Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 310: Kanye Believe It?

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Lincoln Project is not a helpful tool or ally. If the democratic nominee was Sanders or Warren, they would be just fine with Trump. The people at the Lincoln Project just want to go back to the Bush years of the republican party, and the fact they think Biden is closer to the neocon vision than Trump indicates their only major issue with Trump is that he hasn't been hawkish enough. Bidens own campaign strategy has reinforced this, they are making overtures to the 'respectable' right to defeat Trump by promising more hawkishness. It's the Third Way dream come to fruition.

Whos alt is this?

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ICE online student visa suspension update:

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/08/politics/harvard-mit-lawsuit-ice-foreign-students/index.html
https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/press-room/uc-poised-sue-federal-government-over-new-visa-policy-international-students

Harvard, MIT, and UC lawsuits announced

(man during my exchange to Japan like everybody was from UC)

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Suprak the Stud posted...

Whos alt is this?

Assuming you mean me, I usually post on CE not here. Username is a joke because another guy there is named "SocialistGamer".

Ah ok. Thanks for the clarification!

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

it feels insidious to me

I worry these guys are playing a longer game.
They get positive associations with their name now by switching over to the winning team, then four years from now the people who saw how good and smart they were today might be tricked into thinking theyre still good and smart when theyre doing ads to elect whatever classy republican is running in 2024.

Similar feels, mostly because of how hard and how fast they've come to the fore.

Maybe I'm just old, and remember how a new JibJab every year was a fresh and exciting thing and I'm not used to new videos on the daily.

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https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281206354334625793?s=21

Apparently even object permanence is too high a bar for Trump

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Re: Lincoln Project. They're definitely not friends or allies and I'd be extremely wary of them immediately switching targets if Biden wins but in the meantime if they're going to spend time, money, and effort to attack Trump and get in his head as well as target some of the Senate seats that could be flipped then by all means we should let them continue.

Biden has been putting out ads it's just they aren't as troll/memish as the Lincoln Project ones so guess which ones appear in this topic? >_>

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Anyway half an hour away from SCOTUS's rulings on Trump taxes (well a bit more as we wait for the pages to literally run down the scotus steps because for some reason we still do things that way there) so who wants some last minute predix?

Trump has lost these cases (there are 2) at every level on the way here and it's frankly a joke (and concerning) that SCOTUS even took it up at all. I've been bracing for some prime republican fuckery with a joke 5-4 decision to protect him but who knows.

I think between unitary executive shit and Kavanaugh basically being appointed for a moment like this there's at least 2-3 votes for Trump right now.

ah hell let's enjoy optimism in its last fleeting moments here and say 6-3 against him.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281206354334625793?s=21

Apparently even object permanence is too high a bar for Trump

if he's only said it 1/100th times then it's no wonder nobody knows.

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Vance (whether the NYC grand jury can subpoena Trump's financials for a criminal investigation) 7-2 against Trump. Roberts writes the opinion + Squad + Gorsuch + Kavanaugh. Thomas and Alito dissent.

lmao Trump's two picks against him. #1 pick for top 10 anime betrayals of 2020

Will read and post thoughts later but still F5'ing for the ruling in Mazars (whether Congress can demand the records under the law. Or what the meaning of "shall" is.)

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xp1337 posted...

I think between unitary executive shit and Kavanaugh basically being appointed for a moment like this there's at least 2-3 votes for Trump right now.

Even kavanaugh voting against trump in Vance is fucking hilarious

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7-2 for the Congress getting tax records too.

Thank God for some sense of sanity.

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Mazars seems to be more or less a win for Trump. 7-2 (same crews) in that it says the lower courts didn't consider separation of powers concerns and sends it back to them to take that into account.

Which along with my glances at Vance seems to be the theme of the day. SCOTUS is going to let Trump run the clock out here even if Vance was basically a loss since it also sends it back down to the district court where Trump can object more.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

7-2 for the Congress getting tax records too.

Thank God for some sense of sanity.

Not how SCOTUSblog interpreted it nor my reading of the syllabus.

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Oops maybe I misunderstood. I didn't fact check what I was told.

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So if I'm understanding now, both cases are basically saying that while a president isn't above a law, both cases still have to go back to the lower courts which can lead to Trump objecting again and just delaying things until after the election?

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TotallyNotMI posted...

So if I'm understanding now, both cases are basically saying that while a president isn't above a law, both cases still have to go back to the lower courts which can lead to Trump objecting again and just delaying things until after the election?

