Board 8 > Rate the Ace Attorney case: Turnabout Ablaze (E1-5)

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Rules:

1. Rate each case on a scale from 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest and 10 being the highest. Anything above 10 gets rounded down to a 10, and anything below a 1 gets rounded up to a 1.
2. Anything beyond one decimal point will be rounded accordingly: .04 and below will be rounded down, .05 and up will be rounded up.
3. You may grade on any criteria you like.
4. You can rate cases from previous topics if you miss a topic.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PiEuURt1qf19VoYzcFCU1EFa8uqs2teJiVcip7JmjDw/edit?usp=sharing

Previous Results:

Bridge to the Turnabout (3-5) - 9.8 (37 votes)
Farewell, My Turnabout (2-4) - 9.7 (30 votes)
Turnabout Goodbyes (1-4) - 9.2 (32 votes)
Turnabout Beginnings (3-4) - 8.4 (26 votes)
Rise from the Ashes (1-5) - 8.2 (28 votes)
The Stolen Turnabout (3-2) - 8.2 (24 votes)
Turnabout Samurai (1-3) - 7.4 (29 votes)
Turnabout Memories (3-1) - 7.4 (30 votes)
Turnabout Trump (4-1) - 6.9 (25 votes)
Recipe for Turnabout (3-3) - 6.6 (27 votes)
Reunion, and Turnabout (2-2) - 6.5 (25 votes)
Turnabout Sisters (1-2) - 5.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Reminiscence (E1-4) - 5.5 (21 votes)
Turnabout Visitor (E1-1) - 5.0 (19 votes)
The First Turnabout (1-1) - 4.9 (25 votes)
The Kidnapped Turnabout (E1-3) - 4.6 (21 votes)
Turnabout Airlines (E1-2) - 4.3 (21 votes)
Turnabout Corner (4-2) - 4.0 (25 votes)
Turnabout Big Top (2-3) - 3.7 (25 votes)
Turnabout Succession (4-4) - 3.5 (24 votes)
The Lost Turnabout (2-1) - 3.3 (27 votes)
Turnabout Serenade (4-3) - 2.7 (24 votes)

A big score split here! Several people rated E1-4 pretty high, including those that don't typically like the other AAI cases. Other people rated E1-4 low, even lower than the other AAI cases. Yew is also a pretty divisive character herself. In the end, it lands right in the middle but still the top rated AAI case.

Summary:

After seven years Yatagarasu has returned, but why now, and what is he after? Edgeworth and all his allies come together to combat an international criminal, with not one murder but two to solve before the night is over.

Main Characters: Miles Edgeworth, Dick Gumshoe, Franziska von Karma, Kay Faraday, Shi-Long Lang, Shih-na
Other Characters: Manny Coachen, Colias Palaeno, Quercus Alba, Larry Butz, Wendy Oldbag, Ka-Shi Nou, Calisto Yew, Tyrell Badd

My Rating: 2.5/10. Oh man, this one is a headache to rate. There's some good ideas here. Shih-na is a really fun case to unravel with everything surrounding her arrest easily being the high point of AAI1 and is the only time that matches the energy of the main games. And then you get to the save and it says "Midpoint." What. And it's true, that's basically the midpoint of the case, even though you find the true culprit a few moments later because the case comes to a screeching halt with Alba. I don't hate the idea of a murderer that basically hides in plain sight but you can't catch him due to technicalities. It just...it's so long. And there's so many times where it's like "OK, there we go", but no, he just goes on and on.

Getting away from Alba, AAI1 feels really troll-y towards Edgeworth and it truly gets out of hand with Oldbag and Larry. I have no idea what to think about a hot dog being the key to the case.

5.5/10

This one does stick out as being too long but I thought it was decent enough despite that.

8.5/10.

Yes its long, precisely one section too long, but everything else here is great. It feels like one of the biggest cases in terms of scope and scale, and presages the grand political stories the series would go on to tackle. There are moments in here that are among the very best in the franchise. Alba is a villain who many dislike but frankly that just shows that hes working. Theres even a Lethal Weapon 2 reference!

Also it gave us this:

https://youtu.be/gfENnDvb4UA?si=mgZL-2O-8hS9mPhh

8/10

Hot take time! I actually like this case a whole lot, I think it's one of the most underrated in the series, and my primary issues with it aren't the ones typically cited about it.

