Board 8 > Survivor/BB/TAR Summer Topic 3 - David and FOUTTE vs. a Goliath Level 6

(+) Yeah! (+)

I completely forgot that BB was gonna be on tonight.
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Just watched last night's episode.

Congrats Angela for being in my green for an episode the first time ever.
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"Scottie reveals secret information that could tank someone else's game."

*The first scene is a dumb segment about JC not speaking English.*
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"The only person the jury hates more than me is Angela...so I need to vote her out!"
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Brett: If I evict Angela, the jury might respect me.

Also Brett: I'm loyal to Angela. I'm gonna let JC evict Angela and get the blood on his hands.
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No mention of Sam, but yeah everyone can win.
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So that entire week was about Haleigh being paranoid, no Scottie screentime, Scottie comes back into the house and leaves the same week as a unanimous vote...that was the most worthless week ever.
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Underleveled posted...

Congrats Angela for being in my green for an episode the first time ever.

it's not easy being green if you're Angela



or is it?
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That scottie interview really pissed me off. He is one of those guys who says they were right when they were really wrong and then refusing to give the other side credit. Not to mention he basically admitted to fueling the bitter jury. That's really frustrating.
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Lol the fly on the camera.

That's amazing.
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Welp, bye Haleigh.

Let another boring week ensue.
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Let's go!
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Level 6 wins yet another HOH. I presume Haleigh is the nom with Sam being the pawn. And after that, Level 6 turns on each other. Can't let JC go to jury first and claim that he was the mastermind, now can they? JC still has no idea that there's a mastermind still above him and that he's just the scapegoat.

Can we just fast-forward to next Thursday, please? It's a DE - why couldn't that have been THIS week?
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We could see JC as the pawn which could make some excitement but we ate headed for an exciting double evict
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I'm listening to Josh Wiglers First One Out and I think you guys are going to like the new advantage.

First off, there is no day one advantage so no legacy advantage or day one super idol.

Now for the real twist, it is an idol nullifier. In the event that you know someone is going to play your idol you'll put the idol nullifier in the voting urn when you vote. So it is completely anonymous. And what will happen is Jeff will do his normal spiel and then when the votes the nullifier comes out the votes that were against that person will count again. What makes me optimistic is this feels like a reaction to the too many idols talk. They are likely to keep reintroducing an idol every time one is used but now this makes it that the idols arent all powerful. Probst said there is likely to just be one nullifier in the season but if it gets used super early they may rehide tye nullifier.

EDIT: But the other downside is you have to pick the person you nullify.
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That downside is really only a downside in split votes.

I'm cautiously optimistic about this though.
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Also rehiding played idols isn't THAT bad, it's the rehiding of idols when there are already multiple idols still in play.
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Idk why we need idol nullifiers when we could just not give Ben twenty idols instead. I see this new twist flopping unless a really savvy player gets it, in which case we still lose since we get an unnecessary amount of confessionals hyping it and sucking up airtime. Although apparently you just put it in the urn rather than targeting someone specific? Not sure. In that event I am especially not a fan since it barely requires any thoughtful strategy to play it when a minority is down to its last one or two members.

Survivor is losing me quickly with the shitty format changes. Cast looks like a trainwreck so I look forward to that, but the new FTC sucks and the fire-making at F4 is horrid. The new twists have mostly flopped. Meh.
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Well, in AUS2017, Ziggy certainly made a bad move in using her idol nullifier. Since she had to do so in the open, she exposed herself. All in the name of... getting rid of Anneliese?

I like this better since it's done in private, but it would honestly be better to not have one and instead only have 3-4 total idols in an entire season (one per tribe, including merge tribe after one is played), with no more than 3 in play at any given time.

Also if the tribe names are really just "David" and "Goliath" then that means there's probably not going to be any swap. Fuck yes! Hopefully that's the actual case and they're returning to the Heroes vs. Villains idea. It's about time there was a season with no swap. Those need to happen more regularly.
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Omniscientless posted...

the new FTC sucks and the fire-making at F4 is horrid

I agree on the fire-making. That is garbage and it has no reason to continue existing. It is bad for the integrity of the game, which is about surviving votes above all else. It leads to more interesting F3s, but... it makes Ben and Wendell look like weaker winners. They needed to be flashy to win there. It makes fire-making too relevant toward the outcome when it shouldn't be. That's among the worst twists in Survivor history. Fire-making should always happen in 2-2 tie, but ONLY then.