The Supreme Court almost always sends the case back down to fill in details in light of their opinion. That's what our court system does - higher courts only decide issues of law they are presented with, they don't take over the whole case.

TotallyNotMI posted...

7-2 for the Congress getting tax records too.

Thank God for some sense of sanity.

Other than personal reasons, why would you want the government to be able to force you to give information over to Congress? Isn't that against the usual mantra of not giving away your privacy? I see people complain when apps are info gathering, complain if a device listens on your phone calls, and so on. Yet, now you are for forcing a citizen to hand over information that they might want to keep private.

And, trust me. If you say my usual phrase that I use when I say I am okay with a surveillance state "what's it matter unless you have something to hide" then I am gonna call you a hypocrite.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

So if I'm understanding now, both cases are basically saying that while a president isn't above a law, both cases still have to go back to the lower courts which can lead to Trump objecting again and just delaying things until after the election?

I've skimmed Mazars, haven't gotten to Vance yet but based on what I've read from analysts on Vance while F5'ing is that they rejected the "temporary presidential immunity" BS that Trump was arguing but rather than order that the grand jury's subpoena be enforced immediately, they sent the case back down to the District Court to basically say "okay Trump's argument here is BS. You may continue and he can try another argument if he wants."

Like ultimately SCOTUS is saying of course the subpoena can be enforced the president isn't a king but in such a way that Trump's defense team can keep trying to stall the clock.

As for Mazars: Roberts + Liberals + Gorsuch + Kavanaugh does reject the extremely high standards Trump's defense was arguing the House needed but they also rejected the House's argument that since they're after personal records and that Trump was suing in his personal capacity that it didn't represent a separation of powers issue and the lower courts all accepted that argument for the most part. The District Court didn't fully run with it and consequently didn't give the House the benefit of the doubt it normally would in such cases but SCOTUS is saying they didn't sufficiently argue out the merits of how this affects separations of powers and sent it back down to District Court with instructions that all parties do that.

Alito dissented by saying "I'd sent it back too but imooooooooo the House's case is weak and I'd make the instruction be that the House has to show more."

Thomas dissents by saying "Congress shouldn't be able to issue legislative subpoenas to personal records period."

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The President of the United States should be held to a higher standard than an average citizen, given that his financial dealings can have direct impacts on how the country is governed as a whole. It's the entire reason the emoluments clause exists, though fuck if the GOP-controlled Senate and formerly GOP-controlled Congress gave a shit about that.

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it's funny Trump brags about how the US does so much more testing to show such high numbers but also brags about how limiting testing keeps the numbers down.

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Or for the tl;dr version:

Mazars (Congress): Absolute immunity is bullshit, get the fuck out of here with that nonsense, there might be something to separations of powers idk not enough there go back and figure it out.

Vance (NY Grand Jury): Absolute immunity is bullshit. Continue as you were and see if they can stall until after Novem-I mean have another argument on why a grand jury in a criminal investigation can't enforce subpoenas lol.

Like the takeaway from Vance is that he's gonna lose in the end it's just gonna take awhile. Mazars who knows. The law clearly says "shall furnish" but whatevs. Of some note to keep in mind is that Vance is dealing with subpoenas in relation to a state criminal proceeding. Mazars is Congress issuing legislative subpoenas.

Prior to the cases SCOTUS had found a president must comply with subpoenas to federal criminal proceedings. Today, with Vance, they extended that to "Yeah, they gotta comply with state criminal proceedings too." They shrugged here on legislative subpoenas and want more debate from the parties though still rejected the higher standards the Trump legal defense was asserting here.

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Probably should have seen the rulings coming given this tweet:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281206685395292160?s=21

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Probably should have seen the rulings coming given this tweet:

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281206685395292160?s=21

That tweet could literally be in response to anything, coming from him.

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Inviso posted...

The President of the United States should be held to a higher standard than an average citizen, given that his financial dealings can have direct impacts on how the country is governed as a whole. It's the entire reason the emoluments clause exists, though fuck if the GOP-controlled Senate and formerly GOP-controlled Congress gave a shit about that.

I believe the thought process is that any citizen running for president should be required to disclose their tax returns. Why is that citizen different than any others in that scenario?

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Corrik7 posted...

I believe the thought process is that any citizen running for president should be required to disclose their tax returns. Why is that citizen different than any others in that scenario?

