Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 16: Conflict Resolution

(+) Yeah! (+)

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Playerlist (14 alive)
1. Pezloco
2. UltimaterializerX
3. Lea3Lea
4. Benjamin
5. SBell (Obellisk)
6. Camarija
7. 5tarscream
8. Hbthebattle
9. Death (HtaeD)
10. Tom Bombadil
11. Lopen
12. turbopuns3
13. Corrik
14. Lolo_Guru

Deadlist (7 dead)
LD1 - Luis_Sera aka The One Ring (Lord of the Rings), MAFIA Redirector
KN1 - Scarechan (replaced eaedwards) aka J.D. Salinger (as portrayed on BoJack Horseman), TOWN Villager
LD2 - Red13n aka Nyarlathotep (H.P. Lovecraft), MAFIA Backup
MKN2 - TheSultanOfSlam aka Atticus Finch (To Kill A Mockingbird), TOWN Mayor
KN2 - Dowolf aka Piggy (Lord of the Flies), TOWN Kingmaker
KN2 - Sir Chris aka g (the English alphabet), TOWN Villager
LD3 - MZero aka Petra Arkanian (Enders Game), TOWN Villager

Votals
(3) Ben: Lopen, Hb, Death
(2) Lea: puns, 5tar
(1) Pez: (Lea), Ulti, (Lea)
(1) Death: (Lea), Corrik
(1) puns: Lea
(1) Lolo: (puns), Lopen, (Hb)
(0) Cam: (Ulti)


With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to reach a majority. Day will end on Saturday, June 29th at 9PM EDT or if majority is reached ahead of time.

Wait what the heck, I'm sure I voted Pez

##Vote: Pez

UltimaterializerX posted...

Is the claimed cop seriously the lynch leader? Like is this real life?

It's not up to date but yeah

Weird stuff

Learning to read people and not claims is a significant step to getting better at mafia

Don't just take a claim as it stands on paper. Figure out why it would be claimed now as opposed to a different time, whether the claim is consistent with the player's behavior over the course of the game, what the player stands to gain as either alignment to claim, the overall probability that they actually are that claim with their results, and of course weigh the player's overall contributions to the game.

Scum outnumber any given power role at a rate of 5 or 6:1, just remember that when considering whether a player could be lying.
---

There is no benefit to scum benefit mislynching town Pez or town death and then getting lynched the next day. None. Especially for such easy hypothetical mislynches. He didn't get cold feet after learning no one would buy the insanity defense. It makes zero sense for scum to do, though yes I strongly disagree

##Unvote

##Vote: Pez

Ben musn't die

I am surprised and bothered that Pez isnt voting Ben
Maybe he actually is offering us one scum.
---

Lopen posted...

Learning to read people and not claims is a significant step to getting better at mafia

Don't just take a claim as it stands on paper. Figure out why it would be claimed now as opposed to a different time, whether the claim is consistent with the player's behavior over the course of the game, what the player stands to gain as either alignment to claim, the overall probability that they actually are that claim with their results, and of course weigh the player's overall contributions to the game.

Scum outnumber any given power role at a rate of 5 or 6:1, just remember that when considering whether a player could be lying.

That's fine and well,

But I don't think you've done an adequate job explaining your list of Mafia reads independent of claims

In fact, your read on me seems to rely on me being a specific role, lost wolf, which exactly negates your mini lecture here

I'm happy to listen to your logic, but as it stands I have had Pez independently Mafia for days now, and your list keeps getting worse and worse

Lea3Lea posted...

There is no benefit to scum benefit mislynching town Pez or town death and then getting lynched the next day. None. Especially for such easy hypothetical mislynches. He didn't get cold feet after learning no one would buy the insanity defense. It makes zero sense for scum to do, though yes I strongly disagree

##Unvote

##Vote: Pez

Ben musn't die

Thats bullshit, scum makes trades all the time.
---

The big strikes against Ben are

1. In his votes. Town isn't often going to be wrong that many times in a row, statistically

2. It's not logical to hold two scum scans till today with 2 mafia down. Yesterday just makes more sense. Imagine if today we have a dead on scum scan, and yesterday we were right. It would basically be impossible to lose.

