Board 8 > The Legend of Zelda: Echoes of Wisdom Review Zone (86 OC/85 MC)

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://opencritic.com/game/16869/the-legend-of-zelda-echoes-of-wisdom
https://www.metacritic.com/game/the-legend-of-zelda-echoes-of-wisdom/

The consensus seems to be that Echoes of Wisdom mixes classic Zelda style with BotW-esque freedom, and succeeds for the most part. The Echoes mechanic and dungeons are praised a lot, but the game is mentioned to have notable framerate stuttering, and the more passive approach to combat is mentioned as a negative in some reviews.

Dexerto (5/5): The game is a punchy cocktail of old school Zelda, expertly blended with modern mechanics from the series two open-world giants. As a result, Nintendo has created something that feels both nostalgic and uniquely fresh.

Nintendo Life (9/10): Echoes of Wisdom applies its whole philosophy to the series' vintage top-down dungeons to great effect. None of them are particularly challenging, but they are classic Zelda to a tee, complete with puzzles, keys, locked rooms full of monsters, and more. Plus, if you want more of a challenge, you can hop into Hero Mode at any point it's worth it, because it definitely bites.

IGN (9/10): Its echo summoning is a clever concept used to combine the expertly crafted dungeons, puzzle rooms, and item progression youd expect from a classic-style 2D Zelda with the borderline unhinged freedom provided by Tears of the Kingdom. This experiment doesnt produce an entirely perfect result, with a little bit of clunky menu management and combat that simply isnt quite as compelling, but its an impressively successful one all the same.

Trustedreviews (4.5/5): I was quite surprised by how invested I became in the stories of characters that Zelda meets along the way. This is the most alive that Hyrule has ever felt in any of the Zelda games Ive played to date.

The Gamer (4/5): Despite how much joy I mined conquering its temples and delving into its many rifts, at times it doesnt push its ambition far enough. That never stops Echoes from being a warm hug of a video game that enraptured me from start to finish, but it does leave me infinitely more curious about what the future holds.

Digitec Magazine (4/5): It's fun to find new monsters and items and experiment with them both in combat and when solving puzzles. Every now and then I wish I could take a more active part in the battles. The limited swordfighter mode only partially satisfies my appetite.

VGC (3/5): Despite some ambitious ideas, beneath the surface Echoes of Wisdom is surprisingly uneven Zelda adventure. Few of its headline mechanics are utilised to their potential which means that, while enjoyable and charming, it ultimately feels less essential than other modern 2D entries.

The Legend of Zelda Flop of Wisdom

What are people saying about the length

pjbasis posted...

What are people saying about the length

I've never had any complaints

15 hours to beat
30 to complete

Is what I'm seeing

I've played a little, and yeah, the framerate stuttering is surprisingly prevalent. It dips constantly

pjbasis posted...

What are people saying about the length

15-20 was mentioned in a review, wouldn't be surprised if completionist is closer to 25-30 like Shine says.

tazzyboyishere posted...

I've played a little, and yeah, the framerate stuttering is surprisingly prevalent. It dips constantly

This was a common complaint with the Link's Awakening remake too, not super surprised but it's a shame they couldn't figure it out for this one.

all killer, I like it

mid 80s sounds INCREDIBLY low for Zelda

Zigzagoon posted...

mid 80s sounds INCREDIBLY low for Zelda

The easiest comparison to this would be the Link's Awakening remake (same team, same engine, same console), and that got 87. 2D Zeldas don't usually score as high as 3D, and the unreliable performance won't help. But I doubt this is a Tri Force Heroes situation!

I'd say 85 is even worse than LA's 87 because it's literally just a remake. Nothing new or fresh to get excited about where Echoes is a brand new adventure.

I'll wait to hear some more from people, but this sounds like an easy pass and maybe I'll just watch Vinny stream it or something.

andylt posted...

Digitec Magazine (4/5): It's fun to find new monsters and items and experiment with them both in combat and when solving puzzles. Every now and then I wish I could take a more active part in the battles. The limited swordfighter mode only partially satisfies my appetite.

THIS definitely stands out to me which is what I was incredibly worried about from the trailers.

I liked Tri Force Heroes.

Zigzagoon posted...

THIS definitely stands out to me which is what I was incredibly worried about from the trailers.

