may be)? They're not making calculated moves like you think. There is a very easy way around this, which is to *stop supporting genocide* which comes with the "side" benefit of *not supporting genocide*.

so are they criticizing Trump for supporting genocide or that is not an issue when it comes to him?

Smashingpmkns posted...

Protesting and showing support for Palestinians, making those crowds larger, is absolutely doing something.

Yea I loved the one where you guys chased that lady walking out of the Biden event in New York yelling antisemitic slurs at her.

Smashingpmkns posted...

"The other guy will genocide harder" will never be a winning strategy. If you actually give a shit about Palestinians instead of blindly defending Biden, go out and get him to change his stance. I've been to half a dozen or so pro-Palestinian protests this year. You can see the public perception on the issue change in real time. 7 months is a long time. Send the fucker a message.

But it's true. And this isn't about blindly supporting Biden. To me this is about pragmatism, this a about who will cause the less damage to America and the rest of the world. Of two terrible choices one is far less horrible.

When the choices are supporting Israel and while helping Americans or supporting Israel while screwing over countless groups of Americans the choice is easy for me.

Shadow_Don posted...

Yea I loved the one where you guys chased that lady walking out of the Biden event in New York yelling antisemitic slurs at her.

Cool I've never been to New York in my entire life. The protests here have been absolutely peaceful. Try going to one in your area.

No, he quite literally can blame the voters! They're the ones that determine it.

Garioshi posted...

This is so embarrassing to read if it was actually posted in good faith.

Likewise.

Question: do you think Trump would be backing ceasefires? Easy question to answer.

C_Pain posted...

No, he quite literally can blame the voters! They're the ones that determine it.

It's literally a politician's job to get votes. They're not owed votes.

Both candidates support the genocide but one wants to be the dictator of the US, it won't stop no matter what we do.

1337toothbrush posted...

It's literally a politician's job to get votes. They're not owed votes.

Nah, their job is to participate in government.

WingsOfGood posted...

so are they criticizing Trump for supporting genocide or that is not an issue when it comes to him?

If you haven't noticed, biden is the president. He's the one who can actually do something about this right now, or do you think the over a million Palestinians on the verge of starving to death can wait this out until after the election?

1337toothbrush posted...

It's literally a politician's job to get votes. They're not owed votes.

did he not earn the votes by doing everything he did and having as in that image just 2 books on the scale vs. the opposition which literally wants to make himself king?

No one is saying that Trump would be better
No one is saying to vote for Trump
No one is saying that they're equivalent

What a substantial number of people are saying is that Biden's actions are sickening and unacceptable, no matter what the other guy did or did not do. You wanna talk about reality? Well the reality is that voting is an affirmative act and one that people tend not to do if they feel disgusted by the very thought of it. And genocide facilitation tends to make people feel that way.

Another key element of reality is that Democrats win when the President is someone to vote FOR, and they most often lose when it's considered crap vs crap. The administration's current policy is walking directly into that. It's what happened in 2000, what happened in 2004, and what happened in 2016.

You're presenting it as "adults" vs "petulant children" but hold your nose and vote for the genocider is a losing stance. You're only ever going to squeak by with that and then you'll wonder why you don't have the power to do anything useful. If you don't lose outright. You take pride in holding your nose, but for others, that's everything they hate about politics. You are a very small group of people in how you view politics. You think accepting perpetual complicity in horror is a sign of maturity, others see it as...horror.

You are very lucky people don't actually accept the same assumptions you do, because if they did, Republicans would never lose. People vote because they think something good might happen, not that they're locked into terrible things and are trying to show they're "mature" by voting for a lighter shade of black.

GrandConjuraton posted...

Implying Biden could lose because of the Israel situation seems like a low IQ take.

a bit of Dunning Kreuger effect here I think...

Don't underestimate the importance of global conflicts, especially when there are American constituents that have a connection to that conflict like American Jews and Palestinians, anti-war and anti-apartheid leftists, as well as Christian Evangelicals.

All of these groups have voiced serious concerns over the conflict, so to say this isn't going to have impact is pretty short-sighted.

Mistakes made by a president absolutely hurt them, even if the opponent would've done the same or worse. Yeah, doesn't make much sense, but that's how it is.