Board 8 > Let me talk about the clothing design in Umineko *don't spoil me!!!*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Battler's Phoenix Wright impression, plus his "tables turned" music was quite good as well.
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Or should I say, "chessboard flipped"
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GANON1025 posted...

.. I don't know what to say, but I certainly did not expect Kanon to have an energy blade fight with a demon goat man. And also WIN

aww yeah.

welcome to Umineko. Episode 1 was just the really, really, really long prologue.
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But yeah, why all the quibbling over this key when this scene between Kanon and the demons is a lot better proof of magical powers? Why wasn't Battler called out to explain all that?
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iirc that will be explained in at least a little bit of detail fairly soon
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highlight this at your own risk

were the magic demon sword battles shown to you in red text?


it's not a spoiler but it'll fundamentally change how you view the entire story. personally I think the sooner you start thinking about things this way, the better. but if you want to wait until the author beats you over the head with it like 80 hours of reading from now, or until you figure it out for yourself along the way, that's fine.
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I liked viewing the story one way at first and a totally different way later.
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E-E-E-Eeeeeeeek

Umumumumumumumumumu
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And, spoiler or no, I probably won't be rolling over that.
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Rosa with that gun. No, I don't like it one bit.
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Actually that had me thinking, Rosa was in the chapel the night before the murders correct? She was with the siblings during that scene where everyone goes "wow, no doubt this is the real deal proof" iirc. Which is very suspicious.
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I felt very bad about this scene where Rosa got people to suspect Kanon as the killer, until Battler The King of Kings turned it around awesomely.
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Although, I'm not really understand this conundrum with the locked door here in Jessica's room. I guess I'm seeing this door like a normal one, where there is something on the doornob on the inside you can use to lock the door. In that case, the killer could set the door to be locked, then leave the room and shut the door on his way out. That way the door is locked, and both keys are inside the room.
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You can only lock the doors with the keys.
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But then couldn't the killer still lock the door from the inside with one of the keys, leave the key in the room and just shut the door on their way out?
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I believe the doors latch, so you can't shut the door while they're locked.
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think of the locks more as deadbolts
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Ah, OK, if you lock the door while it's open it won't close properly. I get it now.
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I'm stopping at a very interesting point. Kanon, barely alive, has appeared and asked the other servants to not alert Rosa. Definitely suspicious, especially this seemingly contradict the always-true red text.

I have to assume that this point that if Rokkenjima-Battler isn't in the scene, then Purgatory-Battler doesn't see whatever happens during it.
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I feel like Im getti close to the end of the episode.
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Rosa is just literally the worst
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Hey Kinzo's dream actually came true!!! Good for him
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I was going to say "that's it??" to the ending, but then more things happened after the credits. That was actually a bit disturbing at the end there.
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Episode 2's ending is pretty awesome

worldenddominator best Umineko song
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Yet even more unsettling things happened during the tea party. At least Battler has gotten back up again. I wonder where he found his clothes...? Even still, Battler can't explain all the locked rooms yet. At least not without implicating someone he knows, which he is against doing.

So there's going to be another game. I wonder if every episode is like this, each one I different set of killings during the same time period.
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This does make me question something, though. I thought the Battler in the Rokkenhima 'game' and the one in Purgatory were different people? But I guess they are the same? Or at least, the actions of one can effect the other?
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flip the chessboard over and think of the Rokkenjima stuff as a chess game between meta Battler and Beatrice
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That's sort of how I thought of it before, but Purgatory-Battler doesn't have actual control over his "pieces", as it were. Except for perhaps the version of himself in the game.
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Yeah, it's a rather lopsided game of chess where Battler only has one piece and Beatrice has all the other ones.
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So the actions/opinions of Battler in the game are reflective of the one in Purgatory? Like when Battler in the game gave up in episode 2, that was also Battler in Purgatory surrendering as well?
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Pretty much, yeah. I think the beginning of episode 3 will go into that a bit (although I might be mixing up what happens in which episode since it's been a long time).
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I also went through the ???. I feel like some of the events talked about here are referencing something I don't know of.
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It might be talking about Higurashi. It takes place in the same universe, although they're not really connected.
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I think I don't understand how denying the witch works. Surely if you accept her once, you can't just dial it back and be like 'actually, since you're mean, just kidding, I don't believe you exist', right? Surely?
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So this ??? made me think about something that's been on my mind for a while. As the reader, we are being shown scenes, like the ??? and the various demon goats / tea parties / light saber fights which seem to be obvious magic. This would make Battler's objection to it all pretty silly, sure maybe he doesn't see all this but we do. So his fight is somewhat meaningless in our eyes, since we 'know' magic is real. Who cares if Battler can explain some of these deaths through practical means, it doesn't matter since we know magic exists. I've reconciled this so far by believing Battler's fight to be more symbolic, he's trying to fight against Beatrice's power the only way he can.

