Current Events > Will transgenders be allowed in sports?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like Olympics? Or will women get upset if someone born a man then turned female beats them and vice versa?
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It shouldn't be allowed
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They should have their own division.
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People born women should have the option competing in either men or women's

People born men should be excluded from women's
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They should be allowed compete in sports, just not women's sports.

They have clear biological advantages over women.
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SuperExcitebike posted...

It shouldn't be allowed

"Equality!! - except for reasons I don't like!"

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

They should be allowed compete in sports, just not women's sports.

They have clear biological advantages over women.

It should be decided on a per sport basis. For a lot of sports like wrestling, soccer or track and field, it does matter. For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill, everyone should just be in the same league.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

They should be allowed compete in sports, just not women's sports.

They have clear biological advantages over women.

It should be decided on a per sport basis. For a lot of sports like wrestling, soccer or track and field, it does matter. For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill, everyone should just be in the same league.

Golf requires some physical fitness and a lot of skills. Strength plays a huge factor when it comes to driving the ball.

Men's longest drive: 516 yards
Men's average drive distance: 230 to 270 yards

Women's longest drive: 349 yards
Women's average drive distance: 195-205 yards
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DifferentialEquation posted...

For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill,

LOL

There's a reason male golfers in the PGA have to tee-off from a greater distance. And if golf doesn't require any skill, go show us by beating Tiger Woods.

DirkDiggles posted...

They should have their own division.

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It doesn't harm anyone to let trans people compete in sports so why exclude them for no reason?
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DifferentialEquation posted...

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

They should be allowed compete in sports, just not women's sports.

They have clear biological advantages over women.

It should be decided on a per sport basis. For a lot of sports like wrestling, soccer or track and field, it does matter. For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill, everyone should just be in the same league.

This guy doesn't golf
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Depends on when they transitioned I guess.

He underestimates golf and I've never even played in my life.
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

GreatEvilEmpire posted...

They should be allowed compete in sports, just not women's sports.

They have clear biological advantages over women.

It should be decided on a per sport basis. For a lot of sports like wrestling, soccer or track and field, it does matter. For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill, everyone should just be in the same league.

Golf requires some physical fitness and a lot of skills. Strength plays a huge factor when it comes to driving the ball.

Men's longest drive: 516 yards
Men's average drive distance: 230 to 270 yards

Women's longest drive: 349 yards
Women's average drive distance: 195-205 yards

This assumes there's no overlap in the bell curves, which is incredibly unlikely.

The better idea is end gender-segregation entirely, and institute promotion/relegation systems.

Questionmarktarius posted...

The better idea is end gender-segregation entirely, and institute promotion/relegation systems.

Agreed. There's no reason for it.
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Will they? Yes.

Should they?....

ZMythos posted...

It doesn't harm anyone to let trans people compete in sports so why exclude them for no reason?

No one is excluding them. But either they should compete amongst themselves or compete against men. There were dudes that were taking advantage of the climate, identifying as female to demolish records in their division. It was obviously bullshit, shit like that can't be happening when it matters.
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Makeveli_lives posted...

No one is excluding them. But either they should compete amongst themselves or compete against men.

That's exclusion >_>

Makeveli_lives posted...

There were dudes that were taking advantage of the climate, identifying as female to demolish records in their division.

Got any examples of a man who feigned being trans just to win a sport?

Makeveli_lives posted...

shit like that can't be happening when it matters.

It's sports. What matters so much about it that you're trying to segregate a minority population?
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ZMythos posted...

Got any examples of a man who feigned being trans just to win a sport

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8550830/transgender-atheletes-rapper-zuby-weightlifting/

ZMythos posted...

It's sports. What matters so much about it that you're trying to segregate a minority population

This doesnt even fit your own sjw narrative, were supposed to believe womens sports are super important and paid equivalent to mens sports despite drawing less than 1% of the money

defauIt posted...

This doesnt even fit your own sjw narrative, were supposed to believe womens sports are super important and paid equivalent to mens sports despite drawing less than 1% of the money

That's another thing unisex promotion & relegation will magically fix.
Pay will be based on demand and ability, instead of genitals.

glitteringfairy posted...

People born women should have the option competing in either men or women's

People born men should be excluded from women's

Still an issue since women would be taking testosterone supplements for their transition. Ftm women have beaten men in athletic events and this has been a point of contention.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

defauIt posted...

This doesnt even fit your own sjw narrative, were supposed to believe womens sports are super important and paid equivalent to mens sports despite drawing less than 1% of the money

That's another thing unisex promotion & relegation will magically fix.
Pay will be based on demand and ability, instead of genitals.

