Current Events > Your honest thoughts on people who think Goku would lose to Superman?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hmm? ;;;;o

People don't factor that Goku is a martial artist trained in many many arts. That alone gives him a huge advantage over Superman, even though Superman is a martial artist himself

power scale in Dragon Ball is absolute lunacy

you have Vegeta and Goku and other fighters on their level being able to destroy planets or celestial bodies with minimal effort

If you take like early Saiyan saga or Frieza Saga Goku then it's maybe an even fight between him and Big Blue. Maybe a slight edge to Goku.

It all hinges upon whether you count Ki in the DB universe as magic. If it is then Superman has no defence against it and loses easily

Superman is even more of a "hey nice complex ability, nerd, now check this shit out" character than Goku is.

VeggetaX posted...

even though Superman is a martial artist himself

Uhh what? When did this happen?

They are right. Really would be it base form vs base form or most powerful form vs most powerful form? Hell Superman in both cases.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/9403f52e.jpg

Ryven posted...

Uhh what? When did this happen?

decades ago before you where born even

superman has studied martial arts at many points in his existence

he is not some brainless brute who relies on raw strength to win fights

Ryven posted...

Uhh what? When did this happen?

Many, many, many times. He constantly is depicted as learning some form of martial art.

It just rarely matters overall because he is ballistically stronger than most of his opponents or the act of being good at hand to hand combat is pointless when you are so strong.

Sure Goku may lose at first, but he'll just train for a year, come back for the rematch, and lose again.

Yamcha could beat Superman if he had some Kryptonite

Greatly depends on which Superman variant you're talking about because sometimes he can be weak like in the Justice League series and other times he can be Omnipotent-like in that one comic series that I forgot the name of.

Superman lost in a boxing match vs Muhammed Ali. I don't think Goku would ever get out boxed by Ali, so therefore Goku can beat Superman.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Superman lost in a boxing match vs Muhammed Ali. I don't think Goku would ever get out boxed by Ali, so therefore Goku can beat Superman.

remove gokus super str speed ect

and yes yes he would

as goku is a terrible martial artist

Doom_Art posted...

power scale in Dragon Ball is absolute lunacy

you have Vegeta and Goku and other fighters on their level being able to destroy planets or celestial bodies with minimal effort

If you take like early Saiyan saga or Frieza Saga Goku then it's maybe an even fight between him and Big Blue. Maybe a slight edge to Goku.

It all hinges upon whether you count Ki in the DB universe as magic. If it is then Superman has no defence against it and loses easily

I agree with you about DBZ but it also goes without saying that Superman powerscaling is all over the place depending on the version of Superman. He might struggle fighting a dinosaur or giant gorilla or he might casually move entire planets.

The magic thing is also very inconsistent and it depends on the writer. Sometimes it's explicitly "magic things hurt him". Like a magic-enchanted sword would cut Superman because it's magic. But the other interpretation that some writers use is that it's not really a weakness to magic, he just doesn't have a specific power to defend against magic stuff. So for example a spell that turns Superman into a rabbit would work on him because he doesn't have super-anti-rabbit-spell powers. But a magic sword wouldn't work because it's still just hitting him with a sword and he has super invulnerability powers that defend against that.

But, you know, he's like a 90 year old character with over a hundred different writers across media so who can complain. The standard comic book Superman probably should beat Goku though.

AceMos posted...

remove gokus super str speed ect

and yes yes he would

as goku is a terrible martial artist

He learned everything he needs from Gohan. Everyone else taught strength training and chi shit cause they didn't need to waste their time on teaching him fundamentals his grandpa taught him.

Doom_Art posted...

It all hinges upon whether you count Ki in the DB universe as magic. If it is then Superman has no defence against it and loses easily

I would say it falls more under the category of psionics (power within and all that jazz). Which, depending on the version, he is also vulnerable to.

Superman would beat up Goku and then shake his hand

Goku would go "you are strong!'