I like the new FTC format for the integrity of the game - it brings gameplay into the open. However, it does so at the expense of good TV. It robs us of the "epic closer" at an FTC - though, let's be real, at times those felt started to feel forced. That's why the change was necessary: It had gotten stale. I hope they continue this FTC format for three more seasons or so, then revert back to the original. It's becoming more apparent that they just needed a break from the grandstanding so it could be brought back to earth when they return there in the future. The new format is getting stale faster than the grandstanding did. Hence why this should just be a "break."
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KujikawaRising posted...

I like the new FTC format for the integrity of the game - it brings gameplay into the open. However, it does so at the expense of good TV. It robs us of the "epic closer" at an FTC - though, let's be real, at times those felt started to feel forced. That's why the change was necessary: It had gotten stale.

It also allows the editors to edit jurors out of the FTC completely. Half of the jurors in GI didn't get to speak at FTC as far as we saw. That's beyond unacceptable. If you make it that far, you should get the chance to speak your peace about the game and have it be heard.

Speaking of, remember when Rites of Passage was a thing?
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Underleveled posted...

Speaking of, remember when Rites of Passage was a thing?

I alwasy hated Rites of Passage. Kind of a waste of twenty minutes lol.

I think we are 1-1 in fire making. I give it a win in GI because it gave us Wendell vs Dom. However, I will be concerned if the winner of the season is the winner of the fire making for a third straight season.
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Underleveled posted...

It also allows the editors to edit jurors out of the FTC completely. Half of the jurors in GI didn't get to speak at FTC as far as we saw. That's beyond unacceptable. If you make it that far, you should get the chance to speak your peace about the game and have it be heard.

Yeah, I agree. GI's edited FTC was legitimately terrible except for the punchline. Nobody's going to remember anything before Probst going "Fuck it, I'm gonna read the votes."

Speaking of, remember when Rites of Passage was a thing?

Yeah, but frankly it's unneeded now that there are Ponderosa and Day-After videos available for free online (alongside all the paid stuff). If you care about that stuff, go and watch it. I watch every Ponderosa video but only do the Day-After videos for my favorites.

That said, the finales seem way too abbreviated these days. I don't like this six-person finale crap.

Like Siurskit, Survivor is starting to lose me. And I have watched it since the very first day. Probst is no longer doing it for the fans but rather for the players - and that's why the show's viewers are dropping. You can't cast fans of a show if you don't have any that are willing and able to go out there, now can you? I expect Survivor might end at season 40 if this continues.

I do have some hopes for David vs. Goliath but I'm expecting mediocrity. Which is at least better than Ghost, but it can't get much worse than that.
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Omniscientless posted...

Although apparently you just put it in the urn rather than targeting someone specific? Not sure. In that event I am especially not a fan since it barely requires any thoughtful strategy to play it when a minority is down to its last one or two members.

He said in FOO that it is both. You put it in the urn to remain anonymous and you some how pick the person that you are nullifying and if the person you are playing the nullifier on doesn't play an idol nothing comes out and you lose the advantage. (which based on what Jeff said I would think it gets rehidden unless it is very late in the game)
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__LeiaRolando__ posted...

Like Siurskit, Survivor is starting to lose me. And I have watched it since the very first day. Probst is no longer doing it for the fans but rather for the players - and that's why the show's viewers are dropping. You can't cast fans of a show if you don't have any that are willing and able to go out there, now can you? I expect Survivor might end at season 40 if this continues.

Also, ratings aren't dropping. If anything they are consistent and if they are dropping I would take that more towards the fact that less people have cable. Everyone's ratings are dropping.
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Survivor won't end at 40 unless something really drastic happens. For the amount of viewers it still brings on, it's still incredibly inexpensive to produce. I'm saying minimum there's another 5 years left in the tank (including this year).
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It is still a consistent top 10 in the main demographic. CBS isn't going to be passing on that unless Probst calls it quits. If Probst hangs it is the only time I think the show would be in real danger. It is worth noting that in his FOO interview that Jeff says he doesn't think they've hit too many advantages yet. He thinks the problem is that they go off at the same time often. Also, this may concern people, he loved the GI cast and thinks this cast is even better than them.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

I think we are 1-1 in fire making. I give it a win in GI because it gave us Wendell vs Dom. However, I will be concerned if the winner of the season is the winner of the fire making for a third straight season.

