Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Diablo and Vanille vs. Dark Samus

(+) Yeah! (+)

counterpoint: the lord of terror jobs to people far less powerful than samus
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MenuWars posted...

You're talking to me about warped arguments when you're arguing someone that jobs to Samus on the regular, can single handedly obliterate the literal "Lord of Terror".

Well I think the point was that the fight is going to take a long time regardless of who you think wins and the phazon in the terrain + clones + stealth make Vanille a factor for very little of the fight.
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Lopen posted...

- Does Dark Samus have any healing.

She doesn't have healing until character upgrade, BUT on this terrain she has functional healing by using phazon as a shield against attacks
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Also what's the nature of Dark Samus's durability

Like she takes the form of the suit-- but she's not actually the suit? Does she have shields? Is she just a hunk of plot armor vs Samus's guns? Do we have anything that shows her as durable besides "Samus has to shoot her lots" and "she's made of Phazon?"
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FFDragon posted...

counterpoint: the lord of terror jobs to people far less powerful than samus

counterpoint: depends on how you take the lore of the games tbh, for example seeing as Samus has been in Smash it can be argued she's jobbed to Mario, and Diablo would tear Mario's little head off.
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MenuWars posted...

for example seeing as Samus has been in Smash it can be argued she's jobbed to Mario,

no

it literally cannot
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MenuWars posted...

You're talking to me about warped arguments when you're arguing someone that jobs to Samus on the regular, can single handedly obliterate the literal "Lord of Terror".

Excuse me, who jobs to Samus on the regular? Dark Samus is beaten exactly once in this form, when Samus has supermode enabled. Her other losses are as Metroid Prime (WAY weaker) and as her protohuman form (also considerably lesser). She takes exactly one loss per form and then evolves IIRC (maybe she lost a couple times in her MP2 form, I forget). Meanwhile Diablo has...no feats. Remember that time he jobbed to Diablo 2 characters? Or to the solo Diablo 1 warrior? >_>
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nice, menuwars going full retard in another topic

i love merx
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MajinZidane posted...

I have the vid RIGHT HERE

https://youtu.be/ecWJBum2jSc?t=2204

Okay hold up

-First of all she wasnt in constant flight, she was chilling on the ground to fire off
-Her shots were taken and everyone got up, and moreso was slow enough for Samus to even dodge
-Samus GOT UP and did shit before she passed out. Its possible she even passed out from exhaustion in that situation. So one shotting is overselling by quite a bit there.
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hey we established diablo definitely lost to all 3 in D1
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Lopen posted...

Also what's the nature of Dark Samus's durability

Like she takes the form of the suit-- but she's not actually the suit? Does she have shields? Is she just a hunk of plot armor vs Samus's guns? Do we have anything that shows her as durable besides "Samus has to shoot her lots" and "she's made of Phazon?"

You see it partly in the vid Boko posted but it's a combination of her having a shield, no-selling your normal weaponry across the game when you meet her, taking absolutely forever to die in a game where bosses can be made to job in like two minutes if you play right, and above all incredibly substantial lore hype. The Prime series is very consistent with its codex entries, and it goes way out of its way to show off that Phazon lifeforms only really job to Phazon. Enemies no-sell normal weaponry across the entire series and Damus is the ultimate Phazon lifeform by a mile.
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I never did understand Diablo hype considering he always seemed like a strong end game boss to a game with minimal tech.
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FFDragon posted...

hey we established diablo definitely lost to all 3 in D1

OK true, he didn't get SOLO'D

But it's still really sorry because the Warrior, Rogue and Mage probably would be lucky to be 2/weeks if they were in this game. The D2 crowd fares better, but I'd take like none of them over Tidus.
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As I said it depends on what you regard as stronger, especially if you're arguing game mechanics the characters in the Diablo universe straight up shit on anything Metroid's in terms of durability and raw power.
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Kinglicious posted...

I never did understand Diablo hype considering he always seemed like a strong end game boss to a game with minimal tech.

It makes sense with D3 Diablo because that game is actually visually impressive with what your toons can do and if it IS canon that it took one of every class to kill Diablo then he's a truly mondo tank. D2 Diablo though, yyyyyeah.
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-Samus GOT UP and did shit before she passed out. Its possible she even passed out from exhaustion in that situation. So one shotting is overselling by quite a bit there.

Really Scare

'Samus crawls away using her heroic willpower and barely finishes the mission' isn't a functional oneshot? The point is she was totally incapable of fighting after. >_>
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MenuWars posted...

the characters in the Diablo universe straight up shit on anything Metroid's in terms of durability and raw power.

