Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 259: Raucous Caucus Robots

(+) Yeah! (+)

Reg posted...

(Also, Wang, you will forgive people for thinking you're conservative/alt-right if most of what you've been doing for years is spouting alt-right or adjacent talking points while claiming to not be one. You have been consistently called out on this for a very long time now)

i ain't forgiving shit.
conservative i can somewhat understand from die hard progressives that have no idea of what left and right are and attribute anything to the right of parties like democrat socialist as right wing. that's just a clear case of them being ignorant and falling into left wing extremism. that ain't most people here, hell we've got people close to communists that know the difference better. alt right i specifically pointed out "today." that meaning had a good nebulous while but nowadays it's a pretty clear one: people who those in here have agreed to punch and be violent against. so no, forgive nothing.


---

Jakyl25 posted...

Hey heres something Trump was thinking about doing: prison reform

Hows that coming along? Asking honestly out of ignorance.

Not super.

I mean, yeah, First Step Act was passed and that's a step in the right direction but predictably the administration hasn't been implementing it great. You have DOJ blocking hundreds of eligible beneficiaries for sentence reductions approved by judges and DOJ also sourcing its staffing of the Independent Review Committee which advises on assessment systems for inmates to a conservative think tank that published a 2016 article called "Why Trump Should Oppose Criminal Justice Reform."

so you know... about how you'd expect.

---

Glad Bernie apologized for this:

https://twitter.com/shanegoldmacher/status/1219455944976928768?s=21

---

We can disagree with each other without being disagreeable, without being hateful. That is not what American politics should be about."

Oh naive Bernie
---

bernie really is too nice to win. admirable but damn.

---

Bernie is going to win his way or not at all. Infinite respect for my man.

---

Huh.
Strangely relevent topic was on tucker.

Pew poll saying only 31% believing the economy was helping them, 32% believing it was helping the middle class (58% believing it was hurting), and among lower income Republicans 47% said it's hurting them while 30% said helping.

The issues of wages vs. expenses and debt being on tucker is pretty interesting. He's who Trump watches the most so let's see if anything happens there.

---

What middle class?
---

Wanglicious posted...

conservative i can somewhat understand from die hard progressives that have no idea of what left and right are and attribute anything to the right of parties like democrat socialist as right wing. that's just a clear case of them being ignorant and falling into left wing extremism.

https://twitter.com/ibrahimpols/status/1219371279159087104?s=21

As left wing extremists, AOC and I disagree
---

The Democratic Party is probably further left on social issues than any purported center-left party in the world

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

The Democratic Party is probably further left on social issues than any purported center-left party in the world

Isnt that only because most of the world is even more incredibly transphobic than even America is?

Ill give you that one issue
---

The rest of the world is very xenophobic as well, and America has way fewer left-wing anti-Semites.

---

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/ibrahimpols/status/1219371279159087104?s=21

As left wing extremists, AOC and I disagree

And as a liberal I find that pretty absurd. But that's the nature of extremism and you know you're far left. I'd like to think you can identify left wing politics from right wing but I admittedly don't know how well you see things today. If you're gonna call everything to the right of social democrats as right wing you've just lost everybody.

---

What if I call some of them centrists
---

In addition to xenophobia I'd also throw in abortion. If that sounds crazy do realize we've got more lax laws on that than Canada and if we're talking just democrats it gets even broader.

Jakyl25 posted...

What if I call some of them centrists

Many liberals are so that's not inherently wrong. Left of center often sure but they're relatively in that vacinity.

---

Kinglicious posted...

In addition to xenophobia I'd also throw in abortion. If that sounds crazy do realize we've got more lax laws on that than Canada and if we're talking just democrats it gets even broader.

Oh yeah knew I was forgetting some stuff. That's a big one.

---

Ive said it before but maybe not in this topic, to me personally I see Mayor Pete as the farthest right anyone could go before they become a total lost cause. Like I would love a world where his views represent mainstream right wing thought, even though I am still far far left of him.
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

The Democratic Party is probably further left on social issues than any purported center-left party in the world

They are 100000% not further left on social issues than the UK Labour Party which purports left of centre.

Like.

WOW.

---

I'm not sure labour is pretending to be center left with Corbyn in charge. He's obviously not.

Jakyl25 posted...

Ive said it before but maybe not in this topic, to me personally I see Mayor Pete as the farthest right anyone could go before they become a total lost cause. Like I would love a world where his views represent mainstream right wing thought, even though I am still far far left of him.

