Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Leon, Kiryu, Rika and Mega Man vs. B.J. Blazkowicz and Samus

(+) Yeah! (+)

Leon Kennedy, Kazuma Kiryu, Rika Furude and Mega Man have challenged B.J. Blazkowicz and Samus Aran to a fight! Location of the fight: Castle Wolfenstein - The fearsome Nazi fortress itself as seen in Wolfenstein: The Old Blood, an ancient castle refitted by the german forces into a major hub for their war efforts. Claustrophobic corridors and cramped catwalks alternate with sprawling waterways, ancient cellars and dusty old catacombs. All locations are accessible, and while no Nazi scum are present, their vehicles and cable cars are fully operational. Attackers will start at the checkpoint station leading up to the castle proper, while defenders will start at the landing point on the fifth floor. Which side will win?

Guidelines

- The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
- The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
- Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
- There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

- Bold your votes.
- You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
- Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
- If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
- This match will end in 24 hours.

Leon Kennedy is as he appears in the Resident Evil series, including canonical supplementary media. He comes into battle with his two Wing Shooter pistols, his knife, a Lightning Hawk magnum, a handful of grenades and the Chicago Typewriter, all fully upgraded.

Kazuma Kiryu is as he appears in the Yakuza series, at the peak of his fighting prowess. He comes into battle equipped with three bottles of Staminan Royale, the Ama-no-Murakumo blade, Extremely Sturdy Brass Knuckles, a 9mm handgun with unlimited ammo, the Transcendent Body Armor and a motorcycle. He may use any of his fighting styles, Heat Actions and techniques as he sees fit, and starts the battle with full Heat, which will not drain unless used.

Rika Furude is as she appears throughout Higurashi no Naku Koro ni. She has no equipment other than her school uniform and a mop, and is pretty much exactly as terrible at fighting as you would expect a ten year old girl to be. When Rika dies in a match, she will go back in time, and though she will retain her memories, no other mercenaries will under any circumstances. Rika will first restart the match entirely, then to thirty seconds into the second loop if she dies again, then a minute into the third, and so on. If the time Rika would rewind to is after her death, then she will be unable to go back and the match will proceed as normal. The rest of Rika's team will not be aware of any of this.

Mega Man is as he appears across the Mega Man series. He has access to his Mega Buster, his Magnet Beam, his dog Rush (and various Rush modes), the Double Gear system and all his weapons from the mainline Mega Man series, though Gravity Hold and Centaur Flash will share an energy pool and Flash Stopper will only have its lore effects and not stop time in any way. He also has access to his moveset from the Marvel vs Capcom series, hyper combos included, as well as a variety of weapons based on his defeated foes, allowing him to use Raiden's (Metal Gear Rising) Murasama Blade in battle. He may teleport to any point of the terrain at will. However, quantum teleportation is fussy, so it will only work if no sentient being is perceiving him when he attempts to do it.

~VS~

B.J. Blazkowicz is as he appears in Wolfenstein: The New Order, with his full arsenal (including upgraded Laserkraftwerk) and all weapons fully upgraded.

Samus is as she appears in Metroid Dread. She is equipped with her Gravity Suit, all upgrades, and all Aeion abilities from both Dread and Samus Returns (though only her single, recharging Aeion tank). She also has access to her Light Beam, Dark Beam, Sunburst, Darkburst, Sonic Boom, Seeker Missiles, Dark & Echo visors from Metroid Prime 2. Her Metroid DNA will not fully awaken during battle. Her most favored limb has come off. She will not feel any pain from losing it, but will have to make do for this week's battle without it. The enemy team has become aware of Samus' presence and all that she is capable of, and succumbed to fear of the foe they're now tasked with facing. They will prioritize defeating her above all else, making their battle plan revolve around her defeat and abandoning other plans to ensure her demise.

...so Samus has lost her blaster arm then, yeah?

Yes, she has lost the entire limb. Arm and all.

FFDragon posted...

...so Samus has lost her blaster arm then, yeah?

Interp applies but I would very much imagine that is the case, yes. Hard to argue any of Samus' other limbs are as relevant to her.

Really interested in what Eddv has to say here. Samus without her arm cannon is reliant on her bombs, and when she did that in Federation Force, she looked very underwhelming (and she was giant there!)

So the most important thing to lay out in this match is how insanely good it is for my team as a team with the ability to fire guns at relatively long range.

