Board 8 > Tekken Mafia Topic 7 - Death by Degrees

(+) Yeah! (+)

Oh no matter what happens I'd say to keep a healthy suspicion on the powerclaims going forward.
But tonight should at least make it easier to find liars among them.

Going back in time
I note that while Wallz grilled Kirby about his nilla claim, he did not bother to vote Kirby
Kirby also voted Abacus instead of Wallz simply because he was better than nothing.

It adds to me that Kirby as scum is probably the last Mishima and not a Gcorp.
Though really I shouldn't be picky, dead scum is dead scum.

Scum has to balance watcher fear with also scum shooting them fear. Heh. Why they probably claimed vanillas.

Me and mzero will be dead tomorrow if scum was able to both pick right.

Going to look back at the start of day 2 real quick before end of day

htaeD posted...

Welp guess plum is scum for opening the can of independents.

Though honestly I'd say Sbell was probably (or at least partially) killed because his interaction with Ulti sorta townconfirmed him. Ben is the one thats giving me more to think about.

I just can't get over how not town of a post Death made at the start of the day

Kirby321 posted...

Plum, you never addressed the point Lopen brought up.

Did strongman never cross your mind at all? Why did you automatically default to one of those kills being third-party?

And this post by kirby is equally bad. This completely looks like one scum team hunting the other

I'm going to be honest. These players are both bad and we can kill either of them

(By bad I mean scummy not actually bad. I don't think Death or Kirby has played poorly this game regardless of alignment)

EDumey posted...

You look bad in general for having a terrible voting record. Not wanting to lynch Ulti (I think you're likely not Mishima, but could still be G Corp who thought he was town and trying to gets points defending him). Sheeping all of your votes, even if consistent with what you stated you would do, is still scummy behavior, as it hides your real opinions and prevents us from knowing what you actually think. Frankly you should be lynched every game you try this "will gift my vote to the best player in the game" strat just to unincentivize you from ever doing it again, as it's not pro-town.
Peaf defended you out of nowhere in 4.108 so you have a bad association there and could fit on any scum team that includes Peaf. Red made a pretty bad "clear" of you in 4.437, so you could fit on any scum team that includes Red.
What pro-town things have you done this game IGCD? From what I can see, you've been anti-town at best, with scummy associations at worst.

So you, like plum, only believe my lynch is worth getting rid of "anti-town" behaviour not because you actually believe it is scum behaviour. Such a terrible reason to vote someone.

Also why couldn't I be town that genuinely believed Ulti was town? You talk about me not giving genuine reads but the fact that I was willing to give my life for a player i believe is better than me because I believed they are town is the most pro town mindset one could have.

I'll also throw it out there that it is pretty clear scum would have had to of known there is two scum teams due to the Williams sisters why would a Kemmerer of a smaller scum team handicap their team to save another member of a scum team or town in that regard the play makes no sense from a scum perspective.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Kemmerer of a smaller scum team

Should be *member of a smaller scum team*

I have a question isquen

Isquen posted...

Plum: I will ask a direct question of you. I know you think Lopen is scummy, but do you think Lea has her hands clean too? Because I've slept on it but something was a bit weird with response timing day 1.

In point of fact...
##vote: Lea

Why did you watch lea N1 if you thought she was scummy?

This is probably superfluous but figure I might as well do my due diligence here

As for what pro town things I've done, as anyone to recall a si gle game where I have ever been town that has done "pro-town" things, they don't exist because any attempt at being "pro-town" that the majority of you bitch about has always led to me getting into a massive fight with someone and getting mislynched because I am not good at articulating my reads. I refuse to put myself there psychologically anymore.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

as anyone to recall a si gle game

*ask anyone to recall a single game*

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Getting rid of a kill would be nice.

Yeah ok

##Unvote
##Vote:Kirby

I think that post by kirby also defaults into the "Know too much" I was looking for.

And kirby has been triggering everyones scumdar

And Wallz hesitating on voting makes sense if he is on the same team as kirby.

