Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 1 - A Moba Mafia of Moderate Mayhem

(+) Yeah! (+)

PoppyTheNinja posted...

i don't like this post.

##Unvote
##Vote: Hbthebattle

Care to elaborate?

I had my own feelings on that post but dismissed them as benign. Curious to see why you don't like Hb's post.

Kirby321 posted...

Care to elaborate?

I had my own feelings on that post but dismissed them as benign. Curious to see why you don't like Hb's post.

it feels a bit like it's chiming in on the sidelines and taking a safe stance on the big argument around han while not actually addressing any of the arguments against him, vaguely shading his accusers while not actually calling out anyone in specific. and the bit about "trying to get rid of a strong player D1" doesn't feel like a real thought

i went back and reread and didn't care for hb's other posts either so i am comfy with that vote for now

HanOfTheNekos posted...

As for Red, his first page of posts this game were telling Sultan that he shouldn't host if he states he won't put Millers in his games. That is posting to get posts in the topic, but not talking about the actual game going on. Is that clear enough for you?

He had posts on spiciness. Thoughts on those?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

but just in painting them in the worst light you can.

I am not the only one with issues with your postings so far Han. The bad light was created all on your own.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I am going to put this simply one more time before I try to focus on work here:
I recall Lea buddying me. This may be based on games when we're both Town. This may be based on games where only she is playing as Town and I'm observing. This may be based on games where neither of us are playing. But either way, I do recall (maybe incorrectly so!) that as Town/Town, we are on the same page. This is what I recall. Either way, there is no gotcha to be had here. Sometimes, honesty is imperfect. If you expect me to list 10 examples of games where Lea and I are Town/Town and 10 where we're not, then you're silly.

"I remember a thing, it may be wrong and not actually a thing but as I recall its real and based on that thing, that might not be a thing, Lea is not looking good right now for voting for me."

>_>

And no Han, i do not expect 20 examples. I expect a better explanation on your experience together though. You are better than this. Your response is garbage and i now truly believe you have played a poor scum game thus far.

##vote: Han

PoppyTheNinja posted...

it feels a bit like it's chiming in on the sidelines and taking a safe stance on the big argument around han while not actually addressing any of the arguments against him, vaguely shading his accusers while not actually calling out anyone in specific. and the bit about "trying to get rid of a strong player D1" doesn't feel like a real thought

i went back and reread and didn't care for hb's other posts either so i am comfy with that vote for now

We are of the same mind, then.

My first instinct was to ask Hb if he thought Han was town, and if so, why. I dismissed the thought since you could suspect on a conspiracy on somebody without necessarily believing they are town, but perhaps I should've pressed it after all.

Obellisk posted...

"I remember a thing, it may be wrong and not actually a thing but as I recall its real and based on that thing, that might not be a thing, Lea is not looking good right now for voting for me."

Very similar to Han's thoughts on me for the record minus "not looking good for voting for me" (it's coming I'm sure)

PoppyTheNinja posted...

it feels a bit like it's chiming in on the sidelines and taking a safe stance on the big argument around han while not actually addressing any of the arguments against him, vaguely shading his accusers while not actually calling out anyone in specific.

did... did you miss the parts where I've been calling out inconsistencies in Kirby's logic
personally I thought it was pretty clear who I was accusing there

Lopen posted...

Very similar to Han's thoughts on me for the record minus "not looking good for voting for me" (it's coming I'm sure)

Hey he already preempted my vote with i'm either scum or don't really care to play the game, so...

Kirby321 posted...

My first instinct was to ask Hb if he thought Han was town, and if so, why. I dismissed the thought since you could suspect on a conspiracy on somebody without necessarily believing they are town, but perhaps I should've pressed it after all.

My thoughts on him are mostly neutral-leaning-positive, reading to me as someone who is playing somewhat less aggressively after his last game, which checks out. He's still generating content and I haven't seen any egregious logic errors other than the three minutes thing.

I do not like some of the people on his train: specifically you, and now Sbell, who has also rubbed me the wrong way somewhat.

Lopen posted...

Very similar to Han's thoughts on me for the record minus "not looking good for voting for me" (it's coming I'm sure)

Obellisk posted...

Hey he already preempted my vote with i'm either scum or don't really care to play the game, so...

Nah, I think as Scum you find this to be putting you too much in the frontline for pushing a mislynch that you don't get so thirsty for it. I think, if you were Scum, then allusions to this being sort of our common pissing-match antics would be enough for you to take that as an excuse to back down.

Lopen posted...

He had posts on spiciness. Thoughts on those?