3. Ben's scan target for night 3 does not follow from his suspicions or the result of day 3 in a way that makes sense.

4. Ben has generally played a very passive game otherwise. He did not push for lynches on his scans in any meaningful way, and has basically just been "town clearing" with poor justification.

My other theories frankly have no bearing on Ben's scumminess. He exists as his own thing.
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

Is the claimed cop seriously the lynch leader? Like is this real life?

I feel like everyone in this game is doing anything they possibly can to not follow an uncountered cop claim made with 1/3rd of the game not claimed yet that fits perfectly in the setup.

There is 100% zero excuse.

Vote Death. He is dying tonight.
---

All of those things are certainly true. I was positive Ben was going to admit he had nothing. But he didn't, and I just can't wrap my head around the pointless suicide. If Ben doesn't claim the lynch today is probably just, like, me

Sure. If Pez and Death flip scum I was wrong because I don't buy a scum killing 2 scum to townclear himself.

Now what if they don't?
---

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lopen posted...

The big strikes against Ben are

1. In his votes. Town isn't often going to be wrong that many times in a row, statistically

2. It's not logical to hold two scum scans till today with 2 mafia down. Yesterday just makes more sense. Imagine if today we have a dead on scum scan, and yesterday we were right. It would basically be impossible to lose.

3. Ben's scan target for night 3 does not follow from his suspicions or the result of day 3 in a way that makes sense.

4. Ben has generally played a very passive game otherwise. He did not push for lynches on his scans in any meaningful way, and has basically just been "town clearing" with poor justification.

My other theories frankly have no bearing on Ben's scumminess. He exists as his own thing.

What if Pez and Death flip scum?

Then Ben was telling the truth probably.
However, I dont think thats the most likely road.
---

Lopen posted...

Sure. If Pez and Death flip scum I was wrong because I don't buy a scum killing 2 scum to townclear himself.

Now what if they don't?

We lynch you
---

I would love for lopen to tell me everyone's percentage of times they voted town this game. Half the game isn't even flipped.
---

We have 3 major wagons we can gauge. Ben joined and exited them at really unflattering times for him. I believe based on those Wagons Ben looks the worst in the game overall.
---

Day 1 was robbed of information due to Kingmaker.
Day 3 was a town-town lynch.
Day 2 was the only scum one and it was a scan result.

Like, what are you even talking about?
---

Lopen, if you are town, get off the contrarian tin foil bandwagon!
---

K going through Ben's game now.
---

Day 1 we had a dowolf lynch before kingmaker

Day 2 we have reactions to the scum lynch before the scan

Day 3 Lolo isn't confirmed yet, and is likely scum, but we can call that one pending

You are being intentionally obtuse here, I think.
---

Fun fact

If Ben is Town and NOT Cop, his odds of correctly guessing all 3 alignments for all 3 players is 4.6875%

I'm not actually being contrarian looking at the votes.
---

Corrik7 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

htaeD posted...

Ben
1: You posted a list of not town reads and included me on it. (also I am pretty sure you called me scummy before that)

2. I thought that specifically when I woke up and saw posts discussing why scum would keep red alive. But to be more loosely accurate, I do always wonder who the nightkill is going to be every time. Because sometimes I either fear of getting killed as townpower, or I want to get killed as town nilla.

List of not town reads doesn't equate to saying you're scum. It's just posting the names not on my town list since my town list is bigger than those not on it. You seem either paranoid, or reaching to be able to say you're worried about me!

htaeD posted...

Sure sounds like it to me!
You even said all the scum were likely in your list (of 7 players)

Then again I somehow confused your past towngames for scumgames too, largely due to what I remember is you trying to get me to crack. So maybe a little paranoid.

But it still feels different.

Btw who thinks that exchange Corrik posted looks like an exchange between someone who has a guilty scan on them and a cop. Does anyone? We've had no reactions to this.
---

Camarija posted...

