From: edwardsdv | #400 I mean based solely on things that happen on the show itself theres more reason to fantasy book Santino for the World title than some of the Ryder scenarios pitched.
Good thing Ryder fans just want him on raw and not him winning the world title out of nowhere then!
From: Panthera | #399 Vince created the situation where the title was in jeopardy to begin with though. But the big point is that Cena's position was right, that Vince suspending Punk to prevent the match would hurt the prestige of the title just as much as Punk leaving with it, so Cena was the one who convinced Vince to actually have a fighting chance at salvaging the situation. And even if you thought it was a mistake, the board would be willing to forgive an awful lot when they desperately need their biggest star to be active to try to make up for not having a true WWE champion.
I don't buy this. If Punk did something warranting a suspension, he should be stripped of his privileges (ie his right to challenge for the title). You can preach "freedom of speech" regarding Punk's rant, but the bottom line is that he badmouthed the company, wished death upon his boss etc. It's hard to argue that Punk didn't deserve a punishment.
If I were in line for a raise or promotion at work and then told my boss that I wished he was dead and I got suspended, I don't think I'd be expecting said raise or promotion anymore.
As for Vince creating the opportunity for Punk to leave with the title, that's unfair. Punk might be the best, but every company in the world has that hard worker who does a great job and gets ignored while some idiot or boss' son (in-law) gets promoted. **** happens, sorry. Vince was trying to sign Punk to a contract prior to the rant, but Punk had no intention of signing. In his last weeks with the company, Punk was a terrorist. He made outlandish demands under the threat of irreparably harming the company's image. At this point, Vince took the exact route he should have taken. He told him to go **** himself. Then Cena stepped in with his righteous BS, and Vince was given the impossible task of signing Punk to a contract he didn't want to sign. Cena was gambling Vince's life work on a 50/50 shot (and perhaps the odds were even lower than that). For Cena, if he lost, oh well. For Vince, if Cena lost, his entire life's work is flushed down the toilet. It was completely justifiable for Vince to put something on the line for Cena when he himself was gambling everything.
Cena is entirely to blame though. If Vince gets his way and the match doesn't happen, the WWE Championship is 100% safe and the paying fans still get a good Cena vs. Del Rio match.
except cena gave vince the belt and looked like he was about to walk out of the company
so no cena/del rio program
cena did force vince's hand as far as the punk match, but he also added the "you're fired" stip out of spite rather than logic. he could have granted the match and not put cena's career on the line, but he made a stupid and emotional decision instead.
yes, vince placed the responsibility of retaining the title on cena's shoulders, but he did so while exacerbating the issue with very unreasonable, very questionable stipulation.
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bad advice http://img.imgcake.com/viktorpnges.png
From: Viktor Vaughn | #408 yes, vince placed the responsibility of retaining the title on cena's shoulders, but he did so while exacerbating the issue with very unreasonable, very questionable stipulation.
I dunno, I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree. I think the stipulation was reasonable. If Cena wants to put the entire history of the company on the line for unnecessary reasons, he should be held accountable if he fails. Nothing that Cena has accomplished outweighs the consequences of his failure last night. And even if they did, Vince said himself that he can always create another John Cena. He's entirely disposable.
From: TimJab | #411 I dunno, I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree. I think the stipulation was reasonable. If Cena wants to put the entire history of the company on the line for unnecessary reasons, he should be held accountable if he fails. Nothing that Cena has accomplished outweighs the consequences of his failure last night. And even if they did, Vince said himself that he can always create another John Cena. He's entirely disposable.
To the board of directors, however, "being held accountable" means losing their most money making man! And they are obviously skeptical of Vince's ability to make another John Cena if they're removing him from power.
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bad advice http://img.imgcake.com/viktorpnges.png
If they're saying that firing Cena is an action that makes Vince unfit to run the company, then they are officially ****ting on the entire rest of the roster.
While Raw has really caught my interest, the SD commercials tonight didn't exactly inspire hope for me.
Christian won the title last night and this big title change is barely mentioned because they must hype a Randy Orton/Kane street fight. Honestly, why take the belt off Orton if no one can go over him and he must remain the focus of the entire show?
From: TimJab | #407 I don't buy this. If Punk did something warranting a suspension, he should be stripped of his privileges (ie his right to challenge for the title). You can preach "freedom of speech" regarding Punk's rant, but the bottom line is that he badmouthed the company, wished death upon his boss etc. It's hard to argue that Punk didn't deserve a punishment.
Well this is the WWE. They've never been very rational within kayfabe. "Badmouthed the company" barely even matters in a world where you can insult the fans every night, rant about how people shouldn't watch the show (see every time Rock went on about how his opponents weren't worth watching) and beat the hell out of people for no reason outside of matches. Punk wasn't even all that extreme compared to, say, Orton punting Vince. Him deserving a punishment is worth less than the idea of preserving the integrity of the company by saying that they're willing to let a guy who claims to be "the best" try to prove it. It costs the company money to do give up their credibility, and it REALLY costs them money to fire Cena for no reason beyond that he failed when he's the only reason they had a shot at a good outcome in the first place. Especially when Vince himself got involved in the match.
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Mistake you're making - overlooking the fact that we might not want to be saved.
like, not the typical "oh [x] is leaving" kinda thing.
it just felt more genuine.
They were definitely shooting for that. But honestly what kinda alternate approach are you going to take, there. Who in power is going to be all like "HAHAHA VINCE SUCK IT YOU'RE DONE." And if you're not gonna go that way, why not go for the "legitimate profound sadness" route.
