Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 179: Where Superman gets hit by a car

(+) Yeah! (+)

And then lifts the worlds strongest man

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Circle gets the Scare!
http://img.imgcake.com/nio/40scarepnguz.png

Lopen posted...
I'm just saying the Edge/Vickie dynamic worked fine so it's doable. Dolph just needs to be the one wearing the pants, so to speak, and he's not. You can say it has to do with his credibility I think it's more about who has control over the mic time.

But that's kinda my point: Dolph needs to establish himself without Vickie in order to have a more defined character and role. Edge was already well established. Everyone knew his role and his character before they were paired up.

By removing Vickie from the situation, Dolph has nothing to but sink or swim. If you keep Vickie, she's like a cheap life-preserver: you know she'll get heat and you know she'll get the reaction. What you need to know is can Dolph do it by himself.

If you just drop Vickie and let Dolph go after it, you'll really get how far you can go with Dolph. If Dolph can't get the fans to react to him on the mic on his own, then he's really not cut out for the Main Event scene.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

And Batman's father was an alcoholic.

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Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police
http://i.imgur.com/ZgM5O.png

If Cena is Superman and CM Punk is Batman, what are Rock and Jericho?

You can't really use Joker for Jericho, and I'd like to say he's more a Bane type of villain but Jericho is just so tiny...

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

In either case you have to give Dolph a chance to run. You can say Vickie's a cheap life preserver, which she is, but if you drop Vickie there's nothing saying that Dolph doesn't also just stop getting mic time entirely, either. Dropping Vickie and giving Dolph a chance to run some mic segments or keeping Vickie and giving Dolph a chance to run some mic segments is the same thing pretty much. It's not about Vickie.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

Jericho is Hush.

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Ace Detective in Sir Chris' Police
http://i54.tinypic.com/ru343c.jpg

No, see, the difference is that Vickie comes out and gets the audience nice and pissed off with her screechy excuse me, so Dolph doesn't have to do much to keep the crowd angry.

Without Vickie, Dolph now has to antagonize the crowd on his own.

Big difference between the two.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

The only difference there is in how much you're testing Dolph, really, which can easily be done by just having Vickie put out for a few weeks if you want to do that. But Dolph will still get most of the heat if he actually has control of the interview, no matter if Vickie warmed them up or not. The audience won't remember Vickie in the end if Dolph does his job well.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

The only difference there is in how much you're testing Dolph, really, which can easily be done by just having Vickie put out for a few weeks if you want to do that. But Dolph will still get most of the heat if he actually has control of the interview, no matter if Vickie warmed them up or not. The audience won't remember Vickie in the end if Dolph does his job well.

The problem is that I've seen the non-reaction these guys can get without Vickie instigating the crowd.

You know I remember a couple weeks back in that triple threat tag team when Swagger cleared house and taunted the crowd. He got NOTHING from them.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

swagger's issue is that they buried him so hard the crowd doesn't know what to think of him anymore.

dolph can be fine on his own.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

HGahahahahaha holy crap. Superstar spoilers are amazing. Don't read them if you want to remain unspoiled(and there IS something worth spoiling this time, so it's your call)

www.Rot13.com

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...
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Wanglicious posted...
swagger's issue is that they buried him so hard the crowd doesn't know what to think of him anymore.

dolph can be fine on his own.

Which is why I'd keep Swagger and Vickie together and have Dolph go off on his own.

If he can be fine on his own, he should be able to prove it. No need to keep hanging around with Vickie, especially if (Heaven Forbid) she decides to leave the company or something happens to her.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Well the thing is Dolph and Swagger don't have control of the interviews right now so their hate is all directed at Vickie.

That doesn't mean it has anything to do with Vickie's presence there. Suddenly removing her isn't going to change the fact that they're having trouble getting a reaction. But it has nothing to do with their ability on the mic either it has everything to do with the audience just not hating them right now.

Your two options to fix that are:

1. Cut off Vickie and let the two of them limp around for a while
2. Leave Vickie there but only for the cheap EXCUSE ME and then let them run with the mic for the rest of the segment repeatedly

I think option 1 is better for testing the two of em, where option 2 is actually better for making the audience hate them more efficiently in the long run (and making the segments in between better).

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

if option 1 happened swagger'd be future endeavored within 3 months for the guy. they've done nothing but move him into 'intimidating midcard who we want to pretend is upper midcard still but has somehow fallen to the dead center of it.'

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

Swagger can't survive without Vickie right now.

Dolph SHOULD be able to if he's the future of the company.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Suddenly removing her isn't going to change the fact that they're having trouble getting a reaction. But it has nothing to do with their ability on the mic either it has everything to do with the audience just not hating them right now.