Mm... Still don't like Pete and it's partially because I don't know what he really believes. He's one of those candidates going through the motions but that's it. I don't consider many to be lost causes though, it's only when we get to extremes i start feeling that way. Or for a particular issue, identity politics as it tends to be a cancer on issues.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Glad Bernie apologized for this:

https://twitter.com/shanegoldmacher/status/1219455944976928768?s=21

Bernie and Biden always seemed like buds. I dunno why but I never sensed any animosity between them as far apart as they are politically.

Bernie is a classy dude though, as always.

---

Labour may have been further left than it has been, but it was still a centre-left party.

And the election to replace Corbyn as leader of the party is literally happening now.

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

The Democratic Party is probably further left on social issues than any purported center-left party in the world

I'm largely with LotM on this though there may be a few case-by-case exceptions. The argument otherwise laser focuses on economics/social safety net to the exclusion of other issues. Which, yes, that is very important but there's more than just that and they're related to one another!

---

Fair points. Even before him I'd think they were more left than the US Dems. Hope you guys get someone more centered, a literal communist shouldn't head labour.

---

Labour also has one of the aforementioned antisemitism problems (note: I'm definitely not saying all, or even a large fraction, of Labour are antisemites, but it should be something that's absolutely not tolerated period, which is the case in the Democratic party).

---

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/20/politics/dershowitz-impeachment-much-more-correct-cnntv/index.html

lmao fuck this (accused) child rapist piece of shit

---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Labour also has one of the aforementioned antisemitism problems (note: I'm definitely not saying all, or even a large fraction, of Labour are antisemites, but it should be something that's absolutely not tolerated period, which is the case in the Democratic party).

Except the Democratic party thinks Israel is a protected state.

---

LOTM, you should probably avoid posting libelous stuff. Like there's no benefit to it whatsoever.

---

Fine, I added in an (accused)

---

Dems vary on that. Some of the more progressive wing has anti semitism as a problem, particularly those focused on identity politics. The rest are mostly fine.

---

https://newatlas.com/health-wellbeing/mdma-psychotherapy-ptsd-expanded-access-fda-maps/

Good job FDA
---

DoomTheGyarados posted...
KamikazePotato posted...

I see the stock market being used as a talking point more than unemployment numbers. The stock market is up! The economy is great! What? Did worker wages go up? No, but the stock market did, so the economy is great!

Are we just going to give this blatantly false bs a pass?

---

Re: Wages/Economy

Not adjusting for inflation, wage growth is at 3.2% YOY which is a bit below where it was pre-Recession. (Actually wage growth spikes right as the recession hits peaking right around Obama's inauguration before it drops to around 2%. It then sloooooooooowly climbs back up over the remainder of his term and was roughly 2.5%ish when it ended). It's actually down over the past few months though.

If you correct for inflation then YOY from November they're up only 1.1%. Economists don't seem to have a definitive answer for why wage growth is so weak (and indeed, decelerating in recent months) when unemployment is so low. Theories range from growing healthcare costs to people in the 25-54 age range not having jobs - the employment-to-population ratio of that group is 80% which is roughly 2007 levels but below 2000 and could act as a wage suppressor.

Meanwhile on the economy writ-large the share of GDP going to labor tanked during the Great Recession (well it really began to tank around 2000 but the Great Recession kicked out the bottom) and has never recovered and is chilling around a 70-year low.

---

Kinglicious posted...

And as a liberal I find that pretty absurd. But that's the nature of extremism and you know you're far left. I'd like to think you can identify left wing politics from right wing but I admittedly don't know how well you see things today. If you're gonna call everything to the right of social democrats as right wing you've just lost everybody.

She isn't wrong. That's why these far left candidates can't win and why Biden is a shoo-in pretty much. Only chance is Warren or Sanders dropping out but even then likely still toast.

---

No, I like AOC but she is wrong.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/26/opinion/sunday/republican-platform-far-right.html

The main thrust of the article (it's a neat article! I've read it in the past but I think I forgot to post it) is how the Republican party is further to the right than most right-wing parties in Europe but if you go down a bit they put all the major parties across the US and Europe on a spectrum based on their platforms.

A bit further down they single out The Democratic Party, Republican Party, Labour, and Conservatives (UK) and examine where they are and how they've moved over the past 20 years. The 2016 Democratic Party is just a shade right of 2017 Labour and both are left of the median if not by much. The Democratic Party is center-left and it has been moving left since 2008 and I have no reason to believe that trajectory has changed in the past 3 years lol.

