Board 8 > Eff 2021 Mafia: Topic 9 - The Year Not Even Betty White Could Escape

(+) Yeah! (+)

Chaeix posted...

I just iso'd myself in that topic to see if I could reply but uh I think you have the wrong topic

Topic 4 my bad

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Topic 4 my bad

do you mean this, where i got annoyed after Ben revealed he was lying again?

Chaeix posted...

can we lynch both of them?

the fact that neither ben or isquen has been remotely forthcoming about a single goddamn thing all day is really starting to grind my gears

like did we just sit here talking about isquen and how he may have lied, when you apparently knew for a fact that he had lied?

Yeah idk what I was referencing maybe it was about the Fireproof I dont know im half asleep. May have to look for it when I'm more awake. It w a s like playing into about believing Ben and your reasoning for Voting Isquen over Ben or Scare.

Chaeix posted...

it's okay to treat me like an idiot because i'm probably being one, but indulge me

I don't really get his perspective on us either. Why he thinks if I was neighbors I'd be so convinced of Lea thst I just decided to say masons.

Or why if we're neighbors it's Lea tricking me and not the opposite.

Probably because he picked to be scum so his logic here doesn't have to make sense. I don't believe I could have been an option in his PM, so he's lying about something already.

Chaeix posted...

it's okay to treat me like an idiot because i'm probably being one, but indulge me

I don't think they are actually masons. I think they are actually neighbors that feel confident about one another that they are saying they are masons to represent being confirmed town to make the game easier on the rest of the game to find scum. Masons doesn't fit as well as neighbors.

As far as their alignment, MIs stuff about the pms is stuff that couldn't have been made up to match mine that way, thus that stuff is at least saying MI is not lying as far as having a role of this type. If there is a lie it is in the details. Scum lying about being a Mason is probably somehow slightly less likely here normally than town lying about it, except for the fact as I said day 1 that MI and Lea tend to just lay back and be friendly and try to win as scum with hero claims.

The fact I said that day 1 and they literally are both combined at the hip here with this claim is frankly just fucking ironic. That said, I don't think this is likely a hero claim due to how much details I can corroborate from my own role, though to be fair if they are scum with this role, they may not have expected another role so similar.

The initial claim was outright shock to me because how the fuck does this role be here with mine. The details MI provided was like wtf this has to be at least someway legit.

Then I started puzzling together. Zero protection claims. Zero investigation claims. Mostly vanilla have flipped I believe. A weakened combined extra shot/modifier for scum. A day vig who had to call the shot beforehand and choose to lose or let loose. Bcts role.

I mean, if this is low power as I am starting to suspect, this becomes more possible. It fits intrinsically better if they are neighbors than masons. Especially if BCT/Suprak slots are both town.

It doesn't matter alignment wise. I had Lea likely town and MI likelier to be town than scum. If this game starts unexpectedly tossing out power claims left and right then this would need to be reevaluated.

The only claims we have so far is Changs supposed power. Ben's supposed Fireproof which again is a not action claim. A supposed roleblock onto Chang. And whatever made me get a message that I was visited last night.

The initial reaction to the role though was like wtf you are full of shit though because of my role and BCT. The details corroborate too much though from what I personally know from my role.

Corrik7 posted...

though to be fair if they are scum with this role, they may not have expected another role so similar.

if they're scum with this role, what would they be?

so far their only power is to communicate with each other, which uh, ya know

and another recruitment power wouldn't make sense with your role

Chaeix posted...

if they're scum with this role, what would they be?

so far their only power is to communicate with each other, which uh, ya know

and another recruitment power wouldn't make sense with your role

The most obvious answer would be that they are neighbors and one of the 2 is scum.

If they are both scum, I am honestly not sure how with the details MI has regarding what he said. It would I guess require him having this role and it not working the way he said. For example, maybe cuz I chose Town he had to choose the antithesis. He picked a scum partner and not a Mason or anything of that sort. The scum partner is whatever and not even a neighbor or Mason or anything but an entirely different role.

That said, that's a super dangerous hero claim with so much more ability to blow up than have upside that it seems unlikely right now. I understand most killing roles are probably dead, neither seems likely to be lynched, and if scum, they won't get shot at night. That said, honestly, at the very worst that is down the line.

My apologies again. Christmas time, relatives I haven't seen in a whilen etc etc. Cant do much right now either.

That said I kinda lost the thread about JC, except that I dont know why he's being up for lynch today before people like Ben, Plum or Sbell.

htaeD posted...

My apologies again. Christmas time, relatives I haven't seen in a whilen etc etc. Cant do much right now either.

That said I kinda lost the thread about JC, except that I dont know why he's being up for lynch today before people like Ben, Plum or Sbell.