Let's be honest: if they can't get the audience to hate them on their own, they have a very limited ceiling in terms of what they can do in the WWE.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

no it doesn't, it means that they got so over as heels that they crossed that line into being face. it happens, and has been happening semi-frequently. honestly if ziggler turned face right now he'd get huge pops. he's very easy to like. same reason why henry wasnt' getting boo'd really last night - people don't want to boo him.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

He was also facing Cena.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

From: TheRock1525 | #016
Let's be honest: if they can't get the audience to hate them on their own, they have a very limited ceiling in terms of what they can do in the WWE.

I disagree with this. The reason the audience doesn't hate them is because 1. Vickie gets the majority of the mic time and 2. They have a natural charisma. So any hate to the unit gravitates towards Vickie.

Thing is a lot of fan reaction is based entirely on the existing reaction. Like uh, The Rock for instance wouldn't be able to mold crowds with what he's doing if he was just a midcarder in the nation of domination-- it's clear his mic work isn't up to snuff with the stuff that got him to the top in the first place. Same thing with CM Punk and mid last year vs CM Punk now.

It's the same with Vickie. A lot of the reason people hate Vickie is because she's established herself as very hateable. Dolph and Swagger haven't really done that due to being overwhelmed by Vickie so yeah they don't have that base to work with. Basically to get to the point where the audience hates them they need a little push in the right direction and to just not screw it up for a few months or they need to cut some amazing promos to really make them hated and not screw it up terribly later.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

Rad Link 5 posted...
Jericho is Hush.

But Hush is lame and Jericho is not.

Let's just agree that marginalizing Vickie is important to establishing these guys: whether he's completely putting her out of the picture or not is where we disagree.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Yeah I'm just arguing because I think that Wang is closer to right than you are. You remove Vickie and I think they (Swagger especially) fall off the map sooner than they become established! The problem is that Vickie is a great manager but only as a manager. She's not being used as a manager right now probably cause WWE has forgotten how managers even work.

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No problem!
This is a cute and pop genocide of love!

oh if she's gone and Ziggler stays on Raw honestly i see him die painfully there. he needs Smackdown. i honestly see him getting drafted to SD to go on his own, work some matches with Dragon, Christian, Sheamus, and Orton. he just fits so much better there and they aren't building superman on that show, but they are building a guy who is kayfabe at the level, has opponents at the level, and every bit his equal.

(i absolutely love how they just keep forcing the two champions on equal footing.)

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

I did say to keep Swagger with Vickie.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

If WWE allowed Ziggler to cut promos like he does on ZTLIS he'd become the most over wrestler on the roster in about a month.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/218-pro-wrestling-wwe/62307078

goddamn

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"With Harry, it's cool. We don't speak a lot and he doesn't care if I smile or if I know who the next team we play is." - Benoit Assou-Ekotto

if lumberjack matches are the gimmick they're gonna try a ppv on i hope that ppv does the worst sales ever. they ALWAYS suck. the idea of sealing everyone inside the ring is great, but lumberjacks just aren't the way to go.

the other options however are all hardcore matches.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

From: TheRock1525 | #004
If Cena is Superman and CM Punk is Batman, what are Rock and Jericho?

You can't really use Joker for Jericho, and I'd like to say he's more a Bane type of villain but Jericho is just so tiny...

Jericho is Riddler and I don't know enough about Superman to know about his villans beyond Lex Luthor. I always felt Edge was his Luthor though so yeah. Bizzaro superman?

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Circle gets the Scare!
Imagine if Jesus knew kung fu. That's what everyone is dealing with

bizzaro kinda sucks.
batista can be doomsday though.

supes just doesn't really have a villain he consistently loses to that would fit edge (the pool's small enough already).

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

tag

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I am absolute corruption.
I am the power that sways. I am the beast that's in human nature. I am the masonry of greed.

punk is dr horrible and this is still my favorite video of all time



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Boko United - MenjiTMFan267
Guru Taken Miraculously by SuperNiceDog

Of course, they could try having Swagger turn face on Vickie, and run with that for a bit

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

Nothing can save Swagger, let's be therious.

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If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person? [HERO'S PLUNGE]
http://img.imgcake.com/finegifdy.gif

JR/Swagger as superheel stable COME ON

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Boko United - MenjiTMFan267
Guru Taken Miraculously by SuperNiceDog

This topic was talking about how an FCW wrestler earns about the same as an indie wrestler with the bonus of being able to move up to earn more in the company.

How much does a lower end TNA wrestler earn?

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Boko United - MenjiTMFan267
Guru Taken Miraculously by SuperNiceDog

tag

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http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lt37rzo2Jk1r4d7qpo11_r2_400.gif

Tag.

low end TNA honestly should be indies-level. no salary, but you're in a single area and are doing safer work. still, you see them dabble in other feds for good reason.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

From: Wanglicious | #038
but you're in a single area

What?

TNA tours cross-country constantly now.

