Current Events > New Vegas fans be like the factions in NV are so morally grey

(+) Yeah! (+)

even though one faction literally practices slavery

Ive never seen anyone say that. What people say is that New Vegas has interesting factions and choices and Bethesdas Fallouts have factions that are about as interesting as a yeast infection and about as much choice as an election between Biden and Trump.

do new vegas fans be like that

Hey at least the roads are safe.

But in all seriousness. The NCR is bad imo.

I prefer House.

Is there a fallout civil war going on cool let me join

All fallouts are worth playing except 4

nobody means that faction when they say that statement

DoesntMatter posted...

nobody means that faction when they say that statement

TC knows that, but TC is also trying to justify their own beliefs.

Frankly my problem with New Vegas is that everyone seems to be a bad guy. I could not find a single faction that interested me

What an ignorant topic.
The Legion is pretty gray in the world of Fallout. You hear about how their controlled lands are thriving and sadly we'll never get to see what Obsidian wanted to show of the Legion. All we see in NV is their war camp and soldiers on a war footing. They wanted to show a bit of Legion homeland but didn't have the time.

the legion is not gray in the world of fallout

they are categorically an insanely over the top example of feckless evil and even that was not enough for some people

my goodness

Vyrulisse posted...

What an ignorant topic.
The Legion is pretty gray in the world of Fallout. You hear about how their controlled lands are thriving and sadly we'll never get to see what Obsidian wanted to show of the Legion. All we see in NV is their war camp and soldiers on a war footing. They wanted to show a bit of Legion homeland but didn't have the time.

...I like how other responses in this topic are "Nobody is talking about that faction," but this response is specifically saying "Well, actually, that faction that owns slaves is pretty gray."

What.

Vy calling racist slavers gray lmao

Axiom posted...

Is there a fallout civil war going on cool let me join

All fallouts are worth playing except 76

Fixed

hold on, so are they gray or grey?

Irony posted...

Vy calling racist slavers gray lmao

they kept the roads safe, u see

This feels like a moment Vyrulisse should just quietly leave CE and never return. I'm not really sure how you top a moment like this.

viewmaster_pi posted...

hold on, so are they gray or grey?

Grei

I've not played NV, but doesn't the Legion also crucify people?

Like, my dude.

pegusus123456 posted...

I've not played NV, but doesn't the Legion also crucify people?

Like, my dude.

they crucify them and leave them to the elements

honestly the legion is like, the archetypical example of how it will never be enough for some people, no amount of satire will do it

here you have a bunch of singleminded and power hungry people. they have "cool uniforms" and they invoke strong and storied imagery. they speak strongly. they incorporate people and get them to willingly forgo their individuality in the name of the legion. and in doing this the rank and file are deftly guided to forgoing the individuality of others. "they are weak, they do not matter. i can do what i want with them". they rape, they enslave, they commit genocide, outright. the legion lands "doing well" is like how fucking Latveria in marvel is doing well. in the legion you can be a fighter, a slave, or dead

their leader doesnt believe an ounce of their dogma. he never did. as a result, when he dies it's going to be an immediate power grab between the zealots and the power hungry

like

god

they are not gray. that's so fucking....GOD

Vyrulisse posted...

What an ignorant topic.
The Legion is pretty gray in the world of Fallout. You hear about how their controlled lands are thriving and sadly we'll never get to see what Obsidian wanted to show of the Legion. All we see in NV is their war camp and soldiers on a war footing. They wanted to show a bit of Legion homeland but didn't have the time.

Dude tried to "Actually we just don't see the good parts of The Legion"

lmao

trivialbeing posted...

even though one faction literally practices slavery

I mean ncr is the lesser of two evils but they still ain't good people.

The Kings are the one true faction.

Axiom posted...

Is there a fallout civil war going on cool let me join

All fallouts are worth playing except 4

Fallout 4 is my favorite.

Its really just a big killing sim

Vyrulisse posted...

What an ignorant topic.
The Legion is pretty gray in the world of Fallout. You hear about how their controlled lands are thriving and sadly we'll never get to see what Obsidian wanted to show of the Legion. All we see in NV is their war camp and soldiers on a war footing. They wanted to show a bit of Legion homeland but didn't have the time.

