Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 399: Teardrops on My Qatar

(+) Yeah! (+)

It is, but unfortunately I fully expect it to be killed in the Senate because this is subject to filibuster. I doubt there are 10 GOP Senators who sign onto this if they could only find 3 in the House.

Yeah, this is clearly kabuki theater to force through the rail deal while painting the republicans as the killed sick leave

Yea it's all to make Republicans look bad. Which is good because Republicans are really bad when it comes to labor practices.

hockeydude15 posted...

Yea it's all to make Republicans look bad. Which is good because Republicans are really bad when it comes to labor practices.

Yes

But lets be honest here this is democrats pushing through the rail deal which everyone was against last week

I give them points for gamesmanship on this one. We even had people in this topic say the vote was good!

I mean, the honest take is that this is going to be Republicans voting down sick leave because... ??? (Evil? Greed?)

Should the Democrats not try to advance policy they think is right because the GOP can kill it through a procedural mistake?

Thorn posted...

I mean, the honest take is that this is going to be Republicans voting down sick leave because... ??? (Evil? Greed?)

Should the Democrats not try to advance policy they think is right because the GOP can kill it through a procedural mistake?

This is why its such good gamesmanship

Because if you think Democrats should support labor no matter what the correct move would be to bundle the vote together and if Republicans vote it down then the rail workers go on strike

But they dont, but want people to think they do

Do have a question though, if the deal is forced through what exactly is stopping the rail workers from striking anyways if the paid leave gets voted down?

masterplum posted...

This is why its such good gamesmanship

Because if you think Democrats should support labor no matter what the correct move would be to bundle the vote together and if Republicans vote it down then the rail workers go on strike

But they dont, but want people to think they do

Oh lord. You realize that I am the one who outlined how the House plan was likely going to result in this very outcome - the unmodified deal passes while the paid sick leave part of the package ends up dying somewhere along the line ending in the result of the unmodified deal standing?

I'm pointing out that you're very intentionally picking the framing that reflects most poorly on the Democrats while ignoring and/or absolving the Republicans as if they are simply a force of nature and not willingly and gleefully making the choices to act and vote the way they are.

Hell, if anything, I'd argue my frame is more honest than yours simply because you are assigning motive and intent on the Democrats' part as doing this dishonestly whereas I simply framed it as the Republicans voting down the policy (and parenthetically suggesting possibilities somewhat sarcastically).

Supposing we did it your way and they simply passed a single package with the paid sick leave so it was either vote for that or there's no deal - the blame would end up falling on Biden and labor and everyone fucking knows it. This isn't the first time we've seen a major strike and how people reacted. Take Reagan and the air traffic controllers for example. I could just as easily frame this as the GOP voting for a railway crisis because it would politically damage the Democrats. I'm not because I don't know where that ranks on their list of reasons for doing the wrong thing here. But your frame is basically the equivalent from the other side and I guess I'm wondering why?

hockeydude15 posted...

Do have a question though, if the deal is forced through what exactly is stopping the rail workers from striking anyways if the paid leave gets voted down?

Nothing.

But then I think it could get a lot messier. Again, think Reagan and the air traffic controllers.

Thorn posted...

Supposing we did it your way and they simply passed a single package with the paid sick leave so it was either vote for that or there's no deal - the blame would end up falling on Biden and labor and everyone f***ing knows it

Because it does?

Sure Republicans are more to blame, but if you are a leftist you have to realize the D's are also against you here.

This bending over backwards to defend the Democrat party is hilarious. It's ok for them to be a Center-left party instead of a far left party.

hockeydude15 posted...

Do have a question though, if the deal is forced through what exactly is stopping the rail workers from striking anyways if the paid leave gets voted down?

The owners would be free to punish them for striking. The simplest thing to do would be to just fire anyone who strikes, but then the question is where will they find new workers.

hockeydude15 posted...

Yea it's all to make Republicans look bad. Which is good because Republicans are really bad when it comes to labor practices.

