Board 8 > So I'm watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer. *probable spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Sure, Willow isn't my favorite character, more like.. fifth or sixth favorite. Man, that seems low, but nearly every character is so great I like them all and I do really like Willow, man.

I dislike Willow. She's either boring or very whiny and selfish. Xander makes annoying and selfish decisions a lot of the time but atleast he's consistently amusing. Willow is just bleh.

It's funny, because I thought I didn't mind Willow, but rewatching the series, ugh she annoys me.


Lily > Willow for sure.



Anyway, for that episode, I thought it was neat how the class recognized what Buffy does and gave her that award.

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

Season 3, Episode 21: Graduation Day: Part 1

In which nothing goes according to plan.

So after an episode where everybody had their perfect night, we get an episode where curve balls are constantly being thrown. Angel gets poisoned, the Council refuses to help the gang, and Faith is killed but the body runs away. Team Bad Guys seems to have the upper hand.

This episode (and the entire season, really) did a great job of building up the magnitude of what is happening. An unstoppable force is approaching and the gang does not know how to defeat them. Throw in the invincible Mayor showing up to taunt them, and that's pretty ominous. It's brilliant. The sense of the inevitability of the disaster to come is chilling, and I'm hoping the conclusion is climactic as all hell.

The stuff between Xander and Anya is sweet, and again I wouldn't mind if Anya sticks around for Season 4. She was a useful tool in the whole Ascension information thing. It's really neat how they can take what at first seemed like a one-shot character and plot and turn it into a vital part of the main plot. I'm not sure if that was the initial intention or not, but either way, I marvel at the creativity of the introduction and then subsequent use of the character.

Willow and Oz have sex and seem closer than ever. This almost convinces me that Oz is going to finally be killed off as was his destiny all along. At least I know I'll be happy with how his character played off and am not actively hoping for it to happen like I was at the end of Season 2.

I just feel like someone like Oz or Wesley or Anya or hell even Faith potentially is going to have a big martyr-like moment in the upcoming conclusion. It's 3am and I don't feel like waiting until tomorrow to find out, so let's just finish up Season 3 tonight.

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Speaking of HIMYM, you know what freaked me out? The Mayor plays Clint.

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No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga
I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE

I was just made aware of that today, and now I can't unsee it. It's amazing, yet kind of creepy.

Season 3, Episode 22: Graduation Day: Part 2

Sadly, I was a bit disappointed by the finale. I guess part of me is surprised at the synchrony that was quickly put together among all the graduates. It was a good thing that they gave out that Protector award, otherwise I would've been hard pressed to believe they'd even believe her that some big demon was going to try and destroy them all. And I understand that it needs to be resolved in some way, but the demon seemed too easily dispatched. When he transformed, he just kind of stood there taking shots from all the students and tearing through them (though he got Principal Snyder may he R.I.P.) until Buffy got him to get assploded. When are the forces of evil going to learn that Buffy is super effective against serpentine monsters?

Additionally, not much conclusion seemed to be reached. I imagine most of that will be cleared up in the Season 4 premiere, but I wouldn't have liked waiting for that had I been watching this in real time. What do the futures hold for the gang? The one thing I was probably most satisfied was the resolution of Cordelia-Wesley, which had a very fitting and humorous end. It was almost like a self-aware moment by the writers with the whole "yeah, this was a terrible and awkward idea and we should just end this right now." I'm not saying they had greater plans for the pairing, because they had to realize there wasn't much they could do with it. Honestly, it went better than I could have ever imagined it going. Kudos.

I don't know. I did enjoy the episode for the most part, but not as much as I thought I should have. I put large emphasis and expectations on season finale episodes, so that doesn't normally help. It just kind of leaves a bit of a sour note on what I thought was an otherwise great season. I loved the Season 2 finale, so I was hoping the same would be true of Season 3, but it wasn't.

I'll have post-Season 3 thoughts tomorrow at some point.