I'm not even sure it's a win there since Laurel most likely forces the tie. She was really close with Wendell and thought her only chance was Dom and Wendell splitting the votes. That would've been more interesting than what we got.
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KujikawaRising posted...

Also if the tribe names are really just "David" and "Goliath" then that means there's probably not going to be any swap. f*** yes! Hopefully that's the actual case and they're returning to the Heroes vs. Villains idea. It's about time there was a season with no swap. Those need to happen more regularly.

No way dude. They done swaps in BvW, HvHvH, MvGx. You're kidding yourself if you think they won't do something that has been in Survivor SINCE SEASON 3. If we're lucky though we'll only get the one swap ala all three of those season I mentioned.

Mewtwo59 posted...

I'm not even sure it's a win there since Laurel most likely forces the tie. She was really close with Wendell and thought her only chance was Dom and Wendell splitting the votes. That would've been more interesting than what we got.

Well then at worst the fire making scenario is void.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

No way dude. They done swaps in BvW, HvHvH, MvGx. You're kidding yourself if you think they won't do something that has been in Survivor SINCE SEASON 3. If we're lucky though we'll only get the one swap ala all three of those season I mentioned.

There have been many seasons without a swap since Africa, though. Just not recently.

eaedwards6400 posted...

Also, ratings aren't dropping.

Ghost Island lost a million viewers between its start and end.
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__LeiaRolando__ posted...

Ghost Island lost a million viewers between its start and end.

Not quite a million 8.19 to 7.34 and it was 7.54 the week before. It was a late finale this year most of the other shows were already done for the year and the furthest down it was in overall rankings was 14th. Survivor is doing just fine.
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Oh and in key demo it barely dropped from 1.7 to 1.4
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eaedwards6400 posted...

Oh and in key demo it barely dropped from 1.7 to 1.4

82.35% retention isn't great. Almost 1 in 5 people watching dropped it. That's not a good sign for the future of the show, especially since said people did not return for the finale.
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No 82 is still pretty decent and when you include everything that darkx said about how cheap it is to make Survivor Survivor is going to be fine. Idk why you're wishing for its death.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

No 82 is still pretty decent and when you include everything that darkx said about how cheap it is to make Survivor Survivor is going to be fine. Idk why you're wishing for its death.

Please do not put words in my mouth. Not once did I wish for its death. Expecting it does not equate to wishing for it.

S38 is reportedly so bad that it might kill the show.
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eaedwards6400 posted...

KujikawaRising posted...

Also if the tribe names are really just "David" and "Goliath" then that means there's probably not going to be any swap. f*** yes! Hopefully that's the actual case and they're returning to the Heroes vs. Villains idea. It's about time there was a season with no swap. Those need to happen more regularly.

No way dude. They done swaps in BvW, HvHvH, MvGx. You're kidding yourself if you think they won't do something that has been in Survivor SINCE SEASON 3. If we're lucky though we'll only get the one swap ala all three of those season I mentioned.

If those are the actual tribe names then there probably wont br a swap. The tribes in all the seasons you mentioned had actual tribe names other than the theme names. HvV didn't have a swap because swapping with those names wouldn't make sense.
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AUS 2018 had a swap, so...
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KujikawaRising posted...

I like the new FTC format for the integrity of the game - it brings gameplay into the open

Wut. Like the jurors couldn't just ask about their gameplay before? The jurors ask for what they care about, that's the whole point. It's their vote and there's no objective criteria to decide the winner. It does the opposite and it's blatantly production trying to steer the results for their preferred style of gameplay. Sandra won two of the most celebrated Survivor seasons in history by playing quiet games, production's obsession with shoehorning their idea of good/exciting gameplay at the time of rewarding a winner is balls-deep dumb when it's provable it doesn't make for better television.