Only people like Sting, Hogan, and Angle get to ONLY do TV tapings.

Their house show main events are stuff like Jeff Hardy vs. Bully Ray or Bobby Roode vs. A.J. Styles.

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

...oh yeaah. i forget that tna travels. ...eh, it's still less travel than they'd be doing in the indies. you haven't seen travel until you realize some people will do 4 shows in a weekend somehow.

or twice that.

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The King Wang.
Listen up Urinal Cake. I already have something that tells me if I'm too drunk when I pee on it: My friends. - Colbert.

so low end WWE = low end TNA = average indies?

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Boko United - MenjiTMFan267
Guru Taken Miraculously by SuperNiceDog

Well the big difference is that low-end WWE = salaried and low-end TNA/average indies = pay-per-appearance.

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

One more question.

If indies is pay-per-appearance, if they are booked, they drive to the show and find out they are no longer booked, do they get paid? Are they down their gas money?

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Boko United - MenjiTMFan267
Guru Taken Miraculously by SuperNiceDog

Some thoughts after being away for a couple days:

--Raw was bleh. You guys seem to have that covered.

--LOL Shane Douglas. What an idiot. Both Dynamic Dudes were in the house though!

--Victory Road was another decent TNA PPV, aside from the excessively mediocre main event with the uncomfortable post-match. TNA sure knows how to send the fans home happy...with Bobby Roode molesting Dixie Carter!

I wasn't pimping Victory Road like the last two TNA PPVs because I'm against the concept of this being treated as "the road to Lockdown" despite being the same price and having a longer build. It seems ridiculous to actively sell it as inferior to the next PPV but for the same price. It's one thing to do it with Elimination Chamber where at least there's the Chamber gimmick to sell and the "last chance to get into the WM title hunt" concept, but here it's just silly. It would be like marketing Bragging Rights as the Road to Survivor Series.

That said, Aries once again stole the show, and Angle vs. Hardy was ***1/2 MotN.

Sting is SO washed up in the ring that it's sad, really. The one thing that really makes me hesitate about wanting him to do one WM match in WWE is watching all of his TNA matches the last couple years and seeing how much smoke and mirrors are required to get through his matches. Putting over A.J. Styles at Bound For Glory 2009 really should have been the end for him.

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

From: GTM | #043
If indies is pay-per-appearance, if they are booked, they drive to the show and find out they are no longer booked, do they get paid? Are they down their gas money?

Most likely they would not, and then in turn they would most likely never take bookings from that promoter ever again.

Gas money isn't even covered by WWE, so tough luck indie kid!

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

Flo Rida was announced for a live performance of The Rock's theme music at WrestleMania.

How is Flo Rida going to perform The Rock's theme? There's no lyrics!

Unless he's just going to say "The Rock Says" over and over. Then that would be awesome.

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TheRock ~ Slow dramatic zoom-pan. Doesn't phase the hooded man.
"You have issues." - MWC. Pot. Kettle.

Austin Aries was somehow not good enough for Tough Enough but Andy was.

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Dr voltchball - best in the world.

I wasn't pimping Victory Road like the last two TNA PPVs because I'm against the concept of this being treated as "the road to Lockdown" despite being the same price and having a longer build. It seems ridiculous to actively sell it as inferior to the next PPV but for the same price. It's one thing to do it with Elimination Chamber where at least there's the Chamber gimmick to sell and the "last chance to get into the WM title hunt" concept, but here it's just silly. It would be like marketing Bragging Rights as the Road to Survivor Series.

Agree with this 100%. $10 cost difference aside, the chamber matters and can be billed as "road to Wrestlemania" because the results have SERIOUS implications for wrestlemania. People REALLY want to know who is going to win in the chamber because it affects what TWO matches we're going to get at WM.

Nothing at Victory Road affected Lockdown at all, except a last minute completely-obvious-winner situation with Storm and Bully.

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SmartMuffin - Because anything less would be uncivilized - http://img.imgcake.com/smartmuffin/barkleyjpgde.jpg
http://dudewheresmyfreedom.com/

I think if they're gonna use Victory Road this way, then it makes perfect sense to also use it as a guinea pig for tinkering with the PPV model.

If they want to book it the way it was booked and call it The Road to Lockdown and charge, say, $20 for it, that's completely acceptable. It's a way to say "This is more important than an episode of Impact, but not as important as a real PPV."

Although if you're gonna do that, you probably don't want to end the PPV with an angle that leaves everyone feeling dirty and gross.

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Thank you, Eddie Guerrero.
http://bryandanielson.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/photo3.jpg

Jakyl, that changes things.

And if you change things they WILL fail.

Why would you change things when they're clearly broken and will likely result in better success?

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Xbox GT: PrivateBiscuit1
Down with Zhang. Let there be Biscuit!