"We voted it down because government shouldn't be directly dictating how private businesses pay their workers and because we believe sick pay should be for all Americans, not just 110k of them."

Dems look bad then

Corrik7 posted...

"We voted it down because government shouldn't be directly dictating how private businesses pay their workers and because we believe sick pay should be for all Americans, not just 110k of them."

Dems look bad then

Eh,

I mean republicans dont need to try that hard. They could just yell economy and beat their chest and everyone would cheer

masterplum posted...

Eh,

I mean republicans dont need to try that hard. They could just yell economy and beat their chest and everyone would cheer

This is limited to one sector of workers 110k of them that are upper middle class.

It's so easy to frame as against the lower class or the worker in general.

Not a win at all for democrats. Just a distraction.

Corrik7 posted...

"We voted it down because government shouldn't be directly dictating how private businesses pay their workers and because we believe sick pay should be for all Americans, not just 110k of them."

Dems look bad then

Rails shouldnt be controlled by private companies tbh

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Rails shouldnt be controlled by private companies tbh

I'd argue also that separate unions shouldn't be allowed to strike for a different union not accepting a contract somewhere else.

Corrik7 posted...

I'd argue also that separate unions shouldn't be allowed to strike for a different union not accepting a contract somewhere else.

This is literally the point of labor solidarity lmao

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

This is literally the point of labor solidarity lmao

It's not negotiating in good faith if you have a contract agreed to and then strike because someone somewhere else decided to strike. It means your negotiations mean relatively nothing.

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

This is literally the point of labor solidarity lmao

Yeah Corrik, you can be anti union and that is an argument against unions.

But that is indeed the entire point

masterplum posted...

Yeah Corrik, you can be anti union and that is an argument against unions.

But that is indeed the entire point

It would be like us striking cuz US Steel didn't get the contract they wanted. Unless these people all work for the same railroad.

Corrik7 posted...

It would be like us striking cuz US Steel didn't get the contract they wanted. Unless these people all work for the same railroad.

Yes

The entire idea of collective bargaining is you cant bargain with individuals

Corrik7 posted...

It would be like us striking cuz US Steel didn't get the contract they wanted. Unless these people all work for the same railroad.

That's called a general strike, they're fairly common but not in the US for some strange reason

HeroDelTiempo17 posted...

That's called a general strike, they're fairly common but not in the US for some strange reason

I'm under the impression this is 12 unions and 9 agreed and 3 separate unions didn't so all 12 unions are striking across the country. Is this all one railroad company or 12 different ones?

Would like to point out that railroad workers are exempt from paying into Social Security. They have their own pension system which is almost certainly much better.

red_sox_777 posted...

Would like to point out that railroad workers are exempt from paying into Social Security. They have their own pension system which is almost certainly much better.

Why wouldn't they have to pay in to social security? Like how the fuck does that work.

masterplum posted...

if you are a leftist you have to realize the D's are also against you

yea

Corrik7 posted...

Why wouldn't they have to pay in to social security? Like how the fuck does that work.

Railroads were a big thing back when FDR and co. created social security. They created a separate pension system just for railroad employees. Since social security was supposed to be a pension system rather than just an extra tax, railroad employees pay into the railroad pension system rather than social security and don't have to pay into both.

AriaOfBolo posted...

yea

The true revolutionary leftist position is that we prefer the Dems in power because theyre usually the more inept party and thus easier to overthrow when the time comes

um guys i think you all forgot the fact that the dems are all socialist transgender commies

JFC

https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1598377219352678400?s=21

How long until the theory becomes that Kanye has been a secret liberal the entire time and has thrown his credibility and his life away to make the likes of Donald Trump and Alex Jones look bad by doing and saying things beyond the pale even for the likes of them?

https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/1597438925865615360?t=Owm_r648FUrrTqfF7uN-Vw&s=19

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1598404023639748608

red_sox_777 posted...

Railroads were a big thing back when FDR and co. created social security. They created a separate pension system just for railroad employees. Since social security was supposed to be a pension system rather than just an extra tax, railroad employees pay into the railroad pension system rather than social security and don't have to pay into both.

