Board 8 > I think one of my co-workers has A.D.D.

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think he's saying he shouldn't have a problem in the first place.

pjbasis posted...
I think he's saying he shouldn't have a problem in the first place.

Well that's between him and his boss's daughter whether he deserves to have a problem in the first place and personally I couldn't care less.

My issue is that Bell acknowledges the problem and dealt with it accordingly and now people are calling him juvenile names for it for completely subjective reasons such as "I don't like people like that".

Either way, I've invested far too much time in this topic already and since it's beginning to bore me I do not wish to spare anymore.

Peace, I'm out!

--
Courtesy of fr0q: http://img.imgcake.com/gencardjpgha.jpg
Courtesy of Pun: http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/4738/genesissaga.png

Gatarix posted...
If one of my co-workers had an issue with me, I would much rather have him talk to me personally first, instead of having him badmouth me to my boss behind my back and possibly get me in trouble without even giving me a chance to fix the issue myself.

Now, if someone is refusing to pull their weight around the office to a big enough extent that it's hurting office productivity, and you talk to him about it and he refuses to change, I think going to the boss is fair.

This is entirely dependent on the issue/situation, though. If you have this way of talking that I find annoying, I will talk to you about it, as that is my business. I would expect the same. If you are having problems with policy, etc., that's a different matter. If I suspect you will listen to me, I will probably talk to you about it.

However, if I observe a coworker with whom I have a poor or non-existent relationship, I will most likely talk to the boss, as the coworker will take whatever the boss has to say better than I will. Most companies have talking to the boss as the policy, because most people don't take criticism well from their equals or subordinates.

I do agree, that in some situations it is appropriate to confront a co-worker. But I think Sbell made the better choice in his case.

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

This particular issue is not of that much interest to me in comparison to how things should be in principle, namely:

1. Results (pretty objective term) should be favoured by the management over "hard work" (pretty subjective one).
2. Badmouthing your peer before the boss because you think "they don't work hard enough" is bad, period. You're certainly not in position to say who works hard enough and who doesn't, unless you are the manager and it's actually your job to make such assessments.

I don't know how to put it more simply.

It truly baffles me that anyone would disagree with these two.



If you wanna talk about the case at hand, if we have to be rational about it, I think SBell's action was wrong, aside from point 2, also because the average boss is more likely to get annoyed at him for badmouthing his kid than actually do something about the supposed issue (much less promote SBell for being such a great employee). And the hypocrisy was already pointed out, as well.

--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html

1. Results are certainly important in the grand scheme of things. In my situation there are No results. There is also no work.

2. Badmouthing a peer for thinking they "don't work hard enough" is certainly a scummy thing to do. Who am I to say they aren't working "hard enough". In my situation I am bad mouthing the employee for not only NOT working but while she is NOT working she is also refusing to assist the rest of the office that IS working with simple tasks like fielding phone calls.


I don't know how to put it more simply.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

I'm not really supporting SBell here because I'm not clear on whether he talked to her directly or not. I wasn't sure whether he meant "I talked to her and it didn't do any good" or "Even if I had talked to her, it wouldn't have done any good." If the former, then yeah, talking to the boss was the right thing to do IMO. If not, then not.


--
You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT.
{Drakeryn}

256 posts in this topic.

Need... contest... now...

--
ExTha

From: Gatarix | #256
I'm not really supporting SBell here because I'm not clear on whether he talked to her directly or not. I wasn't sure whether he meant "I talked to her and it didn't do any good" or "Even if I had talked to her, it wouldn't have done any good." If the former, then yeah, talking to the boss was the right thing to do IMO. If not, then not.

I spoke to her about helping out the office and she's copped an attitude and shrugged it off. Speaking to her about work ethic is like speaking to Vlado about anything. Pointless.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

ExThaNemesis posted...
256 posts in this topic.

Need... contest... now...

play xenogears

--
i'm dumb as hell holy crap -ExThaNemesis

KingButz posted...
Vlado posted...
1. Results (pretty objective term) should be favoured by the management over "hard work" (pretty subjective one).

It stands to reason that(in almost all scenarios) if a certain amount of result is being acheived by X quantity of work, a greater amount of result may be produced by 2X or 3X quantity of work.

If your boss knows that employees A and B are producing X quantity of result when they are capable of producing 2X quantity of result at no greater labor cost, he would replace A and B by hiring employee C who will produce 2X quantity of result and save on his labor costs.

Sorry to butt in but there's a flaw in logic here.

The X is referring to one person's amount of work over a certain amount of time. Person C's X might not be the same as Person A or B.

If I do 10 units of work in 2 hours and someone does 8 units in a lot longer time, I'm still better off.

Vlado posted...
1. Results (pretty objective term) should be favoured by the management over "hard work" (pretty subjective one).

It stands to reason that(in almost all scenarios) if a certain amount of result is being acheived by X quantity of work, a greater amount of result may be produced by 2X or 3X quantity of work.

If your boss knows that employees A and B are producing Y quantity of result when they are capable of producing 2Y quantity of result at no greater labor cost, he would replace A and B by hiring employee C who will produce 2Y quantity of result and save on his labor costs.

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

I edited the post as it was confusing, sorry. I changed the X's in the second sentence to Y's.

Employee C is just as capable as A or B, just not lazy.

X=time spent working

Y=result from working

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Oh geez the more i read this the more I realized I didn't express myself very well.

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Yeah man...when you have two variables there's no way to compare them.

If one guy does X and another guy does 100Y it still doesn't provide any insight. Y could be much smaller than X!

Let me try again.

Ignoring the law of diminishing marginal returns, let's suppose your employees A and B can produce 100 units of output from working 4 hours, but can produce 200 units when working 8 hours. The employees are compensated $400/day. Both employees are lazy and will work for 4 hours each, producing 200 units between them.

