Board 8 > Whats the opinion on My Hero Macadamia?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I dunno if I agree with the audience treatment. I dont think they want us to feel like we should be surprised when Deku wins. We all know as a shounen protagonist he is gonna win most of his fights. I think what they want the audience to feel is the genuine desire to see him grow and win though. Like they want you to genuinely be rooting for him even if you already know hes gonna succeed most of the time and likely end the series as the greatest superhero of all time passing the torch to the next generation of aspiring heroes.

You can say most shounen series probably want to inspire that feeling, but I dont think all of them succeed. Deku might not be all that deep or anything, but I think hes easy enough for most people to relate to and he seems to inspire that feeling in people. He was a weak nerd given the greatest power in the world and wants nothing more than to be a great superhero like the one he grew up idolizing. Its a basic, but pure goal that works for people.

There's a reason almost everyone prefers All Might to Deku. I want to root for him but it's hard when it's all handed to him. It's like rooting for Steve Jobs.
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Ok going to delete that post because swordz basically covered what I was trying to say but unlike me he wasn't being obnoxious about it.
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Also I don't think everything is handed to Deku, for the record.

The fact that his power is really strong doesn't mean that he's going to get anywhere if he doesn't learn how to use it, train himself, etc.
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foolm0r0n posted...

Everyone already knows not to compare OPM to other shonens like that. But it definitely still uses the tropes. It's an homage and a tribute to the tropes, because it realizes they do actually work. There's twists and subversions, but it never says "this trope sucks and is dumb". All it shows is that you can evoke the tropes with very basic/minimal writing, and more importantly, that you don't need to trick the audience into believing it. The audience WANTS to go along for the ride, so it's not ruined by self awareness at all.

That's what I feel MHA (which again, not comparable) could benefit a lot from. Just a bit of self awareness and context as a modern shonen in the 2010s. For example, we know Deku will always win in the end too. He is literally equally as powerful as Saitama, since they both have plot force. But MHA treats the audience like they should be surprised that Deku wins, which feels so patronizing. It has too little journey/struggle and too much of the final destination. It should be 99% struggle, 1% destination, that's what OPM brilliantly demonstrates. Or just kill off your characters so there's actual tension like in DBZ/JoJo/that one episode 8.

That's what's so annoying in S1 MHA. It tries so hard to eliminate conflicts without allowing the characters to struggle in them, and thus show some development. Deku has a really interesting conflict at the beginning, completely erased when he gains the strongest power in the world. Then he has a problem with breaking his body, oh wait there's a magic insta heal power so who cares. Terrorists take over the school and a bunch of characters are put in do-or-die scenarios, 30 seconds later reinforcements shoot everyone in the head and it's like nothing ever happened.

You really acting like Deku can magically heal himself?

That's like the biggest conflict in the show so far. He can't.

foolm0r0n posted...

There's a reason almost everyone prefers All Might to Deku. I want to root for him but it's hard when it's all handed to him. It's like rooting for Steve Jobs.

All Might literally has the same backstory as Deku lmao.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

Everyone already knows not to compare OPM to other shonens like that. But it definitely still uses the tropes. It's an homage and a tribute to the tropes, because it realizes they do actually work. There's twists and subversions, but it never says "this trope sucks and is dumb". All it shows is that you can evoke the tropes with very basic/minimal writing, and more importantly, that you don't need to trick the audience into believing it. The audience WANTS to go along for the ride, so it's not ruined by self awareness at all.

That's what I feel MHA (which again, not comparable) could benefit a lot from. Just a bit of self awareness and context as a modern shonen in the 2010s. For example, we know Deku will always win in the end too. He is literally equally as powerful as Saitama, since they both have plot force. But MHA treats the audience like they should be surprised that Deku wins, which feels so patronizing. It has too little journey/struggle and too much of the final destination. It should be 99% struggle, 1% destination, that's what OPM brilliantly demonstrates. Or just kill off your characters so there's actual tension like in DBZ/JoJo/that one episode 8.