Here is a picture taken from the attackers starting point where you can see the castle and the giant ravine they have to cross, most likely in cable cars.
<img src="https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/8/AAR9yWAAEPQ6.jpg">
<img src="https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/0/9/9/AAR9yWAAEPQ7.jpg">

You can see how long it takes to get up and down via cable care here but its a good 5-10 minutes eveny for a speedrunner. All Samus has to do is drop s power bomb in there at any point and destroy the cable car sending Rika Kiryu and Leon to their deaths minimum. Thanks to Rikas ability, Rock Man here probably at least knows hes gotta deploy rush at some point in here but still.

https://youtu.be/mDqClwXMu-s?t=1899

My team has pretty good visibility down the ravine as you can see here.

BJ has a number of longer range options with his 4 machine gun options, his assault rifles but the key one is his LazerKraftWerk.

Fully Upgraded this thing is an absolute menace for bokos team - its strobe effect creates a disorienting flashbang effect. The Tesla effect actually bends it TOWARDS robots and power armor so if Mega Man decides to fly up on Rush this things just gonna home on him and destroy him. He doesnt even need to aim that well. Its also got a targeting scope that lets it be used as a sniper weapon. It can bounce off a surface meaning even if it hits the cable car cover it can just bounce off and still find its target.

Here it is in action
https://youtu.be/WFCYAd0A8uQ

Samus is here left handed. As we know, gun is on the right arm of the suit but isnt literally her right arm. She can put the cannon her left and while I grant that that isnt ideal and she cant steady the arm cannon Samus has two different sources of homing rockets on this build (base from Dread and a second set from her custom). She also literally doesnt need them here. She can fly and has bombs she can launch, one which literally creates a black hole and draws in and destroys smaller (aka human sized) targets and the other of which is just a big explosion which is gonna be a "bad time" in those cable cars.

Samus is also drawing any and all offense the enemy musters allowing her to draw all that firepower from mega man. From Samus Returns, she has the ability to use Lightning Armor, which makes her impervious to damage. She is also VERY dodgy as you can see in this boss fight from metroid dread.

https://youtu.be/G4SxwFMYl_g

With BJ having free reign to do what he will, IN ALL LIKELIHOOD he has managed to shoot bokos entire team to death before the get up the chasm. If they do get close Samus has the short range and homing weaponry and the short term invincibility to allow BJ to again just destroy people - as if he has to he can use the laser in fully automatic mode or switch to dual wielding machine guns or triple barrel shotguns.

man there are not many characters that would be hurt more by losing an arm than Samus

tl;dr bokos team has to cross a ravine in cable cars vs a sniper and someone who can drop bombs on the cable cars dropping them into the ravine below and otherwise giving them a bad time.

BJ also cant be targeted til samus is dead and with lightning armor is hard to kill.

As someone who actually played every Wolfenstein game -- can confirm that 'there's a giant fucking ravine' isn't exaggeration and the only ways into the castle are the cable car or just jumping like a good 30-40 yards into water without killing yourself against the sheer rock formations and then swimming through very cold winter water. It's not impossible, BJ himself survives that drop...but with a Powerbomb detonation going off on people's faces? IDK. That's a really horrendous ambush. As far as 'X SOLOS' arguments, this is one of the more interesting ones I've ever seen.

Right and Mega Man himself is poorly suited to deal with BJ because the Laser literally has a homing effect vs mechanical opponents and deals way more damage vs machines and hes not exactly thr most dodgy, especially not riding on Rush

If this terrain is good for a team to fire guns with long range, then Mega Man, Leon, and Kazuma will fit right in on this turf.

And Mega Man can actually use his arm cannon cuz he has that arm! Unlike Samus

Unfortunately, Rita doesn't have a ton of ranged options, but her passive will allow her many tries on this terrain to learn the ins and outs of where to go. Mega Man, Leon, and Kazuma, three people with ranged options (an ideal fight on this terrain according to eddv) are the exact type of people that will listen to Rika when she tells them where to go.

Additionally, Mega Man is by far the best single combatant in this fight (Samus WOULD BE, if she could use her cannon arm). The initial prompt doesn't mention the fact that Mega Man can teleport anywhere on the terrain at will as long as long as he isn't in sight of the enemies via sans passive. With Rika, knowing where to go and not to go, Mega Man can take advantage of this ability fighting majorly nerfed Samus and BJ with ideal positioning.

I'm not sure how big the ravine is, but I think Megan Man can probably make it across with teleportation.