---

Oh the democratic party has lunged more left than the republican party has gone right since 2016, Trump pushed that one. The middle is bigger than it used to be.

Also i disagree that the far left ones can't win but it depends on the left. If it's social, no. Economic, yes. So Warren is screwed but Bernie's a legit threat. A mix of him, Tulsi, and Yang would leave Trump completely screwed.

---

Kinglicious posted...

Oh the democratic party has lunged more left than the republican party has gone right since 2016, Trump pushed that one. The middle is bigger than it used to be.

not Trump isnt far Left, and all this talk about Dems moved Left but they still happily voted to give Trump his increase to the military budget, his space force, and more.

Kinglicious posted...

Also i disagree that the far left ones can't win but it depends on the left. If it's social, no. Economic, yes. So Warren is screwed but Bernie's a legit threat. A mix of him, Tulsi, and Yang would leave Trump completely screwed.

Social Left cant win?

Its literally won. Gay marriage is law, trans people are in the mainstream, weed is becoming legal, prisons are less popular than ever. What Right-Wing social positions have any traction at all?

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

not Trump isnt far Left, and all this talk about Dems moved Left but they still happily voted to give Trump his increase to the military budget, his space force, and more.

Letting Trump rename a group of preexisting military functions the "space force" in exchange for paid family leave for federal workers seems like a pretty sweet deal to me!

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

not Trump isnt far Left, and all this talk about Dems moved Left but they still happily voted to give Trump his increase to the military budget, his space force, and more.

does this make sanders not far left because he happily voted for the 1994 crime bill /s

edit: damn you lotm i was going to get to that but there's a process to this we have to follow

---

Not sure if this was mentioned before everything got sidelined into the MLK discussion but...

https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1219394380508864513

brace for maximum fuckery

McConnell's rules literally does not automatically admit the House's evidence and subjects it to a vote. this is some

tired: trump didn't do it
wired: okay maybe he did it but there isn't sufficient evidence
inspired: can't convict if there's no evidence in the record

shit

---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Social Left cant win?

I'm talking the more identity politics. Gay marriage hasn't been an issue for a while, trans are certainly mainstream but note that some of that comes with a hard split when sex and gender clash (e.g., sports), and weed being legal is technically something both sides should be able to agree on.

And I didn't mean the elected officials, the voterbase. Dems have gone further to the far left than republicans have to the far right. This isn't new, the data is from 2017 and I don't see why it'd shrink considering we've gotten more polarized since then.

https://www.people-press.org/interactives/political-polarization-1994-2017/


---

LordoftheMorons posted...

Letting Trump rename a group of preexisting military functions the "space force" in exchange for paid family leave for federal workers seems like a pretty sweet deal to me!

...ok

---

i seriously don't get why people are going out of there way to defend that trump tweet.

wang: it's fair if you eyeroll at the tweet.
also wang: the tweet was totally fine!

chris: unemployment is a horrible metric to use to measure how well black people are doing.
also chris: the tweet was totally fine!

at least corrik was consistent and just said there was absolutely nothing wrong with the tweet.

---

also, having dealt with gamergate for years, i will slightly defend wang and point out that they're all over the place politically. like, matt jarbo is a prominent GG figure and he's a huge bernie fan.

i don't care where "the movement as a whole" falls politically (assuming such a thing can even be measured) but just sayin'.

---

xp1337 posted...

Not sure if this was mentioned before everything got sidelined into the MLK discussion but...

https://twitter.com/JoshNBCNews/status/1219394380508864513

brace for maximum fuckery

McConnell's rules literally does not automatically admit the House's evidence and subjects it to a vote. this is some

tired: trump didn't do it
wired: okay maybe he did it but there isn't sufficient evidence
inspired: can't convict if there's no evidence in the record

shit

It's 100% normal for the trial court to decide whether to admit evidence as it is presented. Like every trial court in the country does that, why would the Senate be an exception? If the House wants its evidence considered, it needs to present admissible evidence.

---

Trial juries typically arent coordinating with the defendant

---

https://twitter.com/tomlobianco/status/1219431419342139392?s=21

Truly pathetic of Stefanik (and all of them, but the rest have been embarrassments all along).

---

was the house's evidence subjected to a vote during the bill clinton impeachment process?

---

Mr Lasastryke posted...

was the house's evidence subjected to a vote during the bill clinton impeachment process?

I'd be shocked if it wasn't. That would mean that President Clinton was denied the most basic due process. The court needs to do its job, a part of which is to rule on whether evidence is admissible (i.e. if the whistleblower won't testify, his evidence is getting tossed).

---