I honestly see Vince returning to inject a lethal dose of poison or whatever the hell he likes to do when the WWE isn't going his way.
Maybe I'm wrong. Funny thing is I'm not sure whether I want to be wrong or right here.
-- No problem! This is a cute and pop genocide of love!
I felt Raw kinda underdeliverd after how awesome MITB was. This is a big step with Trips taking over, but it didnt give a huge impact like I was expecting. We'll see what happens next week I suppose
-- Circle gets the Scare! Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with
The way I see this going is Vince somehow joining forces with Punk. You've got the iconic WWE boss and the true WWE champion both "outside the company", how do you NOT put them together now?
I posted this on the televisionwithoutpity wrestling board on the 17th.
It's got me expecting a HHH coup de'tat storyline. With the stock dropping, Punk leaving with the title, ratings falling, and Vince firing Cena; HHH comes in saying that clearly Vince has lost his edge and it is time for someone else to run the show. He will fire the Anonymous GM (best way I can think of to get rid of it), give Zack Ryder a title shot, rehire Cena, and convince Punk to sign a new contract.
It would basically be a way to reboot the company.
Called it. And I'm still happy with it.
-- (Maniac64 at work) [Browncoat] ~Board 570901~ All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.
Going back to the Orton thing. I don't really like Orton for the same reason most don't like Cena. He loses less than Cena and his movepool isn't even that much more diverse. You have a surprise RKO but then you know it can 'come from anywhere' so it's only a matter of time before he hits it if he misses it after his taunt.
Mysterio is basically as bad. Get wailed on all match and then pull out the 619/splash or something like a roll-up from nowhere.
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Crucifying my Oracle average one match at a time
Orton has a few neat moves, a terrific finisher, and he connects his character to in-ring action as well as anyone. The problem is that his character isn't very interesting and outside of 3-4 moves he just sucks in the ring. Once you get past "yeah this guy RKOs everyone!" there's nothing to him.
And that would be fine except they want him to carry a title, which stifles creativity at the main event level.
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Donny: They posted the next round for the tournament. Walter: Donny, shut the f- when do we play?
I think you guys are putting to much of this firing decision on Punk/Cena. Punk has been dropping reasons for him to be fired in almost every promo. The stock price is falling, you aren't able to make new stars like you used to, you did nothing with me and now I single handidly made the biggest storyline this company has had in years, the ratings are falling unless Punk and Cena are on screen, you couldn't resign Punk, you were going to fire Cena.
Things were falling apart under Vince's watch.
On an entirely different note, I wonder how surprised Vince was to actually get "Thank You Vince" treatment like that.
-- (Maniac64 at work) [Browncoat] ~Board 570901~ All the proteins, vitamins, and carbs of your grandma's best turkey dinner, plus 15% alcohol.
ShatteredElysium posted... Going back to the Orton thing. I don't really like Orton for the same reason most don't like Cena. He loses less than Cena and his movepool isn't even that much more diverse. You have a surprise RKO but then you know it can 'come from anywhere' so it's only a matter of time before he hits it if he misses it after his taunt.
Mysterio is basically as bad. Get wailed on all match and then pull out the 619/splash or something like a roll-up from nowhere.
Man I will never ever ever understand all this Mysterio hate that a lot of smarks have.
He puts people over, his matches are as consistently good as anyone's, he still pulls off classics if he's got someone who can work against him, and he's extremely marketable and beloved by marks. You can't ask for anything more than that from a face.
He was the best wrestler in that entire tournament last night too, although Dolph is hot on his heels.
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/imgx/1/5/2/7/4/5/7/1/orig-15274571.jpg
For those that have said they would like JR and I to do commentary together, thanks but probably will never happen-though I would love it. You never know, but I am happy living in Bermuda and JR is happy living in Oklahoma not traveling. However, it has never been brought up so the option isn’t there.
And, for JR-greatest play by play guy ever (though I have a ton of respect for Michael Cole, working with him I realize how good he is) and myself who had a decent run as a commentator. Makes you wonder why Vince Russo, former WWE creative, would say about those with a southern accent, and specifically about JR-“How can anyone take anything they say seriously with that accent?”.
I actually was told to try and talk without a southern accent by Russo so I could be taken seriously. I guess Stone Cold was never taken seriously and JR was just average? Amazing guys who stay in this business year after year, maybe another example of a clown not good enough for Ringling Bros?
-- SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized http://img.imgcake.com/lolkrugmanjpgry.jpg
Well I guess it depends on who he is facing. I just don't like the whole get wailed on virtually all match and then pull out the win from nowhere thing which is basically every match he's in. Like last night both his matches were pretty samey and the outcome was obvious very early on.
Plus I think the 619 is stupid.
EDIT: The difference with Miz is that at least he was supposed to be injured.
Also what CN said. I didn't used to feel this way with him and I don't hate him, it's just complete indifference/disinterest towards him unless his opponent interests me.
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Crucifying my Oracle average one match at a time
Elysium kinda said what I had to say. I don't DISlike Rey, I just am not the fan of him I was a few years ago. He's getting too old to be an exciting and flashy aerial guy anymore, and he's like Diet 2005 Cena with the whole underdog shtick. Therefore, I'm usually rooting against him, since he tends to face people I DO like.
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~Tommeri Uranius Bombaldi the Fourth, esq. (aka not Krakenprophet)
Bah, you people have no loyalty. Edge's work was severely crippled (pun intended) after his 2009 injury, and his face runs were crummy, but I still loved the guy and kept him as one of my favorites who I always supported!
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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero. http://img.imgcake.com/Icon/Punkjpguh.jpg