That's what's so annoying in S1 MHA. It tries so hard to eliminate conflicts without allowing the characters to struggle in them, and thus show some development. Deku has a really interesting conflict at the beginning, completely erased when he gains the strongest power in the world. Then he has a problem with breaking his body, oh wait there's a magic insta heal power so who cares. Terrorists take over the school and a bunch of characters are put in do-or-die scenarios, 30 seconds later reinforcements shoot everyone in the head and it's like nothing ever happened.

You really acting like Deku can magically heal himself?

That's like the biggest conflict in the show so far. He can't.

This isn't really apparent in season 1, to be fair.
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Its not hard to see why people prefer All Might though. He has an entirely different charm to his character and thats ignoring his design and voice people like. People like the shounen mentor types and they love them even more if they constantly push themselves beyond their limits to help others.

all might is awesome because PLUS ULTRA
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ZeldaTPLink posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

There's a reason almost everyone prefers All Might to Deku. I want to root for him but it's hard when it's all handed to him. It's like rooting for Steve Jobs.

All Might literally has the same backstory as Deku lmao.

Actually, he has the same backstory as Deku, except it was significantly more all handed to him because he took to the quirk instantly, as opposed to Deku who shreds himself whenever he uses it.
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There were 7 owners of that power and none of them did anything big with it, partly because the power wasn't as big, but partly because they just weren't as effective as super-heroes.

Then All Might comes along and decides he wants to create a symbol of peace that will save super-hero society. He is given that power because of that. He didn't have a super-power before. His philosophy impressed the previous owner who had never had that idea herself.

He becomes the gretest hero who ever lived and saves the world, but because of his attitude, not just his power. He makes it work. Nobody else could have been All Might with the same power, except All Might. Nobody else had the same attitude. He beat a villain who ruled the world for centuries despite everyone else having powers, because he is that good of a hero.

Now Deku was given the same power, because All Might thinks he has potential. But it's up to Deku to find a way to do something great with it. And the series is about Deku learning his limits, how to deal with situations where he can't just save everyone, etc. Power is the smallest problem, it's about learning to be a super-hero. All arcs so far had some conflict related to that.

ZeldaTPLink posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

There's a reason almost everyone prefers All Might to Deku. I want to root for him but it's hard when it's all handed to him. It's like rooting for Steve Jobs.

All Might literally has the same backstory as Deku lmao.

Yes and no unless it changes past the point I saw. Gran Torino said that All Might was instantly compatible with it and didn't experience the same issues Deku did.

Also All Mights character arc is at a completely different stage to Dekus even if they share an identical story. And All Might's character and story is just better

ShatteredElysium posted...

ZeldaTPLink posted...

foolm0r0n posted...

There's a reason almost everyone prefers All Might to Deku. I want to root for him but it's hard when it's all handed to him. It's like rooting for Steve Jobs.

All Might literally has the same backstory as Deku lmao.

Yes and no unless it changes past the point I saw. Gran Torino said that All Might was instantly compatible with it and didn't experience the same issues Deku did.

Also All Mights character arc is at a completely different stage to Dekus even if they share an identical story. And All Might's character and story is just better

I mean sure I also prefer All Might but the point is, saying one had everything handed to him and the other hadn't is just wrong. They both got their power for free, but what counts is what they do with it.

Also, my opinion of My Hero Macadamia is that there's not enough nuts.
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ZeldaTPLink posted...

All Might literally has the same backstory as Deku lmao.

Who cares. I'm talking about the show. All Might clearly struggles way more.

But you're right, I still don't like All Might that much for the same reasons. Even though he says he's deteriorating a lot, he still gets the job done anytime he's on screen. We don't really see any evidence of his weakness. Until the finale where he did lose his power, and had to be bailed out by deku ex machina. But that's another example of removing conflicts without letting the character actually work it out and grow. It made All Might's character weaker, because it proved he hasn't actually learned much from his deteriorating powers. He still just goes all out and can't control himself either.
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My one huge problem with MHA is they didn't kill off All Might at the absolute perfect moment to do so. Like, I feel if MHA is ever going to be a shonen all-time great then the story demands All Might die at some point. (For both the consequences it would have on Deku as a character and the entire world of heroes) But now since he didn't die in the All For One fight I really don't know how they're going to do it without it feeling really weak.