Don't think he was ever up for lynch just looking at other members

Corrik, if we have very few investigative roles that would make them being neighbors horrifically unbalanced. The scum one could waltz to end game

##Vote: Corrik

okay here is where my head is at.

Corrik has to have a role similar to what he described. Like he said we have too many similarities in the text.

However. Mine very clearly says no roles other than mine have been assigned yet. So I think I had to get mine first, confirmed me and Lea as town, then Corrik got his.

Meaning I couldn't be on his list. And if he's lying about that, he's lying about other stuff. Like picking town. Maybe he's an exact mirror of mine and only could pick someone to be scum.

It's extremely convenient that he picked Lopen as confirmed town who died D1 and as found, Corrik didn't say anything nice about Lopen this game so the thought that he actually picked him to be confirmed town isn't believable to me.

I'm trying to wrap my head around these claims and mechanics decribed mostly because I don't see the scum equity in either claim. Not being able to see that has not been a perfect strategy so far in this game, but it's still worth considering.

Corrik did say he didn't get his actual role until the game had begun. Can that coexist with with MI being told no roles had been assigned yet? Not taking a stance as much as I just want to walk through if it's possible. Corrik gets his initial message, chooses Lopen but is given no role. MI is then given mason recruiter specifically as the actual first role and chooses Lea.

Here's another thought.

Assume Corrik is telling the truth about everything. If he was NK N1, wouldn't he want us to know who he picked? Especially after Lopen died already and there would be no info to be had after seeing his PM?

Yet his reaction to Lopen dying was:

Net positive for town. Not power and always implodes town with conspiracy theories. Let's go! Too bad he was hella town though.

Would anyone read that in hindsight and go "Oh Corrik picked Lopen"?

Town Corrik would have placed breadcrumbs so we would know. "Too bad I knew he was town" or something more blatant.

Hm, in the recent Dota 2 mafia, Corrik died n1 as a hider variant that was supposed to find 3rd party but would die behind mafia (ironically hid behind the wrong 3rd party) and a lot of that game was spent on figuring out where he'd hide from supposed "Corrik would have placed breadscumbs" and not only were they not clear, he didn't give any IIRC. Though I guess it's different because you're possibly getting shot even as hider.

Anyway, before considering such, I'd like to walk through what I said before. A big difference in your roles not being able to coexist exactly as described or just unlikely to.

slept on it.

don't like corriks claims. feels convoluted and seems like MIs claim was more concise and corrik has to keep adjusting things he said when MI would respond.

##vote: corrik

other also been screaming from the hilltops that I have to be town... sounds a little like he knows I am and was hoping for my mislynch so he could say told you so

TotallyNotMI posted...

Here's another thought.

Assume Corrik is telling the truth about everything. If he was NK N1, wouldn't he want us to know who he picked? Especially after Lopen died already and there would be no info to be had after seeing his PM?

Yet his reaction to Lopen dying was:

Would anyone read that in hindsight and go "Oh Corrik picked Lopen"?

Town Corrik would have placed breadcrumbs so we would know. "Too bad I knew he was town" or something more blatant.

Nice catch. No way anyone would say that over confirmed town.

##Unvote
##Vote:Corrik

Yeah im not jumping in this ine let's just kill Ben guys

##unvote
##vote:Ben

Can we not?

So let's say Corrik is scum as makes the Lopen part up right now. How does BCT then stand if Lea and MI are indeed town masons? Corrik saying he picked BCT as town would have looked way better breadcrumbed so if Corrik is scum and making this lie and BCT was not on Corrik's team, why doesn't he say BCT?

ctesjbuvf posted...

So let's say Corrik is scum as makes the Lopen part up right now. How does BCT then stand if Lea and MI are indeed town masons? Corrik saying he picked BCT as town would have looked way better breadcrumbed so if Corrik is scum and making this lie and BCT was not on Corrik's team, why doesn't he say BCT?

BCT probably is on scum Corrik's team so Corrik can't say him. If he did and BCT flips scum, he's dead.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I'm trying to wrap my head around these claims and mechanics decribed mostly because I don't see the scum equity in either claim. Not being able to see that has not been a perfect strategy so far in this game, but it's still worth considering.

Corrik did say he didn't get his actual role until the game had begun. Can that coexist with with MI being told no roles had been assigned yet? Not taking a stance as much as I just want to walk through if it's possible. Corrik gets his initial message, chooses Lopen but is given no role. MI is then given mason recruiter specifically as the actual first role and chooses Lea.

I don't think this can be possible based on when I received my first PM but I don't want to go down that road too heavily because it's getting too Meta and not what we should be focusing on

TotallyNotMI posted...

BCT probably is on scum Corrik's team so Corrik can't say him. If he did and BCT flips scum, he's dead.