I wonder if this is going to be a game that is much more popular with people who don't like action games. Since it's more about using your Echoes, it'll probably turn off people who like traditional Zelda games but really draw in casual gamers who usually struggle with fighting.

I know a lot of people who really loved BotW/TotK, but the least enjoyable part for them is the combat. They'll probably really get into this.

It just doesn't seem to be a combat-oriented game, and I'm totally fine with that. I find the concept very exciting, even if it's not what you traditionally go into a Zelda game for.

Having played some I think the average scores are too low. By Zelda standards, at least. It's a bit experimental, which may be hurting it. The performance issues are a shame, but this is what we live with on this hardware.

Sounds like the 86 is due to framerate issues. I imagine this would be 90+ without them. Hopefully they can get them fixed a little with a post-release patch, but they never did fix Link's Awakening so I wouldn't count on it.

_Blur_ posted...

Sounds like the 86 is due to framerate issues. I imagine this would be 90+ without them. Hopefully they can get them fixed a little with a post-release patch, but they never did fix Link's Awakening so I wouldn't count on it.

I feel like BotW had frame rate issues too? Im not sure how much because the only games off the top of my head are that and Scarlet/Violet

BotW had some. TotK was about as good as anything on the platform. S/V was an actual nightmare at launch. This is definitely not S/V but it's kind of unsightly, especially on the overworld.

2D Zelda has a ceiling at 90, this is a pretty different game from traditional 2D Zeldas, and yeah performance issues.

TotK absolutely has worse framerate issues than EoW. It drops to 20 whenever you're using Ultrahand.

Eh, maybe. I didn't notice them as much, unless I'm just not remembering. But it's also full 3D and simulating dynamic physics stuff that baffled other developers.

Yeah TotK chugged a ton.

I've also heard that EoW goes between 60 and 30 sometimes, which could be particularly jarring.

This sounds like exactly what I like. Framerate issues really deflate any excitement though.

Framerate issues doesnt surprise me. Switch has been having those for a long time

I'm not very perceptive of framerate, which I'm grateful for. I can only tell you a general feeling unless there's a readout in the corner.

paperwarior posted...

I'm not very perceptive of framerate, which I'm grateful for.

Same. I wouldn't be able to tell 30 and 60 FPS apart! I only notice framerate in games when it drops significantly, like Korok Forest in BotW (which TotK did fix!). I believe I'd notice stutters in something like this, but I dunno if it'd be bad enough to bother me.

There's only really few games I've noticed framerates blowing, and then even fewer again that really bothered me. \_()_/

Framerate is very noticeable to me, but I also don't really care unless it's choppy.

Zigzagoon posted...

I'd say 85 is even worse than LA's 87 because it's literally just a remake. Nothing new or fresh to get excited about where Echoes is a brand new adventure.

I'll wait to hear some more from people, but this sounds like an easy pass and maybe I'll just watch Vinny stream it or something.

THIS definitely stands out to me which is what I was incredibly worried about from the trailers.

This is about where I'm at too.

Omniscientless posted...

It just doesn't seem to be a combat-oriented game, and I'm totally fine with that. I find the concept very exciting, even if it's not what you traditionally go into a Zelda game for.

It seems a little pointed when the first non-combat Zelda and the first one where you play as Zelda are the same game though.

Kenri posted...

It seems a little pointed when the first non-combat Zelda and the first one where you play as Zelda are the same game though.

Wand of Gamelon erasure

Kenri posted...

It seems a little pointed when the first non-combat Zelda and the first one where you play as Zelda are the same game though.

Other Zelda games definitely de-emphasize combat, like Oracle of Ages

Combat is a major part of this game. As major as it is in Tears of the Kingdom.

It's not really non-combat, just on the lower end of combat focus in a series which isn't ultra-focused on combat overall.

Yeah it's weird to pine for combat in a series that basically has basically been using the same system since the SNES.

At least this game is trying something new even if it doesn't end up being successful for some people.

I'm seeing some of the reviews complain that the game is too easy because you can heal during fights... even though you can do the exact same thing in BotW and TotK. Andy's certainly right about reviewers being more critical of the 2D games!

When's the last time they made a Zelda game where you can't heal during fights? No, literally, when's the last time? Has there EVER been a Zelda game where you can't heal during fights? I can't think of one.