I actually stopped reading at that point (not because I was upset or anything, I was still loving it - I just got distracted by life stuff) so I don't know where the story's gone since then. Between this thread and now the anime finally catching up to where I was in the story, I might start up again!
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foolm0r0n posted...

ZeldaTPLink posted...

All Might literally has the same backstory as Deku lmao.

Who cares. I'm talking about the show. All Might clearly struggles way more.

But you're right, I still don't like All Might that much for the same reasons. Even though he says he's deteriorating a lot, he still gets the job done anytime he's on screen. We don't really see any evidence of his weakness. Until the finale where he did lose his power, and had to be bailed out by deku ex machina. But that's another example of removing conflicts without letting the character actually work it out and grow. It made All Might's character weaker, because it proved he hasn't actually learned much from his deteriorating powers. He still just goes all out and can't control himself either.

Dude he was facing his arch-enemy, the one he and 7 generations of heroes waited to fight, and you wanted him to lose?

That isn't character development time, that's like the final chapter of the "prequel series". All the character development already happened before.

So much that All Might doesn't exist anymore once it's done.

Xiahou Shake posted...

My one huge problem with MHA is they didn't kill off All Might at the absolute perfect moment to do so. Like, I feel if MHA is ever going to be a shonen all-time great then the story demands All Might die at some point. (For both the consequences it would have on Deku as a character and the entire world of heroes) But now since he didn't die in the All For One fight I really don't know how they're going to do it without it feeling really weak.

I actually stopped reading at that point (not because I was upset or anything, I was still loving it - I just got distracted by life stuff) so I don't know where the story's gone since then. Between this thread and now the anime finally catching up to where I was in the story, I might start up again!

I actually liked that they ignored the opportunity to do the Obi Wan/Dumbledore cliche at the most obvious time possible.

It can actually develop the guy differently, as someone who is completely powerless but has to be a teacher.

Though tbh I might be happier if they swapped Nighteye for All Might surviving though.

foolm0r0n posted...

All Might's character weaker, because it proved he hasn't actually learned much from his deteriorating powers. He still just goes all out and can't control himself either.

the entire point of finding a successor is because he knows his powers are deteriorating. it's also part of why he goes to UA and becomes a teacher. he knows he's on borrowed time but he has to maintain himself as the symbol of peace because nobody else can be that and it's one of the pillars holding up society - he can't not be it. that's exactly the issue he faces as he's learning how to control himself: you see him learning how to stop being All Might, that he has to stop being a hero all the time, because he has to 1) train new ones, and 2) is on a time limit for how long he can actually be All Might. he's learning how to control himself so that he can be All Might when it really matters on a clock that's rapidly ticking.

all you said here is that you don't know what you're talking about. he isn't going all out, he is controlling himself, and the plot revolves around how he deals with his deteriorating powers, which helps move the plot forward because that's also partially the motivation of the villains he/UA faces: they know he's not invincible anymore.
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It feels like you are following a template for character development and anything that deviates from that is "bad".

Xiahou Shake posted...

I actually stopped reading at that point (not because I was upset or anything, I was still loving it - I just got distracted by life stuff) so I don't know where the story's gone since then. Between this thread and now the anime finally catching up to where I was in the story, I might start up again!

just checked.
we're on 109/193
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ZeldaTPLink posted...

Dude he was facing his arch-enemy, the one he and 7 generations of heroes waited to fight, and you wanted him to lose?

He did lose though (kinda). That's why he's at least better than Deku.

But if that is the end of All Might, then yeah that's pretty significant. I didn't catch that at the end of the S1, I thought he said he could still do it for an hour.

Wanglicious posted...

the plot revolves around how he deals with his deteriorating powers

My whole point is that the plot presents these issues and highlights them, but doesn't answer them at all (in S1).

But if S2 really has a depleted All Might, and Deku can't just get healed instantly anymore, then that is a significant change that has the potential for good stuff. Apparently it still takes 14 episodes to get there though. Whatever.
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Recovery girl, episode 6: You can't keep doing this, you'll literally die.
Midoriya, episode 6: She's right, I have to learn to stop relying on others.

foolmo: HE CAN JUST GET HEALED INSTANTLY
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foolm0r0n posted...