Equally as pointless. If I wanted to extrapolate, I could say that there's a chance Kirby was just countered by Lea, and that Red is trying to do damage control, but I don't really think Red as Town would have a different opinion of it meaning anything.

PoppyTheNinja posted...

and the bit about "trying to get rid of a strong player D1" doesn't feel like a real thought

i went back and reread and didn't care for hb's other posts either so i am comfy with that vote for now

If I can put this a little in context, people tend to think of me as one of the better players (at least as Town).
In a recent game where I named two Scum with my first post of the game, I got mislynched D1 and Town proceeded to lose. Other than that, there was a game Scum fakeclaim suicided to get me mislynched, and Scum won that. So with history in mind, taking me out is like, the literal best strategy for Scum.

This is not to convince you not to keep looking at Hb or anything. I love the content and it feels like you, as a new player to us, are pushing angles that might not happen otherwise. I just want to make context a little more clear in that area.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Equally as pointless. If I wanted to extrapolate, I could say that there's a chance Kirby was just countered by Lea, and that Red is trying to do damage control, but I don't really think Red as Town would have a different opinion of it meaning anything.

You don't think it is interesting with respect to hb? To me it reads as an indirect doubt of hb's sincerity. It's interesting you think it's just pointless and further completely ignore any link of spiciness to hb as someone who took interest in red.

I mean, if anything paints you in a Scummy light Lopen, it's consistently using the word "interesting" to describe actions. That's typically how Scum talk, because they don't want to outright call Town members Scum, but prefer to paint the actions in a certain way.

And off the top of my head, I do not recall Hb's involvement with whatever Red said early in the topic.

I may be repressing stuff, HB
But what did Han do that made him instant town in Baseball Mafia?

Hbthebattle posted...

did... did you miss the parts where I've been calling out inconsistencies in Kirby's logic
personally I thought it was pretty clear who I was accusing there

the only thing i found you calling out from kirby was him forgetting that the item shop exists while having an item, which isn't exactly compelling to me

otherwise no you're not really getting into anything specific about his han vote that's actually bad

htaeD posted...

I may be repressing stuff, HB
But what did Han do that made him instant town in Baseball Mafia?

The way he acted in early baseball was generating content and activity. It's hard to fully express in words, but I just could see instantly that he was town. I don't think I've had that same feeling here, but I still have mostly liked his content and have no reason to think he's scummy.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

If I can put this a little in context, people tend to think of me as one of the better players (at least as Town).
In a recent game where I named two Scum with my first post of the game, I got mislynched D1 and Town proceeded to lose. Other than that, there was a game Scum fakeclaim suicided to get me mislynched, and Scum won that. So with history in mind, taking me out is like, the literal best strategy for Scum.

This is not to convince you not to keep looking at Hb or anything. I love the content and it feels like you, as a new player to us, are pushing angles that might not happen otherwise. I just want to make context a little more clear in that area.

noted on the context i'm just not seeing the reasoning/approach from hb as a town one

HanOfTheNekos posted...

In a recent game where I named two Scum with my first post of the game, I got mislynched D1 and Town proceeded to lose.

Man, we had the game solved without needing your help. We only lost because some people decided to not follow the town gameplan on the final day despite never saying anything about it before.

Ben had that game solved and we all rallied behind him and his plan until he died. You were very much a non-factor in that game. Being correct means shit if you fail to convince everyone else about your convictions.

You had an awesome presence in Baseball Musical Mafia, but you're otherwise giving yourself way too much credit.

But that's all irrelevant to this game anyway. You pulled this same "scum's best interest is killing me" card back in the Kingmaker game, and you were scum there, too.

*sigh* I'll put away the hatorade now. Sorry, that generalization regarding that specific game just really irked me.

I was a non-factor that game because I allowed myself to be mislynched, yes.

If I had survived and if people listened to me, Town also would have won.

I also believe you guys had the game in the bag and should have won anyway.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

it's consistently using the word "interesting" to describe actions. That's typically how Scum talk, because they don't want to outright call Town members Scum, but prefer to paint the actions in a certain way.

And off the top of my head, I do not recall Hb's involvement with whatever Red said early in the topic.

Hb is literally what provoked the commentary on spicy by calling the game spicy. Weird you remember that red said that but not why he said it.

Do you think I'm avoiding calling players scum this game?

Do you think I'm trying to call red scum? Do you think I'm trying to call hb scum?

PoppyTheNinja posted...

otherwise no you're not really getting into anything specific about his han vote that's actually bad

Alright. Part of it is how rapid he jumped perspective.
Kirby321 posted...

Meh, I always think Han is scum. I'm never able to follow his logic at all. Like, I'm not sure what solid arguments Lopen has made this game at all.