What I like: The murder mystery setup here is actually quite good, and the embassy makes for a really interesting murder setting - some of the tricks involving the two buildings are really cool! This case also makes really good use of its main cast. Kay is probably at her most useful and least annoying here, and Lang, who strangely really only shows up in three cases in both games total, is really in top form here. I love when he accuses Franziska in order to trick Alba into letting him investigate. Speaking of which, the investigations here are fun - one of my favorite scenes in the entire series that nobody talks about is the first investigation of the Allebahst embassy where you have Franziska, Oldbag and Larry and every exchange in that entire scene just lands for me, I dunno what it is. Of course, you've got the Yatagarasu stuff, which is the one thing most people like in this case. And, my hottest take of all - the confrontation with Alba at the end is fine! He's not the best villain, but he's okay, and I actually don't think it drags on as horribly as people say - the main issue is that the Yatagarasu climax is the most exciting part and he's kind of a letdown afterwards. But I like how meaty this murder mystery is and how long it takes to pull apart. I don't mind long cases.

Okay, all that said, the one issue with this case is that the overarching plot sucks and is boring. This game spills a lot of ink about Manny Coachen, a character who is completely devoid of any personality who we never meet. He's just a random name who happens to be a big part of this boring smuggling conspiracy that has almost nothing to do with anyone in this story. Who cares? The overarching plot of AAI1 is just so terrible and it really hurts this case because there isn't really much of a human story behind it. The only part that's interesting is, again, Yatagarasu and the Calisto Yew reveal but even that's barely tied to the broader smuggling plot! Bleh. I'm glad they figured out how to have a better overarching plot in the second game.

6

My favorite in the game! Still only pretty good though

The final boss questioning is so long that it overshadows everything else.

3.9/10

There's three standout moments to this case to me:

• Shih-na doing the Yew laugh
• Lang accusing Franziska of the murder to get back into the crime scene
• THE OTHER LANG MOMENT

This case single-handedly made me like Lang quite a bit. If not for him, this case would be nothing but fluff and last-minute saves from the bench warmers.

I played like half of this case then got bored and wandered off. Last thing I remember Badd got arrested

Is it worth replaying and finishing?

8.5

7.5/10

It'd probably be a full point higher if the game just ended with capturing Shih-na or if taking down Alba took an hour less time. The game has been building up to catching Yew/Shih-na, so you get a satisfying climax and catharsis, but then it keeps going and forces you to take down a character you have no emotional stake in beating.

The game has some obvious bloat and structure issues (the second murder just feels totally unnecessary and forgettable), but man, E1-5 Middle is just so good. For all the annoyance Yew's laugh is in E1-4, there's a big payoff when stoic Shih-na starts to crack and I immediately realize who she is. It's such a good moment in conjuction with the game's Announce the Truth theme.

Then Badd coming in with the "why does the Yatagarasu have three legs" reveal was great. Lang stepping in to take the bullet for Shih-na is so good, too. If the game had just ended here and they had made Shih-na Manny Coachen's killer without ever pursuing the ringleader, I feel like nobody really complains because it'd be a satisfying conclusion.

Paratroopa1 posted...

This game spills a lot of ink about Manny Coachen, a character who is completely devoid of any personality who we never meet.

We technically meet him for like five seconds near the start of E1-4!

Forgot to vote

3.5/10

Leonhart4 posted...

We technically meet him for like five seconds near the start of E1-4!

I know technically Manny Coachen is actually a character who has spoken lines of dialog in this game but for all intents and purposes it does not matter

6

this feels kinda high for it. have a hard time reconciling the incredible middle versus the actively awful, punishing, unending final act.

also thinking about this case reminded me of how key the soundtrack in AAI1 is. the pursuit theme and confrontation - presto are amazing - and of course there's the confess the truth theme, most memorably used vs shih-na.

There are several characters with no lines of dialogue that have more personality than Manny.

AAI1 is a top 3 OST for the series. I think the only ones that compete with it are SoJ and Layton/PW.

i think GAA belongs in that convo

SeabassDebeste posted...

i think GAA belongs in that convo

It's on the tier just below those three. It has some really great songs, but I feel like it isn't as strong top to bottom.

3

I don't even remember the middle of this case being good. I'm wondering if that's because it's so drawn out late I forgot or that it wasn't that good to me to begin with. Like I associate 1-5 with drawn out but some great moments and it's worth it, this one is just super long without particularly bad stuff, but no highs to lift it.