The Legion are slavers, and the women are second class citizens. But sure, tell us all how they are "pretty gray".

008Zulu posted...

The Legion are slavers, and the women are second class citizens. But sure, tell us all how they are "pretty gray".

You see there's actually very fine people on both sides

008Zulu posted...

The Legion are slavers, and the women are second class citizens. But sure, tell us all how they are "pretty gray".

Less homophobic.

That's literally it.

Tora_Sami posted...

Fixed

I actually thought later that I should've added and 76. I just forget that game exists at times

Also didn't expect some old school Legion defense. Been awhile since I've seen someone try to justify them but they have pretty loyal fanbase

I don't think most people see Caesar's Legion as "morally gray".

What I DO see people say is that they make valid points specifically about the NCR's ineffectiveness and bureaucracy. But by no means are you supposed to see them as a better alternative to the NCR, or even House. I mean, just having a conversation with Caesar reveals how batshit insane their "ideology" is (which is really just classic fascism).

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6aa2a72c.jpg

If someone tells you they see the Legion as morally grey, that's a pretty huge red flag

https://youtu.be/mWHX-b3-h3s?si=3_M9XuciC7H2cHEK

I don't like the Legion or care for them since people just jumped on it.
I favored Mr. House's outlook if you want me to be crystal clear.
It was my mistake thinking we could have actual discussion on CE rather than a bunch of reactionary gotcha addicts that twist everything to try to rack them up.

I was just going off what was said about the developers and what they wanted the Legion to be. The faction was created to make you recoil but also make you question whether their methods worked in the Wasteland. There is NPC dialogue and lore that blatantly makes you question such things and it's meant to.

Their lands are safe from raiders and other typical wasteland threats but at what cost? That is the main question.

this person has unfortunate media literacy and is morally questionable

if my post came off as a gotcha you need to be less defensive.

Vyrulisse posted...

What an ignorant topic.
The Legion is pretty gray in the world of Fallout. You hear about how their controlled lands are thriving and sadly we'll never get to see what Obsidian wanted to show of the Legion. All we see in NV is their war camp and soldiers on a war footing. They wanted to show a bit of Legion homeland but didn't have the time.

Well you've earned your tag. Nothing you ever say again will be worth reading.

Vyrulisse posted...

Their lands are safe from raiders and other typical wasteland threats but at what cost? That is the main question.

they ARE the raiders and typical threats

the cost is raiding, raping, enslaving, kidnapping and indoctrinating children, breaking apart families, forcibly destroying other cultures and diluting their people

all in the name of maintaining caesars increasingly tenuous grip on "power"

i promise you, i promise you. they are supposed to be unequivocally evil, full stop

People who defend the Legion are just telling on themselves. Mr. House doesn't sound so great either.

Southernfatman posted...

People who defend the Legion is just telling on themselves. Mr. House doesn't sound so great either.

mr house is essentially a monarch. he doesnt give a fuck so long as he's in charge and the factions pay their tithes accordingly. and he will go to great lengths to maintain that for himself. he's apathetic evil. he's the capitalist endgame

i do not understand this vyrulisse person

trivialbeing posted...

even though one faction literally practices slavery

They literally keep women in pens as breeding chattel. You know, like caged animals you let out now and then to fuck, literally.

NCR, House and Indepenent Vegas are all morally grey factions in the sense that they're not stereotypically good or evil. The Legion actually does seem to have all kinds of qualities that are associated with evil, which I think is kind of a shame, considering the moral ambiguity of other factions. Like, I wish Obsidian had developed the Legion more to the point where the player would actually contemplate that path and consider them to be the best choice, other than "muhahahaaa, I'm gonna play an evil character now!"

Vyrulisse posted...

I don't like the Legion or care for them since people just jumped on it.
I favored Mr. House's outlook if you want me to be crystal clear.
It was my mistake thinking we could have actual discussion on CE rather than a bunch of reactionary gotcha addicts that twist everything to try to rack them up.

I was just going off what was said about the developers and what they wanted the Legion to be. The faction was created to make you recoil but also make you question whether their methods worked in the Wasteland. There is NPC dialogue and lore that blatantly makes you question such things and it's meant to.

Their lands are safe from raiders and other typical wasteland threats but at what cost? That is the main question.