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MenuWars posted...

As I said it depends on what you regard as stronger, especially if you're arguing game mechanics the characters in the Diablo universe straight up shit on anything Metroid's in terms of durability and raw power.

Nobody is arguing game mechanics here. We're using lore, cutscenes, and general inference from gameplay without directly taking it as gospel.
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Not my fault she pressed a button and took a nap!
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The problem with "Phazon only jobs to Phazon" as a method of destruction is Phazon isn't very well defined within the lore of a world that isn't Metroid. I would kinda be more convinced she's really that durable vs say, magic, if she took damage from your non phazon stuff but she could just take a lot of it.

Magic tends to punch through traditional defenses in general so I'm not really sure Diablo doesn't have the tools for good damage here.
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FFDragon posted...

MenuWars posted...

the characters in the Diablo universe straight up shit on anything Metroid's in terms of durability and raw power.

Diablo
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

MenuWars posted...

As I said it depends on what you regard as stronger, especially if you're arguing game mechanics the characters in the Diablo universe straight up shit on anything Metroid's in terms of durability and raw power.

Nobody is arguing game mechanics here. We're using lore, cutscenes, and general inference from gameplay without directly taking it as gospel.

I would say lore goes to the guy beating up the guardians of the gate of heaven and kicking ass over someone who's big feat is knocking out a space pirate
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Fanboy more over Damus the jobber ladies.
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ScareChan posted...

Not my fault she pressed a button and took a nap!

Yes, a month long nap...with the doctor afterward saying 'we thought we'd lost you'. >____>
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Oh and by the way Diablo in mercs cannot be compared to D1 or D2 diablo in any way, shape, or form. With the Black Soulstone he is magnitudes stronger.
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KanzarisKelshen posted...

Lopen posted...

Also what's the nature of Dark Samus's durability

Like she takes the form of the suit-- but she's not actually the suit? Does she have shields? Is she just a hunk of plot armor vs Samus's guns? Do we have anything that shows her as durable besides "Samus has to shoot her lots" and "she's made of Phazon?"

You see it partly in the vid Boko posted but it's a combination of her having a shield, no-selling your normal weaponry across the game when you meet her, taking absolutely forever to die in a game where bosses can be made to job in like two minutes if you play right, and above all incredibly substantial lore hype. The Prime series is very consistent with its codex entries, and it goes way out of its way to show off that Phazon lifeforms only really job to Phazon. Enemies no-sell normal weaponry across the entire series and Damus is the ultimate Phazon lifeform by a mile.

Pretty much what Kanzaris said, combined w/ the fact she can gather more phazon to have more more phazon shield.

Another cool thing she can do is make physical barriers with phazon, perhaps locking people like Vanille into nasty phazon areas


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Diablo lives in the gates of hell. How comparable is Phazon to Hellfire? Who is to say that Hellfire isnt exponentially more intense than Phazon
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What. Even the tankiest Diablo characters still take damage from bows. Not even magical ones, just regular, high quality bows. Durability is not their forte.
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Kinglicious posted...

What. Even the tankiest Diablo characters still take damage from bows. Not even magical ones, just regular, high quality bows. Durability is not their forte.

Not really, no. There's a regen stat on pretty much all high level diablo monsters that will outpace the damage of standard bows pretty handily.
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Lopen posted...

The problem with "Phazon only jobs to Phazon" as a method of destruction is Phazon isn't very well defined within the lore of a world that isn't Metroid. I would kinda be more convinced she's really that durable vs say, magic, if she took damage from your non phazon stuff but she could just take a lot of it.

Magic tends to punch through traditional defenses in general so I'm not really sure Diablo doesn't have the tools for good damage here.

Well, if you need to look at non-Phazon stuff, her proto form in MP2 (which is, for emphasis, MUCH less impressive in terms of plot hype and only has one really good attack, which this Damus replicates and then doubles up on) takes like...I wanna say 200+ missiles to down or something stupid like that (I'll get back to you on this one) if you try to brute force it. If you use the Phazon she spawns instead, she goes down in a few blasts. So like, I think that's a solid benchmark - 'really really really tanky to normal ordnance, actually vulnerable to Phazon and non-physical attacks'. Magic probably works much better on her than physical stuff just because I feel like she basically has '255' DEF to things that aren't her weakness and normal MDEF, but her sheer durability even when she's getting attacked with something she's weak to says it won't be easy to take her down.
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Lopen posted...