Its 100% demand, conor mcgregor doesnt beat jon jones, ability leads to championships which can create demand

Im basically agreeing though

glitteringfairy posted...

People born women should have the option competing in either men or women's

People born men should be excluded from women's

This

Edit: actually if a person is transitioning from female to male they're probably taking testosterone and should be barred from women's sports
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Solid Snake07 posted...

glitteringfairy posted...

People born women should have the option competing in either men or women's

People born men should be excluded from women's

This

Thats how bathrooms should work too

defauIt posted...

https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/8550830/transgender-atheletes-rapper-zuby-weightlifting/

I mean the person in the article didn't actually undergo transition and just pretended to identify as a woman.

also:

Under guidelines introduced in 2016, the IOC allows athletes transitioning from female to male to participate without restrictions.

Male to female competitors are required to have kept their levels of testosterone - a hormone that increases muscle mass - below a certain level for at least 12 months.

So it's almost as if you googled "transgender sports cheating" and pasted the first result you found instead of finding actual evidence.

defauIt posted...

This doesnt even fit your own sjw narrative, were supposed to believe womens sports are super important and paid equivalent to mens sports despite drawing less than 1% of the money

When have I ever taken this position?
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ZMythos posted...

I mean the person in the article didn't actually undergo transition and just pretended to identify as a woman

"Yeah but.. Yeah but"

ZMythos posted...

When have I ever taken this position

Idk I dont follow you around

defauIt posted...

"Yeah but.. Yeah but"

Nice nonresponse

defauIt posted...

Idk I dont follow you around

Then stop putting words in my mouth.

Stop segregating by gender and create an open ranked league if it really matters.
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Questionmarktarius posted...

SuperExcitebike posted...

It shouldn't be allowed

"Equality!! - except for reasons I don't like!"

stupid post
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They should all be required to compete in the men's division.
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Ic3Bullet posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill,

LOL

There's a reason male golfers in the PGA have to tee-off from a greater distance. And if golf doesn't require any skill, go show us by beating Tiger Woods.

I meant physical skill. Golf does require skill, just not really any physical skill.

I'll say the exact same thing about chess, that doesn't mean I think I have any chance against a pro chess player.
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ZMythos posted...

It doesn't harm anyone to let trans people compete in sports so why exclude them for no reason?

It harms women. It harms their chances to qualify for certain competitions. It harms their chances to get a medal. It harms their chances to get a scholarship. If it's a sport that has a lot of physical contact, it will hurt women physically. And if it's a sport that involves fighting like MMA and boxing, it can result in serious injuries for women.

And before you say I don't care about women sports, let me tell you that I watch women's sports. Women's boxing, women's MMA, women's track & field, women's swimming and women's diving.
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If all the transgender women beat all the women then it's an issue. Otherwise let it be. Equal rights.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

Ic3Bullet posted...

DifferentialEquation posted...

For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill,

LOL

There's a reason male golfers in the PGA have to tee-off from a greater distance. And if golf doesn't require any skill, go show us by beating Tiger Woods.

I meant physical skill. Golf does require skill, just not really any physical skill.

I'll say the exact same thing about chess, that doesn't mean I think I have any chance against a pro chess player.

So you don't think a stronger person will hit the ball further than a weaker person?
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Hey look, more people with made-up science trying to argue how they know better than the goddamned Olympic committee that spent years figuring out what parameters to set in order to allow trans competition with other members of their gender.

I get that you all hate antivaxxers for their made up "facts" but some of you nosedive at the chance to use fake and made up concepts (biological woman, born man, etc.) that you heard one time.
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And you are?
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Sure why not. Put a female to male transgender in men's boxing or ufc fight.

See how that goes.

gunplagirl posted...

Hey look, more people with made-up science trying to argue how they know better than the goddamned Olympic committee that spent years figuring out what parameters to set in order to allow trans competition with other members of their gender.

I get that you all hate antivaxxers for their made up "facts" but some of you nosedive at the chance to use fake and made up concepts (biological woman, born man, etc.) that you heard one time.

Hey look, it's the person who love to make shit up about everything.

Men are taller than women. Men have high bone density than women. Men have more muscle mass than women. Men have BIGGER lungs than women. Transitioning only reduces muscle mass, but it won't make someone shorter, lower their bone density, or make their lungs smaller. And even with reduced muscle mass, they still have more muscle mass than women 3 years after taking androgen blockers.

That's real science, not the same as the bullshit you make up to justify your nonsense. The IOC is trying be "inclusive", but it doesn't mean they're right. HS sports doesn't require anything other than someone identity as their preferred gender. No surgery, no androgen blockers, nothing. Nothing is properly regulated outside of IOC and women are getting dominated.