Fun fact

If Ben is Town and NOT Cop, his odds of correctly guessing all 3 alignments for all 3 players is 4.6875%

Statistically, at least one of his Mafia reads would be wrong just by guessing

I guess what I'm saying is, if Ben is a Town just faking it, Mafia would flock to whichever of his Mafia checks is more likely to be wrong

In this case, I'm feeling a Red flip over a Death flip, but I'll defer what is left of the wisdom of the crowd

Also Pez is a really hard sell as scum to me. Do you think he busses Red like he did? He was part of the reason that case got off the ground, and part of the reason it wasn't necessarily a lost cause before 5tar came in.

Just doesn't seem likely to me.
---

Votals (226)
(3) Ben: Lopen, Hb, Death
(3) Pez: (Lea), Ulti, (Lea), Cam, Lea
(1) Death: (Lea), Corrik, (Lea)
(1) Lolo: (puns), Lopen, (Hb)
(0) Lea: (puns), (5tar)
(0) puns: (Lea)
(0) Cam: (Ulti)


With 14 players alive, it takes 8 votes to reach a majority. Day will end on Saturday, June 29th at 9PM EDT or if majority is reached ahead of time.

---

NIGHT 2

*sees Sultan flip Mayor*

Okay now I really want to scan Dowolf. ..Nah, he'd be the equivalent of the FD scum mayor if he's scum. Can just let him be and if he's alive at end game then he'll be obvious. So that one I feel is too self-resolving down the road to be good scan.

HOWEVER...I think I want to figure out the roommates. I also want to make sure to actually scan someone on my "non-town reads" list. Gotta commit to that. And since Tom is calling Pez scum and Pez is calling Tom town, the obvious scan here is Pez. I dont see a world where it's reversed and Tom is scum but Pez is town. So either they're both scum, both town, or this is the right choice. Also I'm looking at the end of day 1 when Chris recieved Conch powers to try and get some reads from that and Pez didnt post AT ALL. Maybe he was busy I dont remember. But since I am getting nothing from him there, my urge to scan him increases!

Further, read Ben's fabricated journal entry on Pez. He actually doesn't mention the red lynch at all. To me that's a natural first thing to weigh, but it isn't even considered. I imagine because he forgot about it and just remembered day 3.
---

Through 3 topics Ben posts a lot but the only real read he seems to make is that he thinks HB is confirmed town. Questions a lot of others who are making sweeping claims regarding alignment. Ends topic 3 voting Dowolf who he says he has no reason to think he is town.

Votes Mzero same reasoning.

Defends HB a lot. It looked like based on joke reasoning but he starts to believe this as he hard defends HB after this all through topic 5. He doesn't like Mzero or Dowolf not for being scum but not showing they are town yet.

Topic 6 he says Puns and Scare are town. Puns likely town. Scare def town. Topic 6 says Dowolf is scum on his takes. Scare "super town".

Topic 6

benjamin3740 posted...

misereet

benjamin3740 posted...

Lolo_Guru posted...

Who don't you like this game ben?

Mzero, dowolf, Corrik,

There's death who I never feel good about but he can wait for that very reason.

There's some more I don't have town reads on yet like you, Lopen, and Luis. But you haven't posted and the other two I have never played with and don't know their quirks

Doesn't want to lynch Chris.

Sbell no opinion.

Wants to lynch Mzero or Dowolf.

Wants kingmaker power given to Puns or Scare.

Then says let Chris have it.

benjamin3740 posted...

Yeah he's probably town if he put that in Chris' hands.

Topic 7

Dowolf is town for this in his opinion.

Sam I Am flavor claim

benjamin3740 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

(1) Sir Chris: (Tom), (Ben), (puns), (Sultan), (Scare), Corrik, (puns), (Lea)

But not Tom. Or Sultan.

Bens, Scare, Corrik, Lea, Puns.

One of you shall DIE today

Of those - CORRIK PLEASE

I was the only one of those he thought could be scum earlier. Was dowolf, Mzero, Me. Then he added Sbell but dropped off dowolf later.

Calls puns confirmed town.

benjamin3740 posted...

Day 1 Townies:
Tom
Puns
Scare
Lea
Cam
HB
Dowolf

Probably someone im missing because I don't take notes and haven't looked at the playerlist

---

Ben posted...

Day 1 Townies:
Tom
Dowolf

Ben journal entry posted...