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I really dig that finale. Different strokes etc, sounds kinda like in some ways you wanted it to be like a series finale. I mean, how much resolution can you have here?

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I thought that the actual effects of the giant monster and how it were killed were kinda lame, but overall it was a great final battle considering there was more going on than just it vs Buffy. Sure there wasn't much in the way of development during the battle, but I think Buffy/Angel and the whole thing with Faith was good enough.

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

From: Psycho_Kenshin | #406
I really dig that finale. Different strokes etc, sounds kinda like in some ways you wanted it to be like a series finale. I mean, how much resolution can you have here?

I wanted resolution in all the other story lines that had been going on. What is to happen to Faith? Is Wesley just going to go back to England without another word? What are the college choices for Xander, Oz, and Cordelia, and additionally to Cordelia, is she going to be able to recover from her family screwing up? Things like that were just kind of dropped after that final battle. Like I said, I expect most of them to be cleared up at the start of Season 4 (save maybe the Wesley deal), but it would've been nice to know what happens now and I was hoping to get that payoff since I had been invested in them throughout the season.

From: CoolCly | #407
I thought that the actual effects of the giant monster and how it were killed were kinda lame, but overall it was a great final battle considering there was more going on than just it vs Buffy. Sure there wasn't much in the way of development during the battle, but I think Buffy/Angel and the whole thing with Faith was good enough.

Yeah, the monster effects are very 90s, so I try not to be critical on points like that. And a final battle bringing together all the classmates was an interesting touch, as rushed and patched together as it seemed. It would've been cool if, like, you could see the student body coming together and understanding the magnitude of the situation, and not just little "hey I need to talk to you" moments during a preparation montage. Maybe I'm asking for too much. Like I said, I put a lot of personal hope and emphasis on finale episodes.

And I know Angel said he was just going to leave, and he did that, but dammit a relationship like that deserves a final scene, and it would've been nice to get it here. Same with the deal involving Faith.

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eh invincible monsters never learn how to deal with modern weaponry

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From: ZaziGuado | #408
It would've been cool if, like, you could see the student body coming together and understanding the magnitude of the situation

Eh, you can just go back to The Prom episode. The class saying things like "we know weird crap happens that isn't normal" so the whole thing probably wasn't too hard to understand. *shrug*

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

plus it would ruin the surprise to show a scene like that

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Boring sig is boring

I hope it's not spoilers to say that none of those things have been dropped.

eh invincible monsters never learn how to deal with modern weaponry

You know, that is kind of a theme of the show. How much trouble many monsters and demons have adapting. I still love Trick's "it's called an uzi, it would have saved your life right now" line. The most dangerous enemies are usually those that can adapt with the times.

I can see you issue with Grad day as it isn't a super epic battle type finale, its meant to be more of a fun and exciting end to a season that has really tried to mix fun and exciting (see: the Mayor's dualistic personality). Its another ep where expectation and mindset can really affect enjoyment.

I watch something like Farscape for big dramatic epic finale's, I don't tend to expect more than a fun episode with a big battle from Buffy.

And as a warning (not really spoilers don't worry) try not to go in with any expectations for the season 4 finale. Just watch and absorb.

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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris

I loved Graduation Day (both parts). I can understand being a little disappointed with the battle and special effects, but as far as the story and everything went I thought it was fantastic. And I loved the way the final goodbye between Angel and Buffy was handled.

You'll learn the answers to most of those things you wanted to see wrapped up, but one thing you've probably already learned about Buffy is sometimes you have to be patient for while before they get back to stuff.

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I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience

This topic is really making me want to watch Buffy again. (And Angel... I've only watched those exactly once. The problem with Angel though is that you have to wait sooo long for the payoff. Season 5 is amazing, but seasons 1-4 are just alright.

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I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience

It's making me want to go and finish Angel, but I don't have much free time for the foreseeable future.

