Current Events > When a JRPG Has a Job System, Characterization Takes a Hit

(+) Yeah! (+)

Ive noticed something with JRPGs that have robust job systemscharacter development often takes a backseat. Since characters can switch jobs at will, they sometimes lose their distinct identities or roles in the story. Everyone becomes a jack-of-all-trades instead of having specific strengths and weaknesses tied to their personality or backstory.

For example, games like Final Fantasy V and Bravely Default have great job systems, but I felt like the characters were more defined by their gameplay roles than their actual stories. On the other hand, more linear JRPGs tend to keep characters tightly connected to their narrative roles (e.g., Cloud being the soldier or Aerith being the healer).

Metaphor Refantazio does a decent job of focusing on characters while still letting them have story.

Akagami_Shanks posted...

Metaphor Refantazio does a decent job of focusing on characters while still letting them have story.

This is what I was going to bring up.

OP, that has nothing to do with a job system. Its not like in the cutscenes the warrior you turned into a Mage gets Magey dialog or something.

Its a function of shitty writing.

FFV has shitty writing not because of a job system, but because all but 3 or 4 Final Fantasy games have shitty writing.

I dunno I'd say FF5 had about as well developed characters of any other jrpg of it's era that had come out before it.

Not the most amazing or anything but were serviceable.

I generally agree with this, there are outliers to it and ways to address it, but by in large I prefer games with characters who have set roles and I do feel it adds to their character and if the writing is good, their motivation. FFIV is my favorite Final Fantasy for this reason.

Syfe posted...

I generally agree with this, there are outliers to it and ways to address it, but by in large I prefer games with characters who have set roles and I do feel it adds to their character and if the writing is good, their motivation. FFIV is my favorite Final Fantasy for this reason.

I would say I kind of disagree with set roles because what inevitably ends up happening is theres a setup that is clearly better than the others and characters get left out. For example if you KNOW you need a healer and a tank, thats already 2 characters that have a guaranteed party spot. In DQXI the setup ends up being like MC, Serena, the 8th, and then Erik lmao

seems like a coincidence and not a necessity. ff tactics or yakuza 7/8 don't let a job system affect what characterization they have planned.

sometimes the story writers just ain't cookin.

What, you don't like having a party of all-Warriors who just grunt and butt heads?

Yeah, I hate job systems because it can turn everyone into a blank slate for you to just dump random roles into. I'd rather have every character have an identity that is reflected in their gameplay

much better than forcing characters in your party

unless it's a new game or new route, i never liked party members shifting through the story

pauIie posted...

seems like a coincidence and not a necessity. ff tactics or yakuza 7/8 don't let a job system affect what characterization they have planned.

sometimes the story writers just ain't cookin.

yeah like fire emblem three houses has great and memorable characters and its job system does pretty much exactly what TC is describing

i will say though that the series has established character archetypes (the loyal, veteran knight or the suave, mysterious thief) that do much better with open job systems

Akagami_Shanks posted...

I would say I kind of disagree with set roles because what inevitably ends up happening is theres a setup that is clearly better than the others and characters get left out. For example if you KNOW you need a healer and a tank, thats already 2 characters that have a guaranteed party spot. In DQXI the setup ends up being like MC, Serena, the 8th, and then Erik lmao

Serena sucks, though.

Use Rab or Sylvano for healing instead.

BlueFalcon posted...

Serena sucks, though.

Use Rab or Sylvano for healing instead.

nah her healing is OP in endgame, she easily heals for the most, which when you're using squishies is the difference between eating shit and staying alive

but with bravely default, every character is super distinct. ringabel being all into edea, agnes going on about things being unacceptable. all their characterization is instead tied to who they are, not what they bring to battles

A game that I feel has the perfect balance of "job customization" and "characters having defined gameplay roles" is Fire Emblem: The Sacred Stones. Most of the characters you recruit come in a base class that can be promoted into 1 of 2 different advanced classes that fill similar but not exactly the same roles.