However, I'd like to think there's somehow a non-magical explanation to everything. This includes Lambadelta and Berkenstel. So how? You could explain away some of the stuff the characters see in episode 2 as mass hallucinations but I find that to be very unsatisfying. No, I want all that stuff to have "happened" yet not be magical.

Then I think of it like this. To someone from ancient history, things like a gun would be seen as magic. Magic is just an explanation for something we can't comprehend. Maybe the same is true here. These "witches" perhaps are just people with a greater understanding of the world, and their manipulations look like magic to us only because they are so advanced. They could also be aliens for all I know as well, but I would like to think they are simply humans with some kind of advanced knowledge.
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I am enjoying your commentary!
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Thanks!
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That's a great way to think about it.
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GANON1025 posted...

So this ??? made me think about something that's been on my mind for a while. As the reader, we are being shown scenes, like the ??? and the various demon goats / tea parties / light saber fights which seem to be obvious magic. This would make Battler's objection to it all pretty silly, sure maybe he doesn't see all this but we do. So his fight is somewhat meaningless in our eyes, since we 'know' magic is real. Who cares if Battler can explain some of these deaths through practical means, it doesn't matter since we know magic exists. I've reconciled this so far by believing Battler's fight to be more symbolic, he's trying to fight against Beatrice's power the only way he can.

However, I'd like to think there's somehow a non-magical explanation to everything. This includes Lambadelta and Berkenstel. So how? You could explain away some of the stuff the characters see in episode 2 as mass hallucinations but I find that to be very unsatisfying. No, I want all that stuff to have "happened" yet not be magical.

Then I think of it like this. To someone from ancient history, things like a gun would be seen as magic. Magic is just an explanation for something we can't comprehend. Maybe the same is true here. These "witches" perhaps are just people with a greater understanding of the world, and their manipulations look like magic to us only because they are so advanced. They could also be aliens for all I know as well, but I would like to think they are simply humans with some kind of advanced knowledge.

Really love this post. Excited to see more of your thoughts
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I've also been toying with the idea that there is a third, or perhaps fourth layer to the narrative.

The first layer is the game, playing out in Rokkenjima.

The second is Battler and Beatrice in Purgatory, overseeing the game and debating over it.

The third, perhaps, is the interactions between the witches. I'm not sure if this would be a real layer on its own, or just an extension of the second.

The other layer is Beatrice/the witches vs. The Reader. After all, everyone has to believe in the witch's power, and that might include the reader. That is why we can see scenes like ??? or the murders in episode 2, perhaps Beatrice is playing a second game with those.
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Well at least the difficulty of episode 3 is equal!
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there is a fifth layer to the game even with the readers vs ryuukishi07 where we post about his works on the message boards and criticize him for being a hack...
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Oh! Yeah I forgot to mention Beatrice's speech to Shannon about men and love. It really sounds like something bad happened in Beatrice's past, possibly relating to Kinzo? I wonder if this VN will try to "pull a Fata Morgana" ( I know Umineko came out first so this turn of phrase makes no sense ) and delve into a tragic backstory for the witch at some point.
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Battler seems to be having a rough time of things, but at least he has a good attitude about it!
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This intro is pretty cool. Was it made for the PS3 version? The more I see of the story, the more intruiged I am by the scenes/characters I don't recognize in this intro.
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Which intro are you talking about, got a link?

If so I really like the PS3 intro if its what you are talking about
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I don't want to look up the link since I might wander into spoilers.

It's an intro that like starts and ends with a record playing, and shows different scenes with what looks like the PS3 sprites which I was I'm thinking it is from that version.
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This one (and yeah, Ganon, don't click on it because your related videos area might have spoilers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HA0BCfgypgQ" data-time="

This one was made for the PS3 release, I think. Or at least the only versions of it use PS3 sprites.
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That is definitely not the OP theme used in the original PC version
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Episode 3 hype

Might be my favorite
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