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No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga
I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE

character rankings goooooooo

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

More episodes go go go.

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

Right, should probably give my overall opinions of Season 3 and then other stuffs. This overview is going to suck, though.

Season 3 was very consistent quality-wise, which is hard for me because it causes a lot of it to blend together. The highs weren't as high as Season 2, but the lows weren't as low, either. Really, there were very few lows in this season at all. I most enjoyed how every episode seemed to add, even in a small way, to the overarching plot. Continuity is one of my favorite things in a television show, so every episode building upon each other and referencing things from the past is a huge positive for me.

Off the top of my head:

The Good: The Mayor being delightfully evil, the continuity, lots of character growth, Oz doesn't suck anymore

The Bad: Trick was poorly used, I didn't like Faith, the finale disappointed me

Character ranking:
Giles
The Mayor
Buffy
Xander
Wesley
-gap-
Cordelia
Oz
Angel
-gap-
Willow
Faith

I should probably expand on why I didn't like Faith. Her immaturity annoyed me, for one. I tired of watching her prancing around killing people and not taking it seriously. Calling Buffy by the letter B was annoying, too. The character seemed slightly forced, too. I wish they would've dove a little bit deeper into why Faith was so easily persuaded to join the Mayor. They dropped enough hints involving parents and her childhood and all that, but an actual scene devoted to bringing all of this out, or something like that, would've been really helpful in having me appreciate the character and where she came from more. I understand that when it comes down to it, you weren't supposed to like Faith. She was the foil to Buffy and was meant to be an obstacle. I'm not sure how much longer she has on the show, but if she gets continued stay in Season 4, I hope she improves greatly.

I can't really do an episode ranking because not many truly stick out immediately in my mind. I'll just say which ones were notably good (in no specific order):
Lover's Walk
Anne
The Wish
The Zeppo (I know I kind of hated on this before, but I've grown to appreciate it more as time has passed)
The Prom

Five seems like a good number.

So yeah, finally:

Season 2 > Season 3 > Season 1

Despite a couple of lows, episodes like Passion and Innocence vault Season 2 above the consistency and continuity of Season 3. I don't imagine Season 1 will ever move.

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GIles #1 yay!

I've never really liked Faith either, but my impression is that most people do.
Angel low seems about right; thankfully he's way better in his own series.

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No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga
I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE

I didn't like Faith either.

I liked Faith a lot more after she went evil. And I liked the relationship between her and the Mayor.

But I can also understand ranking her below everyone. Admittedly her character just isn't that deep compared to everyone else who has been on the show for a while, nor does she have the screen presence of the Mayor.

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"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

I liked Faith once she joined with the Mayor.

I don't imagine Season 1 will ever move.

I heavily doubt it.

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(Maniac64 at work)
Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic

Season 4, Episode 1: The Freshman

In which everyone at UC Sunnydale is a douche, Buffy gets the crap beat out of her, and Xander is the stalwart.

I think this episode overblew how overwhelming the first day of classes at college is. For one, there should’ve been an orientation, or at the very least a personal tour, that Buffy had taken beforehand to get a feel for the area. Secondly, I don’t imagine all professors are that douchey, especially in what are probably typical freshman level classes. And lastly, this is freakin’ UC Sunnydale. Why would an esteemed and notable Professor of Psychology be doing there when she could be at UCLA, USC, or any other UC school that is probably better than Sunnydale, in conjunction with Sunnydale having the ominous reputation it does? Of course, this is me looking for into the context. I imagine I’ll forget about all of this by the second episode.

Seeing Buffy as the one having the most trouble with the transition was interesting, though I guess it makes sense. Willow thrives in the academic setting, Oz is cool guy extraordinaire, and Xander isn’t going there so he doesn’t have as much of a transition to make involving lifestyle. This reminds me that I don’t remember Charisma Carpenter having been in the opening credits, though I could just not be remembering as I watched the episode 24 hours ago. Either why, I hope they explain in short time what she ended up doing, as well as all the other things that I was hoping they would clear up in the Season 3 finale but didn’t.