I probably rate this case better if you cut case 2 out of the game-- I'd be less fatigued.

I did not reach this case, but I watched videos of it later. Based on what I saw, this would not have rated highly.

while i thought E1-1 was weak and E1-2 was terrible, i actually never thought AAI1 dragged as a game... until E1-5. even the first act is kinda meh.

I think the first act has some good stuff in it. Colias Palaeno is an underrated character. He's always super honest and helpful to Edgeworth, even to his detriment. The first showdown with Shih-na when she arrests Kay is good, too.

The Larry/Oldbag stuff though feels interminable, even more than Alba. That entire thing is just a waste of time.

After reading through this topic, this case is lucky a fair number of people apparently quit AA1 before getting to it!

4

It does have a few good moments but the case as a whole goes on for far too long and is generally pretty boring to boot.

This game and Apollo Justice did a great job of killing my interest in the series for years.

E1-1 doesn't drag.

Every other one drags to varying degrees imo.

This one is by far the worst though.

6.5/10

It's fine, some high points but some low ones as well. The case against Alba dragged but he's pretty convincingly menacing at least.

7

Would have been better if it was an hour shorter.

7

I'm in the camp of this is good but drags enough to bring it down a bit. Like even actually longer stuff than this case in later games doesn't drag as much.

https://youtu.be/kwC_IaY3BmY?si=2GfpuzRhlbU4OoSL

5.5/10

It's actually really, really good at first. But boy, does that last hour DRAAAAAG. When I EVENTUALLY took the bastard down, I was like "Fucking finally!" and not excited at all. It would have been way better if there had been fewer convenient excuses for why we can't just arrest him. Especially given how it's so obvious that he's the Big Bad once he changes form. Same is true for 2-4, of course, but that one has actual STAKES after that. This one is just "Can I bring this asshole down already? Please? Pretty please with bacon on top? COME ON, PLEEEEEASSSEEEEEEE?" Not fun.

But I am with what others have already said: That length isn't a problem if it doesn't feel like it's dragging.

8

wavered between ranking this lower or not, because yeah, i agree it does drag on and on at times, and unlike 3-5, it doesn't really balance having two antagonists super well. and the second death feels a bit unnecessary tbh... but, fuck it, when i first got this game, i was physically incapable of playing anything else, so really quercus alba was doing me a solid by being a stubborn old tree.

lots of good character moments here: shih-na's deterioration and breakdown, lang finally seeing edgeworth eye to eye (when he busts in with the whole force? epic!), palaeno is a great red herring - to the point that he's just a genuinely sweet guy. and every other character has at least one stand out scene ... for better or worse.

the mystery is mostly great too. having to consolidate two halves of the same building, slowly learning bits and pieces of a coffee and using it for your case .... this kind of shit is what I wanted from 4-3, not impossible feats of fun shooty ..t. he length is the only real problem i have! a lot of small stuff doesn't work ... like manny being boring and demasque electric boogaloo being a waste of space ... but meh, fuck it lol 8 it is

also, "objection! go away!" is one of the greatest moments in ace attorney history, my psychopathic ass welcomes more moments where wendy oldbag takes the limelight. and larry wasn't too bad either. some games make him the right level of pathetic and others don't imo.

E1-1: 5/10
E1-2: 3/10
E1-3: 4/10
E1-4: 7.5/10
E1-5: 7/10

This is a pretty bad game by AA standards, but ends fairly well!

(As shown in the 4-4 topic, it takes a lot for me to dislike an epic case, and despite its best attempts E1-5 doesn't get there either)

Hmm...meh? I remember this being a very tedious case. It has the epic size of a final case and a lot of reveals, but it just doesn't hit home as much in this Investigations style.

It's tough. I gave E1-4 a 6. There is a lot more to this case and it's in all honestly not bad, but that tedium definitely stuck.

I'll be generous and give it a 6.5/10.
I still think it deserves the highest rating for this game, but there are a lot of things holding it back. In the grand scheme it's not that interesting, but within the game itself it's fine. It goes nicely at the bottom of final cases together with 4-4, for different reasons.

Presto

The great part of the Lethal Weapon reference is that its a real hype moment in the context of the game too.

Should have ended the case right there!

Lang Zi says: ... JUST GO ALREADY!