It makes sense to replace those 2 employees with employee C who can can also produce 100 units of output from working 4 hours or 200 units when working 8 hours. He chooses to work 8 hours, and now the employer can compensate him up to $799.99/day, maintain the same level of output, and still save on labor costs. Ideally he will compensate the employee $400 and save $400 each day.

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Sure that works with those numbers.

Not really much of a point though. If you switch it so that employee A and B can produce 1000 units of output from even 3 hours it's still better to go that route right? In the end it comes down to results. Yeah you're better off finding a C that can do 1000 but will work 8, but sometimes the choices aren't that nice.

True not all situations are that ideal, but if I had an employee who finished his work after 2 hours, I would send him home after 2 hours. No point in keeping him around the office if he's not working.

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

Makes sense, but generally the thing with lazy people is that those 2 hours of labor are actually going to be spread out over 8 hours.

Lazy people don't like to work for very long at one time! Like this homework I've been "working on" for 6 hours. Of course, my output is pretty measly but that's besides the point.

This topic would have been better if you meant Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.

Well i did give fair warning in my opening Sentence.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

SBell0105 posted...
1. Results are certainly important in the grand scheme of things. In my situation there are No results. There is also no work.

2. Badmouthing a peer for thinking they "don't work hard enough" is certainly a scummy thing to do. Who am I to say they aren't working "hard enough". In my situation I am bad mouthing the employee for not only NOT working but while she is NOT working she is also refusing to assist the rest of the office that IS working with simple tasks like fielding phone calls.

Well, so long as we agree on that, I guess we have more common ground than it initially seemed.

--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html

SBell0105 posted...
I spoke to her about helping out the office and she's copped an attitude and shrugged it off. Speaking to her about work ethic is like speaking to Vlado about anything. Pointless.

...and then you had to post something insulting. -_-

--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html

go figure.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

From: Vlado | #272
...and then you had to post something insulting. -_-

to be fair, Vlado, you haven't been the easiest person to reach on this matter. You've stood your ground and refused to accept that you may not be understanding THIS situation to its fullest.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

pjbasis posted...
Sure that works with those numbers.

Not really much of a point though. If you switch it so that employee A and B can produce 1000 units of output from even 3 hours it's still better to go that route right? In the end it comes down to results. Yeah you're better off finding a C that can do 1000 but will work 8, but sometimes the choices aren't that nice.

Very well said. In the real world, things are very different from the utopia King Butz described.

--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html

SBell0105 posted...
From: Vlado | #272
...and then you had to post something insulting. -_-


to be fair, Vlado, you haven't been the easiest person to reach on this matter. You've stood your ground and refused to accept that you may not be understanding THIS situation to its fullest.

I guess you have a point because I wasn't so interested in this particular situation as in what things should be like on principle. Nevertheless, I gave my opinion of the situation in a simple enough manner in #254.

But really, no hard feelings or anything, you're a reasonable enough dude.

GenesisSaga, on the other hand, really gives me the hostile vibe in this topic.

--
If you like Blitzball, try Captain Tsubasa II (in English) for NES!
Top games: http://unikgamer.com/users/vlado-309.html

And i at no point wanted to argue principle with you. We each have our own opinions as to how a business should be properly run. I don't expect either of us to bend on that.



--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

From: UltimaterializerX | #278
Some things at work (we'll use drug dealing or extreme sexual harassment as examples) absolutely must be brought up through the chain of command.

Neither of them are anywhere near "My co-worker plays Tetris during work hours."

Especially when the person complaining is distracted from his work far more often.

--
TIMJAB

Ulti coming in like SBell's white knight. If Valdo or Maplejet or me or basically anyone he dislikes made this topic he would be against them.

--
You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

Don't even begin to even start to try and trick me.

--
You beat yourself up with your past. Don't blame yourself, blame the world. Blame God. Blame me.

*to

It's "to trick me."

--
My Japanese alter-ego.
Hey all this is Bartz btw.

This topic is awful.

This should have been like a 15 post topic.

--
Warning_Crazy
i am not black turtle as i did not win the guru

W_C, I would have given it 20ish or so and then called it quits.

Can't help how it was received.



I has White Knights!

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

Oh i'm not taking a shot at you. I agree with you close to 100%. And you know your one of my favorite users. This is on Vlado and TimJab. Shocker!

--
Warning_Crazy
i am not black turtle as i did not win the guru

and this is the problem with the internet. >_>

I know you weren't taking any shots at me :P

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

oh

my b

--
Warning_Crazy
i am not black turtle as i did not win the guru

From: GANON1025 | #280
If Valdo or Maplejet or me or basically anyone he dislikes made this topic he would be against them.

He and Vlado seem to agree on a lot of things, actually. Just because he disagrees with him in this one topic means absolutely nothing.

--
Will not remove this line of my signature until the Seahawks, Jazz or Rockies win a title (Started 5-16-09)
Yes, I know I'm never getting rid of this signature

From: GaryOak151 | #286
I agree with you close to 100%.

This is far more damning for you than anything I've said.

--
TIMJAB

Well I wouldn't have told because it the boss's daughter and you might get bad treatment from the man in charge of your job. But i hate working with people like that. Won't pick up a hand to help you no matter how busy you are.

--
Warning_Crazy
i am not black turtle as i did not win the guru

In case anyone was interested (you aren't)

She has taken off Thursday and Friday!

Happy Days are here again.

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg

as opposed to the rest of the days this week lolol


--
You put your RESOLVE HAT back on, which conveniently is the same hat as your NORMAL HAT.
{Drakeryn}

ZING!

--
(\__/)
(='.'=] < http://img.imgcake.com/sbellcardjpgub.jpg