This still doesn't make sense to me. If they work 30 years in the railroad industry and 20 years elsewhere, how does that break down? Social security draws your top 35 working years to give you its payment.

I have my own pension system? I still pay into social security?

...as it was foretold?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/1/6/2/AARPAeAAD8PK.jpg

https://twitter.com/joshuaphilll/status/1598413724536434688?s=46&t=k5TATQLIwd1btYHZ3zWipA

https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1598415275564888064

Senate GOP filibusters and kills paid sick leave for railway workers. Vote was 52-43.

Dems: 46-1 (3 Not Present)
GOP: 6-42 (2 Not Present)

GOP Yes: Braun, Cruz, Graham, Hawley, Kennedy, Rubio
Dem No: Manchin.

Not there: Booker, Burr, Hyde-Smith, Murphy, and Warnock

~~~

Deal as written passed 80-15. Roll call info not up so I can't give the stats on that yet.

Thorn posted...

Dem No: Just Manchin.

Aren't blue dog dems supposed to be pro-labor? Weird how Manchin is still a conservative shill even on issues he's supposed to be better than average on.

idk what his reasoning here is nor do i particularly care to find out

Am I going to get on my without Joe Manchin not a single court appointee would have passed for Joe Biden soap box again

if you want. that just presents us an easier target to throw rocks at

masterplum posted...

Am I going to get on my without Joe Manchin not a single court appointee would have passed for Joe Biden soap box again

If you feel the need to do that every time somebody criticizes a bad vote of his even once, I think you've got some problems to work out.

HashtagSEP posted...

If you feel the need to do that every time somebody criticizes a bad vote of his even once, I think you've got some problems to work out.

Because people who criticize him are idiots

I would argue he is in fact the best Democrat senator. His voting record above replacement value is off the chart

Sinema on the other hand should get primaried

You hear that, guys. plum straight up called you idiots. get'im.

one of those tweets I had to double-check is real because how fucking stupid would you have to be

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1598429871239208972

yes real, the guy going on tirades about corrupt democrats and woke mind virus is publicly turning the other cheek to nazi arc kanye

Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema for President and Vice President!

Grimlyn posted...

one of those tweets I had to double-check is real because how fucking stupid would you have to be

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPHilll/status/1598429871239208972

yes real, the guy going on tirades about corrupt democrats and woke mind virus is publicly turning the other cheek to nazi arc kanye

Would be fun to hear the ad executive meetings where he justifies this on the same day he is banning the accounts of people from media matters and economists for the crime of... shining sunlight on right wing media and making fun of him as far as anyone can tell.

i'm lying it wouldn't be fun at all but hopefully it continues the exodus of ad buyers

Edit: Oh wait, I'm hearing from people who were liveblogging that shitshow that it was Alex Jones who tweeted that using Kanye's phone? (also reading through the liveblogs of this are unreal)
Edit 2: Er, the tweet photographed in the tweet, that is.

Anyway, Senate website finally gave the roll call info on the forcing of the original deal. 80-15 (1 Present, 4 Not Voting)

Booker was here (and a yes) on this vote despite not being a vote before. Otherwise, same Senators who were there for the last vote are the ones here.

No Votes were 10 GOP, 5 Dems (including Sanders).

Dem No: Gillibrand, Hickenlooper, Merkley, Sanders, Warren
GOP No: Collins, Cotton, Cruz, Hagerty, Hawley, Rubio, Scott [Florida], Scott [South Carolina], Sullivan, Toomey
Present: Paul

So those 5 Dems + Cruz, Hawley, and Rubio are the only ones to vote yes on the paid sick leave and then voted against the forcing of the unmodified deal on the workers.

Not sure of the thinking on the other 7 Republicans who voted against both because that's a bit of an unusual grouping.

masterplum posted...

Because people who criticize him are idiots

I would argue he is in fact the best Democrat senator. His voting record above replacement value is off the chart

Sounds more like he is the best at everything besides being a Democrat.