Okay now I really want to scan Dowolf

Also day 3 scan on Tom.

V consistent logic from this guy
---

Day 2 Topic 7

benjamin3740 posted...

Why death on the town list, Chris?

Basically his first post after Scare I will avenge you.

5tar is town he says Topic 7.

benjamin3740 posted...

So here's all my NOT town reads as of yet.

Mzero
Corrik
Lolo
Death
Pez
Sbell
Lopen

And I expect ALL (4 or 5) of the scum are in there. YEP. All of em.

Says add red to this list also.

Pez and Corrik are juicy.

Says Pez looks horrible to him because he keeps saying he wants to lynch Sultan after lynching red today. Topic 8.

benjamin3740 posted...

htaeD posted...

4th thought: Starting to get worried about Ben.
Yes he always calls me scum, but now it feels more like he is doing it because its expected of him

Point to where I did that?

benjamin3740 posted...

htaeD posted...

The red stuff is a little much to take in all at once.
I will get back to it when I am more awake, but I did think that scum wouldnt shoot a townred because he looks too scummy for them to want to kill him anyway. But he could also just be scum yes.

When did you think that? When you were planning the shot? (Okay NOW I just insinuated you're scum LOL)

---

benjamin3740 posted...

htaeD posted...

As an extension of that, Mzero has some good townish fire going on when he calls Sbell salty.

Question for
Why did you have red in your town reads?

I missed his name. Skimmed down the playerlist but still skipped his somehow. Then a few minutes later saw someone mention Red and remembered I didn't put him on the NON- town reads list

benjamin3740 posted...

htaeD posted...

Ben
1: You posted a list of not town reads and included me on it. (also I am pretty sure you called me scummy before that)

2. I thought that specifically when I woke up and saw posts discussing why scum would keep red alive. But to be more loosely accurate, I do always wonder who the nightkill is going to be every time. Because sometimes I either fear of getting killed as townpower, or I want to get killed as town nilla.

List of not town reads doesn't equate to saying you're scum. It's just posting the names not on my town list since my town list is bigger than those not on it. You seem either paranoid, or reaching to be able to say you're worried about me!

Says he is starting to like Corrik as Town

benjamin3740 posted...

Are we ready for my 5 scum list?

Chris, remember the time you asked me in PM after I died to name the scum team and I did? Well im feeling close to approaching that. Not all the way there, but if I had to name the entire scum team right now it would be

Red
Mzero
Pez
Sbell
Death

---

SBell has appeared on every list of scum he's made. Interesting he chose to scan Tom over SBell night 3. Especially since SBell was on the confirmed town lynch
---

Lopen posted...

The big strikes against Ben are

1. In his votes. Town isn't often going to be wrong that many times in a row, statistically

2. It's not logical to hold two scum scans till today with 2 mafia down. Yesterday just makes more sense. Imagine if today we have a dead on scum scan, and yesterday we were right. It would basically be impossible to lose.

3. Ben's scan target for night 3 does not follow from his suspicions or the result of day 3 in a way that makes sense.

4. Ben has generally played a very passive game otherwise. He did not push for lynches on his scans in any meaningful way, and has basically just been "town clearing" with poor justification.

My other theories frankly have no bearing on Ben's scumminess. He exists as his own thing.

1. Excuse me? The only person I've unfortunately mislynched is Mzero. How is that statistically impossible for town? Plus I put ALL the blame on him for getting lynched there.

2. As soon as I reveal my scans im dead. I believe it was worth it to get one more scan off. Mzero was possible scum in my eyes anyway and worth lynching just fine.

3. Wrong? I thought Sbell was town and there was a huge chance 5tar covers Lolo since people were encouraging him to.

4. Passive, sure. I guess. I've been intentionally laying low at times due to my role and all
---

You want the real tinfoil hat theory? Ben was going to name 3 scum scans, with the third being SBell, until he saw the reaction to the absurdity of 3 scum scans.
---

End of Day 2

benjamin3740 posted...