Then they would rematch

Goku would then beat Superman but then throw him a sensu bean

Superman would then beat Goku

rinse and repeat ad infinitum

A_Good_Boy posted...

He learned everything he needs from Gohan. Everyone else taught strength training and chi shit cause they didn't need to waste their time on teaching him fundamentals his grandpa taught him.

He has been shown to be a pretty trash martial artist since the start of DBZ. He lost his fundamentals.

A_Good_Boy posted...

He learned everything he needs from Gohan. Everyone else taught strength training and chi shit cause they didn't need to waste their time on teaching him fundamentals his grandpa taught him.

the thing is AT knew nothing about martial arts so all we really get is goku throwing punches and kicks and some basic grapples once and a while

goku is from a world where martial arts is just magic powers (yes i know ki is not magic that is different you know what i mean)

Yeah Superman knows the basics of CQC

See that's why I like the Broly movie. At least in that one Goku used a throw for once.

He would. Superman is just such a stupidly OP character in several iterations.

ellis123 posted...

He has been shown to be a pretty trash martial artist since the start of DBZ. He lost his fundamentals.

Yeah, they moved away from martial arts techniques winning fights with Piccolo, at the end of Dragon Ball. And DBZ made that even worse with the introduction of power levels.

NoxObscuras posted...

Yeah, they moved away from martial arts techniques winning fights with Piccolo, at the end of Dragon Ball. And DBZ made that even worse with the introduction of power levels.

the only thing roshi ever taught goku was that power is everything

martial arts never really mattered

AceMos posted...

the only thing roshi ever taught goku was that power is everything

martial arts never really mattered

Martial arts isn't just fancy flips and kicks. It's discipline, good living, and moral character. And fancy kicks.

AceMos posted...

the only thing roshi ever taught goku was that power is everything

martial arts never really mattered

Sure, but like, Toriyama at least tried to make early Dragon Ball resemble martial arts. There were even different schools of Martial Arts, like the Crane school, Panther-Fang school, and the Chin-Star school.

Topic looks like bait (well, it's Vegy, so of course it is). Anyway...

Earlier incarnations of Superman had him almost as a gag character. He could do almost anything. Goku being more grounded, doesn't have much of a chance.

Later incarnations of Superman still can survive in space for extended periods of time while Goku can't. If their battle gets extreme enough the Earth is destroyed, Superman wins by default.

And yeah, any versions capable of throwing out infinite mass punches have Goku's number.

Kuuko posted...

But, you know, he's like a 90 year old character with over a hundred different writers across media so who can complain. The standard comic book Superman probably should beat Goku though.

And also this.

Doom_Art posted...

power scale in Dragon Ball is absolute lunacy

you have Vegeta and Goku and other fighters on their level being able to destroy planets or celestial bodies with minimal effort

If you take like early Saiyan saga or Frieza Saga Goku then it's maybe an even fight between him and Big Blue. Maybe a slight edge to Goku.

It all hinges upon whether you count Ki in the DB universe as magic. If it is then Superman has no defence against it and loses easily

This very much depends on the version of superman. Movie/cartoon superman tends to be a lot weaker then Comic Book Superman...and remember most incarnations of Superman are also always holding back A LOT. Like equivalent of Goku fighting in base vs going Ultra Instinct kinda holding back.

And nah Ki is closer to meta gene powers then it is to magic.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Martial arts isn't just fancy flips and kicks. It's discipline, good living, and moral character. And fancy kicks.

and a power level over 9000.

A_Good_Boy posted...

Superman lost in a boxing match vs Muhammed Ali. I don't think Goku would ever get out boxed by Ali, so therefore Goku can beat Superman.

He was taken to some pocket dimension thing that made it so everyone was normal human strength. Like even Mr. Satan would lose power if he was there. And as far as I know, Goku has never studied boxing and would probably get his ass beat immediately.

Charged151 posted...

Later incarnations of Superman still can survive in space for extended periods of time while Goku can't. If their battle gets extreme enough the Earth is destroyed, Superman wins by default.