And as mentioned, this new format completely negates the possibility for jurors to take the floor and get personal, which historically has led to some of the best moments reality television has ever offered. Add the frustrating edit with some imbecile like Michael getting all the airtime on the GI FTC just because he was vomiting what production likes to hear while half the jury (most of the women, obviously) literally didn't get a line in and it's just a mess. No. Give me back the old FTC format.
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__LeiaRolando__ posted...

eaedwards6400 posted...

No 82 is still pretty decent and when you include everything that darkx said about how cheap it is to make Survivor Survivor is going to be fine. Idk why you're wishing for its death.

Please do not put words in my mouth. Not once did I wish for its death. Expecting it does not equate to wishing for it.

S38 is reportedly so bad that it might kill the show.

God you're so damn sensitive. That was not the intention, you expectations are suggestive of not wanting it around.. If 21-24 when Jeff wanted to quit didn't kill the show I really don't know if it will end any other way than calling it on their own. Just my opinion.
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FTC format and edit are two different things. The edit is more of a problem than the new format. GI's was awful for the reason you state: The overwhelmingly generic Michael got excessive airtime and most of the women got completely ignored (actually, every woman but Kellyn).

I maintain my position that a temporary change is nice to quiet down the grandstanding a bit. After Brenda told Dawn to take out her teeth, it felt like they were forcing such moments every single season. And this is on the record - Spencer Bledsoe claimed that he had a different idea for a speech and, during that session with production, he said something like "What am I supposed to say? That Tony was a mastermind and Woo played like a dog?" and they said yes, say that. This is evidence that production wanted to force an "epic closer speech" every season and it stopped feeling natural or interesting. It felt scripted because it was. That was why the change was necessary.
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__LeiaRolando__ posted...

I maintain my position that a temporary change is nice to quiet down the grandstanding a bit. After Brenda told Dawn to take out her teeth, it felt like they were forcing such moments every single season. And this is on the record - Spencer Bledsoe claimed that he had a different idea for a speech and, during that session with production, he said something like "What am I supposed to say? That Tony was a mastermind and Woo played like a dog?" and they said yes, say that. This is evidence that production wanted to force an "epic closer speech" every season and it stopped feeling natural or interesting. It felt scripted because it was. That was why the change was necessary.

If you don't mind I would like to see/hear that interview
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I don't know why they had to force Spencer's speech when they had Trish's speech. That was so much better because it wasn't forced.
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I think the new format also gets us through FTC faster but I don't know if that is fact. It just feels like it goes faster.
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If the format lends itself to a crap edit, then yes, the format sucks for the viewers. Like I care what the actual 5 hours of footage looked like when they were left in the cutting room floor.

So Spencer was inspired by production to go extra hard on Woo. Nobody asked him to be such a bitch about it, and he had the option to, you know, refuse or tone it down, but he chose to say what he said. You complain about production scripting that for Spencer when production is basically scripting the whole FTC for everyone involved now. Know what wasn't scripted? Trish's speech, and that was the same season. Spencer was going to give an awful speech about The Game no matter what, that's literally his personality and what he lived for before he got destroyed in Second Chances. He never shuts up about the game and how to play it.

Sounds to me like Spencer is salty there was backlash against his awful speech so he just created this narrative where production forced him to make it in the first place. Like how do you think that conversation went? Production can't force Spencer to advocate for a player like he did, that'd count as direct manipulation. That was all him, his words, his choice. Production was never going to tell him NOT to try to stir the pot with some gameplay-related drama, get real. But it was Spencer who brought it up first, because a) Spencer wanted to suck Tony's dick since he bested him repeatedly, and b) Spencer was mad at Woo. Even the way you phrase it makes it clear Spencer felt that way from the start, production being happy he is willing to be a massive advocate for The Game isn't production scripting his words.
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__LeiaRolando__ posted...

S38 is reportedly so bad that it might kill the show.

Source please.
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Are there spoilers for S38 or are you just saying that based on the leaked twist?
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Honestly, I think casuals will love that twist.
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What did they think of Redemption Island? Since this is the same thing except there's only one challenge to return.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

What did they think of Redemption Island? Since this is the same thing except there's only one challenge to return.

If I recall correctly, my moms favorite story of that season was the Matt Story. And my parents are my casual base
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