Because they're looking to control our entire country, and personal financial decisions that might impact how they govern in their own favor, rather than for the benefit of the country, should be known about in advance (and the voters should at least be fully informed on potential conflicts of interest). I mean, if you don't want your life scrutinized, then you really shouldn't be going into politics. Or do you think the emoluments clause in the constitution should be abolished and presidents should be allowed to use the immense power and oversight of the office to personally enrich themselves?

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The law Congress is invoking is an old one in the tax codes that states that the Treasury "shall furnish" records if Congress requests them via a subpoena. Like it's an old law that states Congress has the authority to pull tax records if they want them. The law is crystal clear on this but Trump's legal defense went for "absolute immunity" instead.

Hell, 8 of the 9 justices (the 7 + even Alito) have no issue with Congress having the authority to issue legislative subpoenas for someone's personal records. Only Thomas in his dissent rejects that idea in its entirety. We're waaaaay past "should Congress be able to request tax returns" here in both law and the court's ruling. SCOTUS is only waffling in Mazars because the individual in question is POTUS.

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I don't disagree with disclosing stuff. I am asking why your anti-government privacy stances change when it comes to a political target. You say the president isn't above the law but then in the same breath say that a president hopeful should be held to a higher standard. It doesn't seem consistent to me.

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I think you're splitting hairs.

I think congress should be able to access anyone's taxes if there is justification for doing so.

And I think "running for president" is automatic justification. So I wouldn't say having his tax information is holding him to a higher standard than any other person should be held to if they are running for president. If I ran for president I would expect that my tax information is relevant information to my candidacy and I'm just some guy.

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Now presidents should be held to a higher standard in their conduct just in general. If I wanted to go to a bar on a wednesday afternoon I don't think there would be any newspaper articles written about me. But if the President of the Country chooses to spend his time that way, it's a problem and it would cause a stir. And no, it's not illegal, but it displays a lack of judgement and an inefficient use of his time.

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The more power you have over others, the more scrutiny you should be under. Even if that includes giving up certain "rights"

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In a sane world, people would just be smart enough to not vote for a President who chooses to hide his finances, but here we are
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In that same vein, has Biden released his yet? Or waiting until after the official nomination?
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Jakyl25 posted...

In that same vein, has Biden released his yet? Or waiting until after the official nomination?

He's released the last 21 years.

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Anything concerning?
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Mayor of Seoul found dead
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That was in Biden's tax returns??

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xp1337 posted...

He's released the last 21 years.

Republicans: But what is he hiding in the one from 22 years ago???

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Jakyl25 posted...

Anything concerning?

Not that I know of but I'm not exactly qualified for some deep dive.

I know from reporting that Biden started making it rain after he was no longer VP. Mostly in book deals and speaking engagements it seems. If there was something shady I would think it would have been reported more widely.

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TotallyNotMI posted...

Republicans: But what is he hiding in the one from 22 years ago???

I was about to say the same thing! Trump will throw a fit over 22 years ago while fighting to avoid releasing his own, because he's actually hiding something.

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Speaking of Trump throwing a fit

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281236214646034432?s=21

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281236412667432961?s=21

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281250566199541761?s=21

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281250568342769665?s=21

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1281260329247399936?s=21

All in the last 4 hours
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I remember SmartMuffin being (probably rightfully) worried that no one would mourn this girl

https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/celebrities/2020/07/08/tyler-perry-pay-funeral-expenses-girl-shot-atlanta/5402326002/
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I don't think there was anything rightful about it. I saw plenty of talk about it that wasn't right-wing concern trolling.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/mo0nlitruby/status/1280127918451101699

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Berman testimony on Barr (thread):

https://twitter.com/kyledcheney/status/1281273016983437312?s=21

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Trump's Tulsa rally has, predictably, let to an explosion of cases in the area:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/08/us/politics/coronavirus-tulsa-trump-rally.html

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https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1281046119867314177

Killer research there, RNC.

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Biden is a senile old man who can't do anything, but ALSO a mega socialist with diabolical plans to turn the US into the USSR, and eliminate the police so that you and your family are guaranteed to be murdered. But worst of all, in Biden's hellscape, no one will defend the confederate statues from antifa terrorist attacks!

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Don't forget the PRESIDENTIAL HARASSMENT, which, by the way, came by way of Biden's Supreme Court justices.

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https://twitter.com/TBPInvictus/status/1281256803788107776

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