But if that is the end of All Might, then yeah that's pretty significant. I didn't catch that at the end of the S1, I thought he said he could still do it for an hour.

No he was talking about something later. Seems he was confused about what part you were talking about.
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People being healed instantly is admittedly a pretty big issue in shonen. Even One Piece has had the "this move will shorten my life span" and completely handwaved that significance within a year.

MHA is doing very well with making Deku's decisions feel like they matter, at least up to the point I've read.
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CeraSeptem posted...

Recovery girl, episode 6: You can't keep doing this, you'll literally die.
Midoriya, episode 6: She's right, I have to learn to stop relying on others.

Recovery girl, end of S1: Hey look you're healed instantly

foolmo: HE CAN JUST GET HEALED INSTANTLY

fixed

LapisLazuli posted...

spoils

LMAO the story is so generic he didn't know which finale I was talking about

Xiahou Shake posted...

People being healed instantly is admittedly a pretty big issue in shonen

I think it's fine

Unless your entire conflict relies on you not being able to heal
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My favorite was Luffy and Brook getting their broken teeth fixed by drinking milk in the whole cake island arc
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Deku isn't healed instantly.

Some of the damage he takes is permanent.

The show makes a big point of that. It's like the whole plot of S2 and S3.

Xiahou Shake posted...

People being healed instantly is admittedly a pretty big issue in shonen. Even One Piece has had the "this move will shorten my life span" and completely handwaved that significance within a year.

Oh, definitely. I was initially annoyed by Recovery Girl's existence myself. She removes a lot of the stakes if we're expecting Deku to learn anything.

But it takes a special breed of ignorance to see thirteen episodes of a lengthy show and then be upset that every plot point hasn't been addressed yet, especially when those same desirable plot points are being very clearly set up.
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CeraSeptem posted...

Xiahou Shake posted...

People being healed instantly is admittedly a pretty big issue in shonen. Even One Piece has had the "this move will shorten my life span" and completely handwaved that significance within a year.

Oh, definitely. I was initially annoyed by Recovery Girl's existence myself. She removes a lot of the stakes if we're expecting Deku to learn anything.

But it takes a special breed of ignorance to see thirteen episodes of a lengthy show and then be upset that every plot point hasn't been addressed yet, especially when those same desirable plot points are being very clearly set up.

Like I said, he's following a template, and being annoyed that things aren't happening in the exact order he thinks they should.

So for example, All Might should follow a classic, standardized, character arc, even though he's not a standard character.

I used to see this a lot on the Homestuck fandom. People had quotas of character development they believed all the 20-30 characters should get, and got annoyed when they didn't at the end.

one legit bizarre thing about my hero academia is how we're told quirks are either mutations, or they are inherited from the parents... but then often times we'll see that side joke characters have two parents with the same quirk. tsu has two frog-like parents, although one is more froggy than the other. hagakure has two invisible parents though which is very notable. it makes it seem like their parents must have been related and they are inbred? but the author never addresses this directly so it's hard to say if he just didn't think it through to the logical conclusion or if he did it intentionally but didn't want to draw attention to it.
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Oh I could definitely see inbreeding being a thing in that world, to keep the quirk line "pure"
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Or there is a community of frog people who live in the same city.

Tokoyami posted...

Oh I could definitely see inbreeding being a thing in that world, to keep the quirk line "pure"

yeah this was kinda my take on it when I think about it for more than a few minutes. I know in some classical japanese cultures they have portrayed this idea of having a main and a branch family who sort of intermarry. similar to european nobility the idea I guess is to consolidate the power, wealth, and influence within the same family.

so if you have these distantly related frog quirk family members I guess it makes sense that they would marry within their own clan to prevent anyone else from getting the frog quirk, for example.
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I mean the story implies there was a lot of prejudice due to quirks in the past. And they showed up centuries ago. It's expected for people with similar quirks to band together imo.

fair enough.