And regardless of how "detrimental" this terrain is, Rika will figure out out to best position herself and her friends. I don't see nerfedSamus and BJ vs Mega Man, Rika and friends being a quick battle. Rika is actually perfectly suited her to set up her team in this matchup.

Leon and Kazuma have various long ranged options to assist in the long range fight.

The initial prompt doesn't mention the fact that Mega Man can teleport anywhere on the terrain at will as long as long as he isn't in sight of the enemies via sans passive.

This is important and has been added to Mega Man's writeup.

Thank you boko for pointing it out. Carry on everyone.

Right but one team is at the bottom of the ravine and having the go up as sitting ducks in a cable care while BJ and Samus can use cover and BJ doesnt even have to because Samus is so cool.

Important note though: it's not just enemies. NOBODY can be looking at Mega Man, allies included, for him to teleport.

Mega Man: nothing personnel, kid...

Ok so Mega Man doesnt have to climb up the terrain but hes still going against a samus he cant kill and a BJ with a gun that homes at him and is especially good vs. machines and which basicslly stun locks him.

I don't know if I would describe them as sitting ducks when they'll have perfect information via Rika passive do overs, Mega Man teleport, and Samus wondering where her arm is when trying to use the cannon.

Unfortunately this terrain is so large that Rika's do-over's won't matter. If they die one time, they won't get much intel again since it's timed so low (30 seconds a third time) that they won't meet again in any relevant situation.

Rikas probably not surviving all that long here her rewinds are of minimal help here. Its only via her that mega even thinks to engage in zany starts that wont even help much

MajinZidane posted...

I don't know if I would describe them as sitting ducks when they'll have perfect information via Rika passive do overs, Mega Man teleport, and Samus wondering where her arm is when trying to use the cannon.

The thing is that they don't really have much of a choice. You either take the cable car to get into Castle Wolfenstein or you take a dip into the water. You can reach the latter in one of two ways: An enormous leap of faith, or a fairly treacherous route going underneath the guard station's bridge that eventually leads to water also. The first of these pathways ends in powerbombs into a dip in water amidst the shattered wreck of the cable car. The second I think Kiryu can pull off, but Leon's a maybe and Rika absolutely can't because she's too babu and unathletic. There's a genuine question of whether Rika runs out of loops before they decide to go snooping under the freakin' bridge for a pathway. Who'd think to take that angle of attack to find a way into the fortress they have to siege?

Woah hold up that is NOT what her ability says, hopefully somebody on their PC can copy and paste what it actually does.

She gets 30 seconds, 60 seconds, and so on.

Nobody is arguing that BJ wins this fight in 30 seconds, so Rika is going to get time to use her do overs. Probably many times.

How far away is the cable car from Samus's starting point? Can she not only get there before the other team, but also make sure that the cable car that she's on is the one the other team has to ride up?

IN the grand scheme of things, any advantage Rika provides isn't really a huge thing anyway.

Mega Man > nerfedSamus, Leon and Kazuma >> BJ. Rika exists.

What is Samus even doing here with just her left hand? This fight is basically a 3v1, if you say Rika contributes nothing. I think she at least helps a little bit with terrain information.

Not sure if it matters, but it's not just nobody "looking" at Megaman - it's anyone perceiving him in any way, through any senses.

yeah like smelling him

editted my post, i was wrong

I conveniently posted a picture!

And Samus can you know, see. Activate lightning armor so she doesnt get shot, drop bombs, return.

Samus as of Dread has some melee range expertise. Not a lot, but some. If nothing else she's tanky enough that she would be a persistent annoyance just by existing. Honestly getting tackled by a Chozo suit speed boost would really hurt everyone on this field except Mega Man.

Really just gonna no sell BJs specifically anti robot gun that again he barely even has to AIM at mega man

MajinZidane posted...

Woah hold up that is NOT what her ability says, hopefully somebody on their PC can copy and paste what it actually does.

She gets 30 seconds, 60 seconds, and so on.

Nobody is arguing that BJ wins this fight in 30 seconds, so Rika is going to get time to use her do overs. Probably many times.

Confirming that this is how it works yes. Rika gets a lot of retries on a place as big as this and that is so difficult to traverse unless you think everyone on Boko's team goes into the cable car to die like lemmings repeatedly

(which if so, uh, vote Eddv without a second thought. I don't think it happens that way tho)

KamikazePotato posted...