If i combine mine and Chris' town reads I get a nice big list of

2. UltimaterializerX
3. Lea3Lea
7. Camarija
10. 5tarscream
11. Hbthebattle
13. Tom Bombadil
14. TheSultanOfSlam
15. Lopen
16. turbopuns3
17. Corrik
18. Lolo_Guru
19. Dowolf

Which means these are the 4 I'm looking at going forward.

Death
Mzero
Sbell
Pez

benjamin3740 posted...

htaeD posted...

if it comes down to red or Mzero I do like the latter less. Mostly because there is less to go on.

Which is why I hope Mzero does show up in the next 90 minutes.

Death your reasoning here doesnt make sense to me. Less to go on?

This is day 3 but he posted it in the wrong topic.

Basically first post of day 3 is the following...

benjamin3740 posted...

In fact, show me who was saying Pez is town and Tom is scum. Because that goes against what both roommates are telling us

benjamin3740 posted...

So like, we have Pez calling Tom town and Tom calling Pez scum. If they're so good at reading each other then there can never be a world where the opposite is true, correct? No world where Pez is town and Tom is scum.

Maybe they're both town, maybe they're both scum, but killing Pez would be smart. Mainly I want to kill him because I've personally thought he's sounded kinda fake all game and he's on my now very small list of non-town reads

---

benjamin3740 posted...

I thought Sbell was town

Explain when and how you came to this conclusion when you've not shifted any of your other scum reads
---

benjamin3740 posted...

Tom, you're killing Pez today or I'll kill YOU

benjamin3740 posted...

Okay you have my blessing to kill both Pez and Tom, but always Pez first because of the logic I posted earlier.

That said

##Vote: Mzero

Only one person needs to claim today

benjamin3740 posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

Puns who do you think is scum the most?

My posts today indicate the answer

(SBell)

Okay cool.

##Unvote
##Vote: Sbell

You're the only one I can trust.

Well, besides these people

2. UltimaterializerX
3. Lea3Lea
4. Benjamin
6. Camarija
8. 5tarscream
9. Hbthebattle
12. Lopen
14. Corrik
15. Lolo_Guru

But you're the only one I can trust to be smart. Also fairly sure we're at the stage where we can just lynch everyone not on this list and win.

benjamin3740 posted...

Lynch this list and we win

Mzero
Sbell
Tom
Pez
Death

Han I want you to pin that in the scum Discord so that they can see the countdown to their obliteration.

I notice a familiar thing where the ones he scanned at night are the last on his lists.

benjamin3740 posted...

I ditto flavor scanning HB. 3 Harry Potter roles is kind of unbelievable. Scum Lolo wouldn't have came out with one with two on the table and with 5tar claimed. HB claimed before scum knew about flavor scanner, so if scum he'd have claimed off the safelist and can thus be resolved with the scan.

I really want to kill one of the roommates today. I see Tom is slowly backing out of his Pez scum read. Every time Pez tries to tell me what each of them would be doing if they were both scum it comes off so fake. I get roommate powers. You can read each other well. When town. It sounds fake.

Tom suspicion.
---

Hbthebattle posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lopen posted...

The big strikes against Ben are

1. In his votes. Town isn't often going to be wrong that many times in a row, statistically

2. It's not logical to hold two scum scans till today with 2 mafia down. Yesterday just makes more sense. Imagine if today we have a dead on scum scan, and yesterday we were right. It would basically be impossible to lose.

3. Ben's scan target for night 3 does not follow from his suspicions or the result of day 3 in a way that makes sense.

4. Ben has generally played a very passive game otherwise. He did not push for lynches on his scans in any meaningful way, and has basically just been "town clearing" with poor justification.

My other theories frankly have no bearing on Ben's scumminess. He exists as his own thing.

What if Pez and Death flip scum?

Then Ben was telling the truth probably.
However, I dont think thats the most likely road.

Lopen posted...

Day 1 we had a dowolf lynch before kingmaker

Day 2 we have reactions to the scum lynch before the scan

Day 3 Lolo isn't confirmed yet, and is likely scum, but we can call that one pending

You are being intentionally obtuse here, I think.

We did not have a dowolf lynch. I voted dowolf to pressure him to claim
---

benjamin3740 posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

benjamin3740 posted...