I still think it's bizarre to have this entire concept going on in the background and the author never explicitly brings it up in any way. we have stuff like bakugo and todoroki's parents mixing quirks to create more powerful quirks, so it does seem like he has put thought into the idea of how quirks are passed down from one generation to the other.

but then again this doesn't mean he has put too much thought into the fact that two parents with the same quirk must have both gotten it somehow, especially when drawing very brief scenes for side characters that were only a few panels long. really makes it feel more like an oversight than anything intentional and it'll be hard for me to give credit to the author if he never addresses it in the story or even in his side materials which tend to contain a lot of notes and detailed info.
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Bakugo? I don't remember his parents doing that.

they didn't do it intentionally, I'm just giving credit to horikoshi for acknowledging how it works
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Linked with the above, do they ever cover what would happen if a One for All user had kids?

ZeldaTPLink posted...

I used to see this a lot on the Homestuck fandom. People had quotas of character development they believed all the 20-30 characters should get, and got annoyed when they didn't at the end.

At the end is at least a time to know you've been disappointed, even if your standards were too high. A very minute amount of the way through something you know is going to last a while and isn't over is just dumb.

If quirks appeared so long ago, I wager there was a lot of clanning up and stuff happening early on, but it's also possible that and Tsu's or Hagakure's parents are distantly related but not really inbred because it's been generations since. Especially if some quirks are more dominant or it's possible to pick one up from down your family line. We'd have to know more to really know more.
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So many questions when it comes to two completely invisible people reproducing. Unless the visibility is voluntary, it hasn't shown Hagakure as anything but invisible from what I've seen so far

CeraSeptem posted...

But it takes a special breed of ignorance to see thirteen episodes of a lengthy show and then be upset that every plot point hasn't been addressed yet, especially when those same desirable plot points are being very clearly set up.

You really think it's ignorant to think when people rave about MHA they are including the first season and aren't implicitly saying "it's great.... after 30 episodes"?

I'm not an anime fanboy so if this is really how people talk about anime then I'll keep it in mind. It definitely makes sense though given how people talk about JoJo part 3/4. It's just weird that I could rewatch OPM S1 twice, or half of all of ATLA, before this anime gets good, and it's unreasonable to have an issue with that.

This topic is about giving advice to a new watcher though, so should it be to watch episode 1, then the finale of S1, then skip to the sports festival? I might try that and see how it goes.
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Its all good my friend
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ZeldaTPLink posted...

I used to see this a lot on the Homestuck fandom. People had quotas of character development they believed all the 20-30 characters should get, and got annoyed when they didn't at the end.

I mean you're right. My quota was 1 character getting 1 bit of character development, and it didn't happen, so I was disappointed. I can see how unfair that is now.
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The advice is watch everything, keep watching if you like the characters and the setting, drop it if you don't, and don't expect every plot point to be solved within the first 5 hours.

You probably didn't like the characters and the setting, that's why you dropped it. The rest is just trying to rationalize it.

Like sometimes a story is good just because it's fun to watch its characters doing things.

foolm0r0n posted...

ZeldaTPLink posted...

I used to see this a lot on the Homestuck fandom. People had quotas of character development they believed all the 20-30 characters should get, and got annoyed when they didn't at the end.

I mean you're right. My quota was 1 character getting 1 bit of character development, and it didn't happen, so I was disappointed. I can see how unfair that is now.

I mean when you say stuff like this and then praise the character development of OPM season 1, do you really have to wonder why people respond to you how they do
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You are the one rationalizing everything

"not even 1 thing happened" = "oh you're crying cuz not EVERYTHING happened"
"I like the 30+ characters and I want to see them developed instead of the same core 4 over and over" = "oh you just don't like the characters"

Like how is this so difficult?

I definitely do get it now though, don't worry. I'll give y'all my long awaited review of the sports festival soon.
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HashtagSEP posted...

I mean when you say stuff like this and then praise the character development of OPM season 1, do you really have to wonder why people respond to you how they do

This doesn't follow at all
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foolm0r0n posted...

HashtagSEP posted...

I mean when you say stuff like this and then praise the character development of OPM season 1, do you really have to wonder why people respond to you how they do

This doesn't follow at all

You are saying not a single character was developed

Yet were like "And OPM introduced all of these interesting characters in season 1"

But it didn't develop a single one of them

So there appears to be an inherent bias
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