So the thing is, I can listen to Caesar's arguments in the game. I can divorce myself from the world I live in and put myself in the Wasteland. The arguments he makes are coherent and rational. I get them, I understand how he comes by them, I see how they can work. Then I shoot him in the face, because he's a monster.

The society he's trying to build is a monolithic monster wherein the continuation and stability of the society is of more value than the quality of the lives of the individuals in it. Society should serve to provide a framework for the betterment of the individuals in it. Not the other way around. It is, in essence, a sort of post apocalyptic fascism.

Dungeater posted...

they ARE the raiders and typical threats

the cost is raiding, raping, enslaving, kidnapping and indoctrinating children, breaking apart families, forcibly destroying other cultures and diluting their people

all in the name of maintaining caesars increasingly tenuous grip on "power"

i promise you, i promise you. they are supposed to be unequivocally evil, full stop

I sorta kinda get what he's saying. It's like people romanticize the 50s. If you where a white dude that could look past inequality it probably was the time to be alive. For those of us who can't look past that not so much.

The legion did bad evil shit but not to those who where under their protection I assume. And when I say under their protection I mean men who aren't slaves to them.

They are fucked up people but it's all too easy to ignore when you benefit from it.

so we've decided it's not "fans" but more like "one person who argues this and everyone's like wtf lol"

ok nice

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I sorta kinda get what he's saying. It's like people romanticize the 50s. If you where a white dude that could look past inequality it probably was the time to be alive. For those of us who can't look past that not so much.

The legion did bad evil shit but not to those who where under their protection I assume. And when I say under their protection I mean men who aren't slaves to them.

They are fucked up people but it's all too easy to ignore when you benefit from it.

The thing is, they can want to express and explore those ideas in story all they like.

They failed, and now we have The Legion.

DrizztLink posted...

The thing is, they can want to express and explore those ideas in story all they like.

They failed, and now we have The Legion.

I get the idea they where trying to portray. One group is extremely bad but their system works for those who are privileged by their definition. The other group while flawed is more moral but they suffer for trying to be more moral.

Like I'm not a fan of NCR but the only bitch I recall having with them is they would just take over people's farm land or whatnot to help supply their cause. Compared to the legion that's nothing.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Like I'm not a fan of NCR but the only bitch I recall having with them is they would just take over people's farm land or whatnot to help supply their cause. Compared to the legion that's nothing.

Well, they're the closest to a traditional political base. If you live in their affluent suburbs you're afforded a great deal in your quality of life. If you're in an outlying area they might use a post-apocalyptic version of eminent domain to get access to resources, but otherwise you're largely left on your own.

Still, having local powers loosely aligned with them provides the balance of access to resources and a structure that doesn't result in half the population being subservient property of others. The NCR isn't overly interested in local issues, but having some connection to them can provide benefits. It's still up to the locals to make the best of things.

What about the Powderkeger's and Fiends?

DuneMan posted...

Well, they're the closest to a traditional political base. If you live in their affluent suburbs you're afforded a great deal in your quality of life. If you're in an outlying area they might use a post-apocalyptic version of eminent domain to get access to resources, but otherwise you're largely left on your own.

Still, having local powers loosely aligned with them provides the balance of access to resources and a structure that doesn't result in half the population being subservient property of others. The NCR isn't overly interested in local issues, but having some connection to them can provide benefits. It's still up to the locals to make the best of things.

.yeah the immeninant Domain thing was my only gripe I recall with them and even then I I'm a fence sitter on that. The Legion had some power so sometimes you do what you gotta do

Honestly think skyrim did the morally gray thing better. On one side you got people trying to put down a religion but only because they were being forced while they bide time to figure out how to get out of their predicament. Then the other side fights for their freedom but are racists.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

.yeah the immeninant Domain thing was my only gripe I recall with them and even then I I'm a fence sitter on that. The Legion had some power so sometimes you do what you gotta do

And at least NCR Eminent Domain doesn't come with a side of sex slavery, regular slavery, and LARPing.

DrizztLink posted...

And at least NCR Eminent Domain doesn't come with a side of sex slavery, regular slavery, and LARPing.

.they definitely are the better pick. But I like when games still show the better side has flaws.