Some examples: Franz joins as a mounted Cavalier who uses swords and lances, but he can promote to either a Paladin or a Great Knight. Paladins have more skill, speed, and movement, but Great Knights have more defense and the ability to wield axes as well. Garcia joins as an Axe Fighter, but can promote into a Berserker or a Warrior. Berserkers have insane strength and a higher critical hit chance, but Warriors have more skill, defense, and the ability to wield bows as well. Natasha joins as a Cleric who heals but can't fight, but can promote into a Bishop or a Valkyrie. Both give her the ability to wield light magic as well as healing, but Bishop gives her more offensive power against monsters while Valkyrie makes her a mounted unit with more movement. Sometimes a character's stat growths might make them a "better fit" for 1 of their 2 promotion options over the other, but the player has the choice which path to take with that character.

Earlier FE games only had linear promotion, while later FE games had much wider re-classing options that can definitely make characters lose their gameplay identity. The branching but still limited options in Sacred Stones were the perfect middle ground IMO.

pauIie posted...

seems like a coincidence and not a necessity. ff tactics or yakuza 7/8 don't let a job system affect what characterization they have planned.

sometimes the story writers just ain't cookin.

Yeah. FFXII didn't either.

FFX=2 had a job sytem and all 3 characters still felt like unique characters in the story

FFV straight up has better writing and characterization than FFIV

NeonPhoenix posted...

Yeah, I hate job systems because it can turn everyone into a blank slate for you to just dump random roles into. I'd rather have every character have an identity that is reflected in their gameplay

yeah same I agree with this and other similar posts. A good example of a game that didnt have a job system but caught unfounded criticism for not having it was Triangle Strategy.

each characters very identity/personality is grounded in the kind of unit they are in gameplay. The grizzled old expert archer suddenly becoming a bird knight with a massive shield makes absolutely no sense for his character, or vice versa.

job systems of course can work well, but its not a one size fits all and its infuriating when people act otherwise. I prefer more linear promotions myself because I like the idea of somebody riding a dragon for gameplay purposes has characterization that reflects that

I don't really like most job systems. Was never fond of constantly switching classes to gain experience and eventually having everyone able to do everything. I'd rather just deal with character-specific skill trees that I can only put a limited amount of resources into.

Im tired of this narrative that FFV has a bad story and characters.

Sorry that the characters arent explaining to the audience that its the sad part or the exciting part like in FF4. The guys in 5 acted like real people outside of weirdo translation moments. Bartz is goofy but a strong organizer and leader. Faris puts on a tough act, but is pretty sensitive and insecure deep down. Then you have Gilgamesh who is one of the most fun characters in the entire series. ExDeath is fun too, for how unapologetically evil and actually competent he is.

Then you have 4, which gets praised constantly, for having characters with the sole trait of brave, or girlfriend. I love 4 but come on. Not to mention the dumb fakeout death scenes.

Nah, 4 is, at best, a soap opera. The characters are archetypes, not really characters. There's the Dark Knight, the Paladin, the White Mage, and so on.

FFV characters actually have personalities. Galuf and Bartz have a great rapport. Faris is actually kind of complex and has real emotional scenes (FF4 AND 5 spoilers) no fakeout deaths. Gilgamesh is fantastic. They have their own personal motivations and values. The dialogue isn't that deep, but the characterization is a big step up from 4 and it's easy to see it as the bridge to 6.

ZaruenKosai posted...

I love job/class systems. more
Not for everyone or every game, sometimes a game can be better without one.
a lot of the time when there is no class/job system , I wish there was

if you have no self control and your brain automatically goes to whatever the best build is, than yeah job classes arent really meant for you.

I hate having 5 warriors or 5 calculators.

I will always have everyone using a different class so that each character is still unique.

Most RPGS never really require you to dive deep into the mechanics to actually play the game,

usually they just make an average difficulty game much easier but almost never required to actually develop too much to beat the game.

I was on your side until you started attacking FFIV. :)

Hey I love 4, but Im not gonna pretend it has deep characters. I was referring to the guy who said 4 had better characters. I like how simple 4 is, but it is certainly not complex.