My issue with Goku is this: "Goku can't breath in space, when he fought Beerus they were in the stratosphere, that's why he could still breath." But there's not enough breathable air in the stratosphere for that to make sense. So I guess Goku gained space breathing powers at some point >_>

I don't think not being able to breathe in space matters unless he's literally stranded in space e.g. the only planet with a breathable atmosphere for light years around just got blown up.

NoxObscuras posted...

My issue with Goku is this: "Goku can't breath in space, when he fought Beerus they were in the stratosphere, that's why he could still breath." But there's not enough breathable air in the stratosphere for that to make sense. So I guess Goku gained space breathing powers at some point >_>

it was flat out stated multiple times in super that goku can not survive in space

I wish people would make a case to how strong Superman is and who he could beat against other people.

Theyre correct. He would lose to superman.

My honest thought is annoyance at people who keep dreaming up Goku VS Superman for some reason.

Kisai posted...

My honest thought is annoyance at people who keep dreaming up Goku VS Superman for some reason.

dragon ball fans are obssed with goku being the strongest guy in all of fiction

even thoe he is no where near that

he is not even the strongest guy from anime and manga

AceMos posted...

dragon ball fans are obssed with goku being the strongest guy in all of fiction

even thoe he is no where near that

he is not even the strongest guy from anime and manga

Or in his own manga/anime. Beerus and the Angels have been moving targets that Goku isn't allowed to surpass no matter how nonsensical it is.

Can goku kamehameha kryptonite

Charged151 posted...

Or in his own manga/anime. Beerus and the Angels have been moving targets that Goku isn't allowed to surpass no matter nonsensical it is.

indeed but they can begrudgingly accept that as its at least his own universe and they can convince him self he will surpass them

another thing that can upset dragon ball fans

pointing out sailor moon can beat him

In the Resurrection F movie, Goku died to a common Frieza Grunt with no powerlevel simply because he thought he had already won and wasn't expecting someone with a laser pistol to shoot him. A single moment's distraction or well-timed surprise laser blast from Supes would completely defeat Goku.

Though Superman often intentionally jobs in the early part of a fight to gauge his opponent's strength and know which level of force is appropriate to swing back with to not kill his foes.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Superman wouldn't do that. That's WAY too cruel...

AceMos posted...

as goku is a terrible martial artist

Everyone who cares knows that Superman beats Goku any day of the week, but what are you saying

SauI_Goodman posted...

Can goku kamehameha kryptonite

no

A_Good_Boy posted...

Martial arts isn't just fancy flips and kicks. It's discipline, good living, and moral character. And fancy kicks.

My judo master was real real about this when a newer, younger student asked. In his mangled-but-legible-enough English, he said, essentially:

"We need good manners and discipline to keep the lights on and to keep insurance low. Martial arts is just for fight."

AceMos posted...

it was flat out stated multiple times in super that goku can not survive in space

I know he can't. I was making a joke at the ridiculousness of him somehow being able to breathe in the stratosphere.

Evening_Dragon posted...

My judo master was real real about this when a newer, younger student asked. In his mangled-but-legible-enough English, he said, essentially:

"We need good manners and discipline to keep the lights on and to keep insurance low. Martial arts is just for fight."

guess I join Cobra Kai

Prestoff posted...

Greatly depends on which Superman variant you're talking about because sometimes he can be weak like in the Justice League series and other times he can be Omnipotent-like in that one comic series that I forgot the name of.

Even in the Justice League series, in the finale of Justice League Unlimited, he finally reveals that he holds back his strength for the entire series, because if he ever were to fight all-out, he'd kill many of the enemies that he faces. Darkseid was the one character in Justice League/Unlimited where he finally fought at full strength and he did a DBZ-style thing where he punched Darkseid through a bunch of buildings, flew to intercept him, and then slammed him into the ground. Probably not as strong as those versions of comic book Superman who can move the planet.

The thing with Superman's strength it really depends on the continuity. The "able to leap tall buildings in a single bound" Superman would lose to Goku, All-Star Superman would demolish Goku, and so on.