Kirby321 posted...

The thing that makes me hesitate on Han is because he makes foolish decisions on D1 sometimes. Like trying to push a lynch on townie Ben during the final hour of the day back in Nickelodeon Mafia, which is the game he cites in this post:

Kirby321 posted...

I thought Han was known for Hangut. I'm surprised he hasn't invoked that yet on anybody.

You know... I think I've only played with Han twice, and in both games, I contributed to his lynch. My accuracy rate is about 50%, so... screw it. It's time to turn the pressure up.

##Unvote
##Vote: Han

These were his three posts in a row before/during the vote, and you can notably see drastic perspective flips. He goes from thinking Han's D1 town actions can be foolish to then voting him because he hasn't been doing said "foolish" D1 actions. Unlike Han's "three minutes", I don't see a logical route for mindset to change like this.

Hbthebattle posted...

Unlike Han's "three minutes", I don't see a logical route for mindset to change like this.

So to put it on the record you think Han calling me scared then calling me town is logical.

I don't know why you quote three minutes either. It literally was three minutes. That is not hyperbole.

Lopen posted...

So to put it on the record you think Han calling me scared then calling me town is logical.

I'm saying I can see a more logical thought process for Han getting there than I can for Kirby. There's a difference.

The fact that it is not hyperbole is vitally important for the record

In the time it took to type up and gather thoughts between the posts, functionally the time between the posts may as well be 0. There is no logical progression you can make with 3 minutes of a thought to simmer. He walked it back and said he was doing it to test reactions-- what reactions can you test in 3 minutes?

Anyone else getting the vibe Ulti is reading but bot reading the game?

UltimaterializerX posted...

Im on page 3 at lunch. I think we caught one boys. Well, Lea caught one, but still!

##Unvote
##Vote: Kirby

First you say you claimed miller to bait a scum shot, then you claimed a modifier after being suspected. Those two lines of thinking dont add up to a town perspective.

I suppose he was behind but this seems weird

Lopen posted...

Hb is literally what provoked the commentary on spicy by calling the game spicy. Weird you remember that red said that but not why he said it.

Don't you mean "interesting"? And I did an ISO for Red posts, and iirc, I don't think he quoted Hb in the posts that popped up.

Do you think I'm avoiding calling players scum this game?

Do you think I'm trying to call red scum? Do you think I'm trying to call hb scum?

It doesn't appear to me that you are looking much beyond me at the current moment at all.

Lopen posted...

The fact that it is not hyperbole is vitally important for the record

In the time it took to type up and gather thoughts between the posts, functionally the time between the posts may as well be 0. There is no logical progression you can make with 3 minutes of a thought to simmer. He walked it back and said he was doing it to test reactions-- what reactions can you test in 3 minutes?

You are literally misrepresenting this situation.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Anyone else getting the vibe Ulti is reading but bot reading the game?

I don't get the vibe he's reading the game.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I don't get the vibe he's reading the game.

Enough to realize Lea had a vote on Kirby at one point i guess

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Anyone else getting the vibe Ulti is reading but bot reading the game?

Yes its been pointed out. So watch out in case Ulti starts to say you arent reading the game as well, heh.

Also Ulti's been on all 3 possible sides of the miller discussion by now. Impressive.

##Vote:Ulti

think Ulti needs to catch up and fix his contradiction for sure.

This vote doesn't mean I think he is nessisarily scum but definitely suspect

Eh, I wouldnt go that far myself.
Ulti not reading is not out of his ordinary.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

You are literally misrepresenting this situation.

How so. 3 minutes is 3 minutes. Look at the timestamps. 3 minutes 40 seconds or something-- we can round to 4 if you want.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Don't you mean "interesting"? And I did an ISO for Red posts, and iirc, I don't think he quoted Hb in the posts that popped up.

You keep making fun of me for using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

And now you're saying you did an ISO for Red and did no contextual reading of anything he said? What is even the point of the ISO (that you didn't actually do) then?

htaeD posted...

Eh, I wouldnt go that far myself.
Ulti not reading is not out of his ordinary.

Thats fairnbut should we push him to actually read the game? Its not pro town to not actually read

Hence me suggesting he read up.

Of course, I dont wield my vote as strongly as others so dont let me stop you if you genuinely feel that way.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

But Hb, I said Lopen was "scared", then I determined later that based on his reaction to that post among others that I'm leaning Town on him. If that's not Scum, what could it be???

Forgive me if I missed something but...
what reaction?

Lopen posted...

How so. 3 minutes is 3 minutes. Look at the timestamps. 3 minutes 40 seconds or something-- we can round to 4 if you want.