Yes that was where I was getting at.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I don't think this can be possible based on when I received my first PM but I don't want to go down that road too heavily because it's getting too Meta and not what we should be focusing on

It would simply make it simpler if there was a very clear contradiction. But it seems weird to me that these two roles actually exist (which you both say must be true), you saying this about your arrival, and Suprak spends forever to come to the conclusion that there is nothing about PM arrivals that can be used. But okay maybe this just wasn't considered so let's just leave it. In the end I don't think there's a clear enough contradiction that someone absolutely have to lie. Likely doesn't change much.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Can we not?

are you concerned this is a ploy to save someone else?

TotallyNotMI posted...

However. Mine very clearly says no roles other than mine have been assigned yet. So I think I had to get mine first, confirmed me and Lea as town, then Corrik got his.

Devils advocate in me says that suprak has to tell you both this in order to prevent either of you from knowing more than you should.

on the other hand, corrik is claiming YOU were on HIS list and that sorta puts a wrench in things. Unless we are to argue that Corrik was first and you were second and Corrik never would have appeared for you no matter what. But I don't want to get into breaking pm time rules so I'm not traveling down the timing path.

Lea posted...

If Corrik had claimed immediately no one would have been able to claim a kill on poor, sweet innocent Lopen.

Ignore that would have made Scum much more likely to win~

Maybe thats why Scare shot Lopen?

Then again none of this lopenstuff seems planned

I do want to slow the roll on BCT a little bit. With zero traditional power flipped its possible there is no scanning and protection and BCTs role is a very powerful alternative,

Now, I dont think that is particularly likely as there is a lot unclaimed still and BCTs vote fiasco at the end of the day yesterday was questionable, but lynching him on role meta at this point is not where you want to be

masterplum posted...

I do want to slow the roll on BCT a little bit. With zero traditional power flipped its possible there is no scanning and protection and BCTs role is a very powerful alternative,

Now, I dont think that is particularly likely as there is a lot unclaimed still and BCTs vote fiasco at the end of the day yesterday was questionable, but lynching him on role meta at this point is not where you want to be

Fun fact his role is the only thing stopping me from pushing him harder

Plum go read his start of today post by Suprak and compare it to any other post he made

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Whoa slow you roll there lea

I mean it was not role meta I just brought up, I questioned Corrik saying Lopen if he's lying about names.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Last posts were page 5 of last topi

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Hes, but there are a lot of people who have him top 3 of their list

TotallyNotMI posted...

Fun fact his role is the only thing stopping me from pushing him harder

Plum go read his start of today post by Suprak and compare it to any other post he made

Yes, its very weird.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I mean it was not role meta I just brought up, I questioned Corrik saying Lopen if he's lying about names.

My best guess is Corrik forgot he said that and while coming up with a fake claim tried to fit who he would pick in that situation in without verifying it matched his play.

The only thing that worries me is this would not be corriks worst ever Town fake claim.

But Corrik generally doesnt do this any more as town

It's possible but I'd think Corrik thinks this more through if it's made up regardless.

##unvote

##vote: corrik

forgot to unvote BCT. thanks for the reminder

You're welcome

But like why would Corrik suicide?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

But like why would Corrik suicide?

Create distrust in masons and get a claim out there

I don't think its suicidal if Corrik didn't claim to confirm town the guy who he didn't care died at all

I think him claiming he could have VETOed MI is what strained his credibility too much.
After Scare I dont see any reason to humor breaks from logic like that.

I also think Corrik's plan was to try to get one mason lynched and the other night killed to remove us from the board. But when he realized that the consensus wasn't on the side of lynching one of us he backed off to a neutral stance.

#FreeVOTALs:
[4] Corrik - (MI), MI, Sbell, plum, Lea
[2] Ben - Chang, (Lea), Sultan
[2] Death - MI, Ben
[1] Sbell - Chaeix, (Lea)
[1] MI - Corrik
[0] plum - (Sultan), (Sbell)
[0] Chaeix - (plum)
[0] BCT - (Sbell), (Sbell)

With 14 alive it takes 8 to lynch! Day ends at 9 PM CST today (roughly 10.5 hours from now)!

Host's note:
I have a Christmas party to attend, so VOTALs will likely be fairly sparse between the hours of 2 PM - 7 PM, but I'll definitely be around near deadline. k thx bye!

Honestly the start of day2 makes me feel like Ben was scums next target and not scum with Scare because its easier to list who didn't want Ben dead.
(Which is to say as far as I can see that was no-one)

htaeD posted...

Honestly the start of day2 makes me feel like Ben was scums next target and not scum with Scare because its easier to list who didn't want Ben dead.
(Which is to say as far as I can see that was no-one)

I don't like this post

Death, you've been around long enough to know by d3 reads are fairly entrenched by scum