As for the episode plot itself, it was good. Good one-shot villain and all that. Good struggles for Buffy, awesome inspiration from Xander, and it was great to see everyone realizing how silly they were kind of being and rush to Buffy’s aid at the end.

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I always thought it was weird that Willow would choose UC Sunnydale over Harvard Yale and wherever else she got in; kinda breaks the suspension of disbelief. I guess they had to make that happen to keep her as part of the show, though.

I don't know why they had Buffy getting into Northwestern, either; it didn't make sense and ended up being pointless.

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No I'm not a damn furry. Looney Tunes are different. - Guiga
I wanted Sonic/Shadow romance at that time, not sex. - MWE

From: LordoftheMorons | #425
I always thought it was weird that Willow would choose UC Sunnydale over Harvard Yale and wherever else she got in; kinda breaks the suspension of disbelief. I guess they had to make that happen to keep her as part of the show, though.

Yeah, I agree. In general high school shows have a lot of trouble transitioning to college because realistically you're not going to have most of your cast sticking together. But rather than having Willow decide not to go to Harvard, they could have had some monster of the week prevent her from sending her application on time or something like that.

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I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience

Why would an esteemed and notable Professor of Psychology be doing there when she could be at UCLA, USC, or any other UC school that is probably better than Sunnydale, in conjunction with Sunnydale having the ominous reputation it does?

what better place to do psych research than a hellmouth?! surely there must be lots of interesting subjects! >_>;;

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Uh, that was actually a point brought up in season 3. Willow got into a ton of amazing schools, but after havinga face off with Faith at the Mayor's office she decided that just going off to be a doctor or lawyer or whatever isn't what she wants. She wants to spend her life doing what they already do; fight evil. Buffy never chose to be the slayer and fight evil even if she's accepted it, but Willow actually decides that's what she wants to do.


also Angel gogogo

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

Angel: Season 1, Episode 1

In which Angel beats people up, walks around in the daylight, and starts a mystery team with Cordelia and some Irish half-demon guy named Doyle.

So, I get a "Batman: Private Eye" kind of feel from this, which is pretty cool. I liked this first episode a lot. People were saying it was going to be a darker and more serious tone, and while I pick up darker and a little more serious, the humor is still there and was all on point for me. My question about Cordelia was answered, which was nice, though I would've liked knowing what she was actually leaving to do via a mention or something from Buffy4 premiere, but whatever. I already like Angel more in a no-Buffy interaction setting, though his phone call to her at the end of the episode was a cute "hey we are still in the Buffyverse and she still exists" kind of way.

One thing that did kind of bug me was how he did stuff during the day. I saw there was a sewer system and stuff, but I question how he got to Russell Winters in the day to kick him out of window. Am I supposed to assume sewers again? Also, the cuts to scenes is really annoying to me, and I hope they find a smoother way to cut from scene to scene.

I was quite impressed with this beginning of this show and look forward to watching more.

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snowpork
Also...I can kill you with my brain.

Angel opening or Buffy opening?

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

Buffy opening for sure. Still love that Power Rangers feel I get from it. Angel opening hasn't had much chance to grow on me, but I don't see it passing Buffy.

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From: ZaziGuado | #429
Am I supposed to assume sewers again?

Pretty much, yeah

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Angel will be going through the sewers a lot in this series. Though usually more explicitly than that.

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"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

I love the music of the Angel opening.

But yeah, Angel is so much better on his own show. Buffy is pretty amazing at making him a boring character.

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No amount of planning will ever replace dumb luck.

I love the music of the Angel opening.

But yeah, Angel is so much better on his own show. Buffy is pretty amazing at making him a boring character.

this

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I'm "kind of a big deal".
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woo, angel time

and just for the record, i am almost finished watching both and i used that watching guide people posted before all the way, it was pretty helpful. a lot of the time it doesn't matter, but it's fun to follow it anyway because you never know when it will.