The only Zelda games that are even hard in the first place are the first two lol

To me this looks like the best LoZ Switch game since Links Awakening which is the best LoZ Switch game. Not exactly sure when Ill get around to getting it though

Yeah Zelda difficulty has been a joke since like, Wind Waker.

BotW/TotK are pretty difficult IF YOU WANT THEM TO BE, but the difficulty in those games is very optional and tweakable depending on how you approach the game. Pretty much every other Zelda game has always left you more than prepared for whatever's ahead. I mean, even OoT/MM/LttP etc are really easy games. This isn't even to their detriment, they're very accessible - LttP is one of the easiest games among its contemporaries but that's probably somewhat to its credit.

I think this is the first Zelda game that lets you play on Hero Mode at launch too, which is a nice perk for those who crave more difficulty. You can even switch difficulty at any time, unlike some previous Hero Modes.

I found BotW and TotK to be pretty challenging personally, though they get easier as they go along. I died a lot trying to shield parry Guardians in BotW.

I actually have the complaint that enemies hit like bricks, in true BotW/TotK style, just because you're expected to be able to avoid much of it and you have lots of healing options. Going into melee range in sword mode can leave you down 3 hearts from bumping an enemy once.

I found BotW and TotK to both be rather hard at the beginning, with the difficulty dropping significantly after the first dozen hours or so. Not that that's a bad thing.

Honestly I have difficulty comprehending someone coming to Zelda primarily for the combat! It's always been the puzzles for me, as well as the sense of exploration+discovery. Though some of the reviews here say combat is still a major part of proceedings, you're just more passive during battles so it can feel like more of a slog, if true then I get that as a complaint.

swordz9 posted...

To me this looks like the best LoZ Switch game since Links Awakening which is the best LoZ Switch game. Not exactly sure when Ill get around to getting it though

I know you hate the 3D Switch ones, but did you play Cadence of Hyrule? I thought that was a super solid 2D Zelda experience.

Bloodthirsty

Paratroopa1 posted...

BotW/TotK are pretty difficult IF YOU WANT THEM TO BE, but the difficulty in those games is very optional and tweakable depending on how you approach the game.

Eh, I had to specifically avoid upgrading health for a very long time and it was still a cakewalk. There's just too many tools to help you succeed. I'm not saying that's bad game design, but I think it's fair to call a game easy when 'intentionally ignore a lot of tools' is how you're supposed to make it hard.

I havent played CoH or even the original Crypt of the Necrodancer

KamikazePotato posted...

Eh, I had to specifically avoid upgrading health for a very long time and it was still a cakewalk. There's just too many tools to help you succeed. I'm not saying that's bad game design, but I think it's fair to call a game easy when 'intentionally ignore a lot of tools' is how you're supposed to make it hard.

Many people say From Software bosses are hard because they don't summon good players to win those fights for them, despite that being a major tool in the games.

MacArrowny posted...

Many people say From Software bosses are hard because they don't summon good players to win those fights for them, despite that being a major tool in the games.

I think there's a pretty clear difference between an online system you have to opt into versus a basic upgrade system you have to actively avoid for enemies to be able to meaningfully hurt you

Am I alone in thinking the damage in TotK is really high? Still wouldn't call it a hard game, exactly. The design philosophy prioritizes giving you tools to play with over balancing the difficulty. That's somewhat true of this game as well. You don't need all the different summons to clear the game but you still have a bunch of ways to kill enemies, and a bunch of ways to get onto a high ledge as well. At the beginning of one dungeon, the floor collapsed in a cutscene and dropped me into a basement. Tri said something like "We can't just go back the same way" and I said "Can't we?" and scaled the wall back out.

Might get this. I was never holding it to the high standards of a Zelda game. It just feels like a little bonus Nintendo spinoff.

paperwarior posted...

The design philosophy prioritizes giving you tools to play with over balancing the difficulty.

I think that's a pretty good way of describing the open-world Zelda difficulty. BotW in particular was very difficult at the onset, with many enemies (or environmental missteps) capable of killing Link immediately. Eventually though, the player gets over the hump (perhaps around the time you conquer your first Major Test of Strength), and Link becomes to overstocked that hardly anything outside the rare OHKO is of much concern. When you have high-level gear and an ample supply of Hearty foods, you can tank literally hundreds of hits.