But go ahead, continue to be dishonest and spread your bs.
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Austin_Era_II posted...

And you are?

Just mention stuff like genotype, DNA, and Y chromosomes and she should go away with her "fake science" schtick

ZMythos posted...

Stop segregating by gender and create an open ranked league if it really matters.

This is a disengenuous reply, theres actually a woman who played as a goalie in the nhl for like one day. Women would be in the nhl/nfl/nba if they were physically capable

gunplagirl posted...

Hey look, more people with made-up science trying to argue how they know better than the goddamned Olympic committee that spent years figuring out what parameters to set in order to allow trans competition with other members of their gender.

I get that you all hate antivaxxers for their made up "facts" but some of you nosedive at the chance to use fake and made up concepts (biological woman, born man, etc.) that you heard one time.

"Biological woman" is a made up concept now?
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DifferentialEquation posted...

For sports like golf that don't require any physical fitness or skill

Obviously you're not a golfer.
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The Admiral posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Hey look, more people with made-up science trying to argue how they know better than the goddamned Olympic committee that spent years figuring out what parameters to set in order to allow trans competition with other members of their gender.

I get that you all hate antivaxxers for their made up "facts" but some of you nosedive at the chance to use fake and made up concepts (biological woman, born man, etc.) that you heard one time.

"Biological woman" is a made up concept now?

You're literally replying to gunplagirl...
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We may be entering an era where the best male and female athletes alike are the ones born with penises.

No amount of estrogen can compensate for the natural muscle mass accumulated by transwomen. The only way to be fair to everyone is if there are enough trans athletes to have a third division. Otherwise, it's like letting superheroes compete. And that brings up the question of whether to be unfair to the few or unfair to the many.

it's just sports no reason to get your knickers in a bunch
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GreatEvilEmpire posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Hey look, more people with made-up science trying to argue how they know better than the goddamned Olympic committee that spent years figuring out what parameters to set in order to allow trans competition with other members of their gender.

I get that you all hate antivaxxers for their made up "facts" but some of you nosedive at the chance to use fake and made up concepts (biological woman, born man, etc.) that you heard one time.

Hey look, it's the person who love to make shit up about everything.

Men are taller than women. Men have high bone density than women. Men have more muscle mass than women. Men have BIGGER lungs than women. Transitioning only reduces muscle mass, but it won't make someone shorter, lower their bone density, or make their lungs smaller. And even with reduced muscle mass, they still have more muscle mass than women 3 years after taking androgen blockers.

That's real science, not the same as the bullshit you make up to justify your nonsense. The IOC is trying be "inclusive", but it doesn't mean they're right. HS sports doesn't require anything other than someone identity as their preferred gender. No surgery, no androgen blockers, nothing. Nothing is properly regulated outside of IOC and women are getting dominated.

But go ahead, continue to be dishonest and spread your bs.

People of African descent have denser bones. We don't use race science like that to designate black men and women as in a league above all other races, despite the fact that there ARE an extremely high proportion of black athletes in running events taking home medals. Speaking of which, how many trans athletes who have made it to the Olympics have won a gold medal, and how many trans athletes in total have there been?

You're also ignoring that there's trans people who transitioned and were on hormone blockers before puberty, preventing that "bone mass" argument from ever coming in to play for trans women.

Gonna need you to cite at least two reports that verify your "even after 3 years" claim for muscle mass, and at least one has to actually acknowledge the concept of muscle atrophy in it with a control group that didn't exercise while on androgen blockers. For what it's worth, I'll even ignore the country the study comes from, as the most commonly prescribed blocker in the US isn't as effective as the one in other Western nations.

If you're getting pissed over high school sports, consider the following: can you name ANY trans athletes who transitioned, participated, and have earned an athletics scholarship? Any at all?
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DirkDiggles posted...

They should have their own division.

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The Admiral posted...

gunplagirl posted...

Hey look, more people with made-up science trying to argue how they know better than the goddamned Olympic committee that spent years figuring out what parameters to set in order to allow trans competition with other members of their gender.

I get that you all hate antivaxxers for their made up "facts" but some of you nosedive at the chance to use fake and made up concepts (biological woman, born man, etc.) that you heard one time.

"Biological woman" is a made up concept now?

Go ahead and find any examples of it in a research paper. You'll find the terms "phenotypic" and "genotypic" sex but when literal geneticists are saying "biological sex" is a misnomer at best, well. Hey, congrats on being off purgatory.
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DirkDiggles posted...

They should have their own division.

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