You keep making fun of me for using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

And now you're saying you did an ISO for Red and did no contextual reading of anything he said? What is even the point of the ISO (that you didn't actually do) then?

I ctrl-f'd for his name to specifically look at posts where Red talked about "spiciness". Sorry I wasn't more specific.

htaeD posted...

Forgive me if I missed something but...
what reaction?

Lopen has made a lot of posts about me.

That is the reaction.

Keep in mind red's post about spiciness is directly after hb's comment that the day is spicy. You would practically need to be willfully trying to ignore hb's involvement in the conversation due to the size of screens to not know hb is involved

I say it's an interesting post because it's directly putting doubt on a thing another player said-- if I was doing an iso on red, I'd want to know what he said and who he said it to. It's in fact the most interesting thing red has said all game in my opinion.

Hbthebattle posted...

Alright. Part of it is how rapid he jumped perspective.

These were his three posts in a row before/during the vote, and you can notably see drastic perspective flips. He goes from thinking Han's D1 town actions can be foolish to then voting him because he hasn't been doing said "foolish" D1 actions. Unlike Han's "three minutes", I don't see a logical route for mindset to change like this.

i agree with HB here in thinking there might be something here. best i can give to kirby is like an "alright fuck it, i'll just send it on Han" where he was feeling that way all along but didn't know whether to pull the trigger or not until the end. HOWEVER

Kirby321 posted...

I thought Han was known for Hangut. I'm surprised he hasn't invoked that yet on anybody.

this is like so so so so so fake (or just very bad) reasoning to vote someone. it's been like 14ish hours and he's supposed to have identified at least one scum 100% by now? Isn't that a ridiculously unfair standard to hold Han to? at least give the man the benefit of a full 48 hour day!

more thoughts on other stuff coming shortly

Someone answer this question for me. Has Kirby claimed?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Lopen has made a lot of posts about me.

That is the reaction.

I just dont know why you'd say 'that post' when Lopen didnt react to that one directly until after you called him town

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Lopen has made a lot of posts about me.

That is the reaction.

I made one post between when you said I was scared and when you said I was town.

Is one a lot? I don't know!

Corrik7 posted...

Someone answer this question for me. Has Kirby claimed?

Yes and no... and no

Corrik7 posted...

Someone answer this question for me. Has Kirby claimed?

He has claimed "miller that has a different ability of some sort"

htaeD posted...

Yes and no... and no

He claimed or he didn't. Which one.

Kirby, are you here now?

Lopen posted...

(bad mafia play)

This is where I'm drawing the line with you, Lopen. Responding to you is no longer generating any worthwhile content, and frankly, you're boring me. I have been reading you as Town, but your insistence here is reminding me more of that Kingmaker game where you caused Crescent to fuck off due to your insistence, and if I'm coming around to starting to think you're Scummy, it's probably because I'm too closely attached to the situation.

You CAN'T make an argument by stating how somebody "should" have played like this. It's the literal reason Andy asked for a replace then plum got mislynched some games ago. It is so blatantly off-the-wall bad play. I ctrl-F'd leafeon13n. I looked for posts where he said something about "spiciness". I did not read any posts around it. Trying to pretend like that is impossible is bad. It's unintelligent.

htaeD posted...

I just dont know why you'd say 'that post' when Lopen didnt react to that one directly until after you called him town

Death, I can assure you, I am speaking much more in generalizations than I am specifically.
I had been talking with Lopen for a bit, and given the full scope of the conversation, I was leaning on him being Town. Calling him "scared" (you might note that "scared" and "scum" are different words - Lopen is having trouble with that) was bluster. It was cheekiness. It was a part of the whole. I did not use that post *specifically* and *only* to arrive at the conclusion I did.

Y'all are missing the forest for the trees. And it'd be fair to say, given most of the paper-thin attacks made to me today, I am missing the trees for the forest.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


i buy this explanation from Lea 100%. it sounds authentic and matches up with my perception of her play in past games. previously i was quite surprised she was making it a point to go after Han here (which he definitely took issue with) but this satisfies my curiosity, so have at it.

I also think Town (Miller) Ninja, while normally a completely useless role, is reasonable enough with item gameplay, though it theoretically implies some kind of weak scum investigative role, which is perhaps the strangest thing about it

Anyway, at this point, Lopen's insistence is getting under my skin, so I'm going to disconnect from him because I don't think this yields anything more and letting emotion dictate my thoughts is more likely to muddy them.

Han it frustrates me that I cant seem to get more of a read on you besides 'yeah maybe Han just does think like that'.
Because I would never call someone scared unless I think they are scum.
...
Then again I dont think I called many people scared period.