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Everyone has a right to sarcasm. It's like murder, except legal. - MYC

Oh, and I totally forgot to mention.

Originally, Doyle was going to be Whistler from the Buffy S2 finale, but for whatever reason the actor couldn't/wouldn't do it. So they just cast someone else and made him a new character. In case it ever starts to bug you how pointless Whistler ended up being, and how similar the 2 characters' roles are.

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"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

the humor is still there and was all on point for me.

Oh, we might have overemphasized the difference. There is definitely plenty of humor in Angel. That is still what I love most about Joss Whedon, how he mixes action, comedy, drama in one show. Angel just focuses more on the drama where Buffy focuses more on the comedy.

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(Maniac64 at work)
Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic

Angel - Season 1, Episode 2: Lonely Hearts

In which a demon gets laid on the reg and Angel makes a new frenemy.

Not sure how much I have to say about this episode. Good, unpredictable villain. Good humor. Good development of the characters. Good foil to Angel. Good everything, really. Hopefully they find more use for Cordelia and Doyle, because they just kind of sat around this episode. This season seems like it's going to be interesting because they might wait awhile before introducing an overarching plot outside of "Angel tries to adjust to life in L.A."

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I really like that episode. It is kind of a cheesy plot and I normally don't dig MOTW episodes too much, but that one is well done.

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I'm "kind of a big deal".
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I definitely like the Buffy opening music better... I always loved that one, whereas I didn't care that much about the Angel music.

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I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience

So am I the only one who gets a serious "Buffy" vibe from X-men Evolutions opening? It always reminded me of the same type of feeling to it and the same style of opening video. And then it used Angel style scene changes sometimes.

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(Maniac64 at work)
Guns don't kill people, Kinder eggs do. I saw it in a post on GameFAQs. ~FAHtastic

Want Buffy episode. XD

not enough angel opening fans itt

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"Oh God, maplejet's trying to be cool again. I'll call the ambulance." - Wylvane
[NO BARKLEY NO PEACE]

my favorite part of the angel opening is how he kicks down the door right as the song picks up

its amazing

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i love both, but i gotta give an edge to the angel theme because violins/cello stuffs rock.

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From: SemiFinal vs Belarus | #444
not enough angel opening fans itt

The Angel opening is great.

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"Hope is allowed to be stupid, unwise, and naive." ~Sir Chris

Angel opening for life

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The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG

Firefly OP > Angel OP >= Buffy OP >>> Dollhouse OP

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"One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land."
-Toad, SMB3

Buffy - Season 4, Episode 2: Living Conditions

In which Buffy's roommate sucks. Souls, that is.

This episode kind of bored me. Not much really happened, just roommate drama that has never interested me in the first place. I also guess at the start that the "she" that the demons were talking about, for whatever reason that it may be, was Kathy and not Buffy. I'm glad Kathy is gone, though. Having a roommate character that Buffy has to tiptoe around would've been an annoying obstacle throughout the season, and things will be much smoother with Buffy and Willow as roommates.

So far I'm not liking the college era. Things have seemed a lot more rough around the edges, which I guess I'm not surprised about. It was a lot easier to have the characters around each other in high school. But now you have both Giles and Xander not on campus with the rest of the gang, so you have to write reasons for them actually being around. I wouldn't be surprised that if once the writing figures out how to seamlessly have the characters around each other and not make transitions from campus to off campus seem, I don't know, forced perhaps, I might end up liking the college era more than high school.

They just need to pull a Boy Meets World and make Giles the dean of UC Sunnydale. Or, like, a librarian. It's convenient, but much like with the whole Dean Feeny thing, I wouldn't care because it gives Giles more of a reason to be in the gang's lives.

Next: Buffy Episode 3

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