I ditto flavor scanning HB. 3 Harry Potter roles is kind of unbelievable. Scum Lolo wouldn't have came out with one with two on the table and with 5tar claimed. HB claimed before scum knew about flavor scanner, so if scum he'd have claimed off the safelist and can thus be resolved with the scan.

I really want to kill one of the roommates today. I see Tom is slowly backing out of his Pez scum read. Every time Pez tries to tell me what each of them would be doing if they were both scum it comes off so fake. I get roommate powers. You can read each other well. When town. It sounds fake.

They're probably both scum.

You feel it too?

##Unvote
##Vote: Pez

Tommy boy, you've been complaining day 1 and 2 that you can't vote Pez because no one would listen. Will you join in our crusade?

benjamin3740 posted...

Lopen posted...

If you think Tom and Pez are both scum why not vote Tom? You know, the one who has actually gotten some arguments to lynch and such?

Because Pez has been calling Tom town all game. To the point of using him in that ISO. He is trying to play the roommate powers card on Tom. The one reality that is impossible is Pez town/Tom scum. Unless you think Pez is that bad at his one job

---

benjamin3740 posted...

MZero11 posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

Oh hey, Mzero is here to claim or die

Nah

A third route has been unlocked

>Claim
>Die
>Vote Pez

benjamin3740 posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

Also it's not an inactivity issue at this point, Mzero just has no town thought process at all behind who he thinks is town or scum. He's clearly operating under "result first, reasoning comes after" from secret scum knowledge. But sigh. Lopen is my shepard in these trying times.

Get back on MZero and murder him with me. Lolo is strictly a worse lynch than him.

Agree with this and will absolutely kill you, Mzero, if you dont join on Pez

---

Lopen posted...

SBell has appeared on every list of scum he's made. Interesting he chose to scan Tom over SBell night 3. Especially since SBell was on the confirmed town lynch

Thats a pretty good argument. I'm surprised I'm not a town cleared scan.
---

benjamin3740 posted...

I voted dowolf to pressure him to claim

benjamin3740 posted...

htaeD posted...

Whats everyone's take on dowolf btw?

Scum

---

I'm getting bored, but yadda yadda not a single thing Ben has said here doesn't line up with what he has said all game.

He has Death as scum randomly day 2 to the point Death who certainly notices it gets bothered about it. Ben never even gives real reasoning for it. He just keeps putting death behind others, likely to hide it.

Day 2 he starts saying Pez is scum. It gets sidetracked by red hard. He questions Tom for backing off of Pez.

Day 3 he is pushing for pez repeatedly as you all go for Mzero and Lolo.

I don't even see where Ben has gotten too much wrong as Lopen says. If anything, Ben has been pretty on point with a lot of his reads as they develop past the first day.
---

I like how you post all that stuff with glaring contradictions, particularly on SBell (made more,amusing when Ben claimed he thought SBell was TOWN in this very page)

Makes me want to do my own iso under suspicion you conveniently skipped some stuff
---

Anyone not lynching Death today is insane or mafia. No excuses of any kind.
---

Lopen posted...

Ben posted...

Day 1 Townies:
Tom
Dowolf

Ben journal entry posted...

Okay now I really want to scan Dowolf

Also day 3 scan on Tom.

V consistent logic from this guy

F you I said in the PM that I almost wanted to scan dowolf because Sultan flipped mayor.

And I said on day 3 I took Tom off the town list. Mostly because night 2 I confirmed Pez scum
---

The reason Lopen comes off as more and more scum here is because when we lynch Death and he flips scum. Scum basically has lost.

It basically confirms Lolo, Me, Ben, 5tar as all town over tonight. Granted 2 of those 4 will die at night. It confirms Death/Pez Scum and Tom as town scanning.

It also means we have 2 scanners that they cannot touch tonight reliably without playing chicken with me or shooting me directly and ignoring them. With the confirmed pool at this point, the game is basically a connect the dots puzzle.

Scum almost can't let this lynch go through. They need the extra night for the mislynch to kill more scanners and to get past protection. Lynching a scanner today just makes their life so much easier.

No one with any ounce of sanity is voting for anyone other than Death or Pez today. (We are lynching Death).
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