Samus as of Dread has some melee range expertise. Not a lot, but some. If nothing else she's tanky enough that she would be a persistent annoyance just by existing. Honestly getting tackled by a Chozo suit speed boost would really hurt everyone on this field except Mega Man.

Agreed thats not shown on my boss fight vs the Raven beak but its not as though she is helpless is melee.

Especially since this is a hybrid between her dread and returns selves where the lightning armor extends her melee range.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RISNdz22Zk

Nipahhhhhhh~

by the way I think Rika's ability is fucking busted on large maps and it shouldn't exist outside of a test run

MajinZidane posted...

I don't know if I would describe them as sitting ducks when they'll have perfect information via Rika passive do overs, Mega Man teleport, and Samus wondering where her arm is when trying to use the cannon.

Worth noting that BJ does have sniper capability with the laser as I said.

Also re: Samus, its arguable I thik that she can just rematerialize the suit with no arm inside it and still use her aiming agnostic weapons like the rockets and charge shots.

KamikazePotato posted...

by the way I think Rika's ability is fucking busted on large maps and it shouldn't exist outside of a test run

Funnily enough I think this map is enormous and I'm still leaning towards team BJ

The only one who can kill Samus is Mega Man, he wants her dead really badly and he's going to prioritize doing that -- and he can teleport ahead. A 2v1 of Samus and BJ vs Mega Man where Rock is not hitting BJ at all doesn't end well for him I think. Boko's team needs to kill Samus somehow to win and I don't know if Rika can help them formulate a battle plan that succeeds at that when only one person on their team can hurt her (two if you give Kiryu a L O T of credit with the Ama-no-Murakumo).

I really don't think Mega Man teleports ahead for no reason. That doesn't fit the ability description at all.

KamikazePotato posted...

I really don't think Mega Man teleports ahead for no reason. That doesn't fit the ability description at all.

I think it might be his first instinct (it does say they'll abandon other battle plans to ensure her demise) but Rika comes in clutch there. After one or two tries, she'll probably be able to persuade Rock to not do that and play with the team. The main issue is just, can they concoct a one in a million plan to let Rock defeat Samus? Because if he dies nobody else can even hurt her and BJ will eventually kill them all.

KamikazePotato posted...

I really don't think Mega Man teleports ahead for no reason. That doesn't fit the ability description at all.

Well its not no reason, its bold text.

The issue with Mega Man teleporting ahead is that he needs to know where Samus is. He has no way of knowing that. Rika can tell him where she'll be when the teams meet, but that doesn't mean Samus is there from the start of the match.

The enemy team has become aware of Samus' presence and all that she is capable of, and succumbed to fear of the foe they're now tasked with facing. They will prioritize defeating her above all else, making their battle plan revolve around her defeat and abandoning other plans to ensure her demise.

If it was succumbed to rage, I might be able to interpret that as Mega Man teleporting forward. Rage inspires aggression. Fear inspires caution, and Mega Man isn't going to leave behind his team if the optimal way to achieve Plan: Kill Samus is to stick with his team and attack her as a group.

Right the fact is rikas using up a lot of rewinds just on "dont use the cable cars" and other failed ideas at getting across the ravine before they even land on anything close to resembling a useful gameplan. Theres a serious chance this party wipes before landing on anything close to an ideal game plan considering even if they DO find the secret entrance, the castlr is full of hazards and such

What it sounds like is everything needs to go PERFECT for team Rika and theres a lot of reasons it might not

Yes

MajinZidane posted...

Yes

See even boko agrees

KamikazePotato posted...

If it was succumbed to rage, I might be able to interpret that as Mega Man teleporting forward. Rage inspires aggression. Fear inspires caution, and Mega Man isn't going to leave behind his team if the optimal way to achieve Plan: Kill Samus is to stick with his team and attack her as a group.

This is fair and I buy that. It's a natural instinct to stick together against scary things. Some mercenaries might go 'IMMA FIGHT MY FEAR' but Rock isn't the type to go off halfcocked like that.

Big question: for Rika, how aware is she of her powers and willing to metagame it + tell allies about it

Because she could just say "Hey, let's wait a day before attacking so we get like 3000 retries"

doesn't she explicitly need a character upgrade for that level of metagaming

Let me check the wiki - this character is 1 upkeep with a minimum bid of 10?

What a steal

Also the text seems vague. It clearly states that her team isn't aware of the time warping, but doesn't specify that she can't tell them, or that they wouldn't believe her if she tries