Not really, no. There's a regen stat on pretty much all high level diablo monsters that will outpace the damage of standard bows pretty handily.

Don't think we're talking about monsters but the characters. As in the playable ones.
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Playable ones would likely have the same thing going on unless they're geared like doofuses.
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FFDragon posted...

counterpoint: the lord of terror jobs to people far less powerful than samus

Excuse you: Nephalem is a 7/week
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So you're saying that they can be hurt by ordinary bows but may still be able to regenerate health despite the damage, depending on their equipment.
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Kinglicious posted...

So you're saying that they can be hurt by ordinary bows but may still be able to regenerate health despite the damage, depending on their equipment.

*Pokes head in*

Actually an end game character would take approximately .001% of their health from a 'regular bow' at most and regen 5% of their health a second naturally.
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There's always the good possibility that the fight takes place near/in phazon, I mean the terrain is covered with it. If they end up fighting in phazon, Vanille is toast and Diablo has four things to worry about.
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Chris isn't actually exaggerating there btw. "Regular bows" don't really register as damage on an endgame character.
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Lopen posted...

The problem with "Phazon only jobs to Phazon" as a method of destruction is Phazon isn't very well defined within the lore of a world that isn't Metroid. I would kinda be more convinced she's really that durable vs say, magic, if she took damage from your non phazon stuff but she could just take a lot of it.

Magic tends to punch through traditional defenses in general so I'm not really sure Diablo doesn't have the tools for good damage here.

I also have this issue.
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Look I know I have high Blizzard respect but you don't have to say 'actually.' I take data seriously ;.;
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Kinglicious posted...

So you're saying that they can be hurt by ordinary bows but may still be able to regenerate health despite the damage, depending on their equipment.

*Pokes head in*

Actually an end game character would take approximately .001% of their health from a 'regular bow' at most and regen 5% of their health a second naturally.

This is really RPG-y. You would have to start applying similar gear silliness to other characters, which no one ever does. Like I'm fine with saying that Diablo is tanky but I don't agree with the logic used to get to that point.
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You know that and I know that but I don't think he knows that
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Eddv posted...

Excuse you: Nephalem is a 7/week

I've heard rumors that the person who made the build had them as a 5 and somewhere in the clusterfuck of W41 someone punted it up to a 7 for some reason. Which makes so much sense.
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Damus
Damus self-heals, is in a terrain that empowers her and is fighting one squishy character with no resistance to Phazon and one character that can't fly while she can.

Alany posted...

Damus self-heals,

nope.jpg
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Well people are arguing that Damus takes hundreds of missiles to kill because of her boss battle, so it's just a counter point.
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KamikazePotato posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Kinglicious posted...

So you're saying that they can be hurt by ordinary bows but may still be able to regenerate health despite the damage, depending on their equipment.

*Pokes head in*

Actually an end game character would take approximately .001% of their health from a 'regular bow' at most and regen 5% of their health a second naturally.

This is really RPG-y. You would have to start applying similar gear silliness to other characters, which no one ever does. Like I'm fine with saying that Diablo is tanky but I don't agree with the logic used to get to that point.

Okay, how about the fact that these people take on cosmic forces of evil and a regular arrow is as likely to burst in flames by most of their aura than to actually wound them. Like Wang is the one who was talking about game mechanics terms, not me.
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Eddv posted...

Lopen posted...

The problem with "Phazon only jobs to Phazon" as a method of destruction is Phazon isn't very well defined within the lore of a world that isn't Metroid. I would kinda be more convinced she's really that durable vs say, magic, if she took damage from your non phazon stuff but she could just take a lot of it.

Magic tends to punch through traditional defenses in general so I'm not really sure Diablo doesn't have the tools for good damage here.

I also have this issue.

Kanz posted a pretty decent durability description like 8 posts up from yours
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FFDragon posted...

Eddv posted...

Excuse you: Nephalem is a 7/week

I've heard rumors that the person who made the build had them as a 5 and somewhere in the clusterfuck of W41 someone punted it up to a 7 for some reason. Which makes so much sense.

These are vicious rumors
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FFDragon posted...

Alany posted...

Damus self-heals,

nope.jpg

hey, I'm not saying that she is going to be self-healing, but she will be self-gathering phazon to use as a shield. That's like healing, kind of like how Warrior tap in hearthstone is effectively healing on your hero!
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shields are shields

they don't heal you

they just keep you from taking damage in the first place
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