We can Death tomorrow.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

So you, like plum, only believe my lynch is worth getting rid of "anti-town" behaviour not because you actually believe it is scum behaviour. Such a terrible reason to vote someone.

Holy selective reading Batman. I said your votes were actively bad and your associations with known scum were actively bad. The anti-town argument is that instead of having positive looking scum hunting or genuine reads from you, the best I can get is your anti-town sheeping. It's not the reason for you being scum, but it's a reason why all I have from you is negative, and nothing positive.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Also why couldn't I be town that genuinely believed Ulti was town? You talk about me not giving genuine reads but the fact that I was willing to give my life for a player i believe is better than me because I believed they are town is the most pro town mindset one could have.

It's not pro-town because giving your vote to the "strongest" player can backfire in so many ways. D1 you wanted to sheep scum Ulti. D2 you sheeped Lopen who mistakenly tried to move the lynch off of scum Wallz. (Maybe Lopen was right in trying to move it to scum Death, so the jury is still out on that one, but the point stands that even following a town call like that can move the lynch off of scum.) Pro-town is to give your opinions so that we can have an understanding of where you stand, so we can develop reads about the game. Even if you were town and give your vote to the best town payer and successfully lynch scum the whole game, it would still be an anti-town function to essentially be a waste of a player slot that no one can garner any reads on.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I'll also throw it out there that it is pretty clear scum would have had to of known there is two scum teams due to the Williams sisters why would a Kemmerer of a smaller scum team handicap their team to save another member of a scum team or town in that regard the play makes no sense from a scum perspective.

This would imply that you knew Ulti was scum and tried to save him? The argument is that you being G Corp and thinking Ulti was town, tried to save him so that when he flipped, you would look better for not fully believing in the lynch. The fact that you did the same bullshit with your Death vote D2 where you vote to sheep Lopen, but then say you don't understand the Death lynch, means that you actively escape culpability for the flip regardless of whether or not it's a scum or town lynch. Have some conviction and vote for who you think is scum instead, instead of hiding behind other players and digging out an escape tunnel on the way.

Considering my sheeping has resulted in me being on more scum lynches as town than when I make an effort to do what you're complaining about I disagree. Me making my own reads and trying to push those lynches results in me being wrong 100% of the time with being mislynched myself 100% of the time doing what you're asking results in a net loss for town 100% of the time. When I sheep I have a 25-33% chance of following the best player on to scum lynches more than 50% of the time.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

As for what pro town things I've done, as anyone to recall a si gle game where I have ever been town that has done "pro-town" things, they don't exist because any attempt at being "pro-town" that the majority of you bitch about has always led to me getting into a massive fight with someone and getting mislynched because I am not good at articulating my reads. I refuse to put myself there psychologically anymore.

This isn't a comment about this game, but IGCD, I think you and I just philosophically see the world a different way. I think the answer to "people mislynch me because I'm bad at articulating my reads" isn't "i guess i'll just never try again", and instead should be, "i'll keep trying to get better."
I don't know how many games you've played of Mafia, but people do adjust and learn to read players better over time. I think Sultan is a good example of someone who doesn't always make air-tight logical arguments, but people have learned to interpret Sultan and actually value him and the perspectives he brings a lot because they've understood him over time. But he comes in and tries every game, doesn't just give up.

I'm sorry if getting mislynched for your reads in the past has been frustrating for you, but I can promise you that this "I'm just going to sheep other players and never put myself out there" attitude is gonna end in frustration too.

I just don't see the point in ever signing up for a game if the plan is to sheep the entire way through.

Like sheep D1? Sure. Sheep the entire game? Why even bother showing up

masterplum posted...

I just don't see the point in ever signing up for a game if the plan is to sheep the entire way through.

Like sheep D1? Sure. Sheep the entire game? Why even bother showing up

Dude has a winning strategy

EDumey posted...

This isn't a comment about this game, but IGCD, I think you and I just philosophically see the world a different way. I think the answer to "people mislynch me because I'm bad at articulating my reads" isn't "i guess i'll just never try again", and instead should be, "i'll keep trying to get better."
I don't know how many games you've played of Mafia, but people do adjust and learn to read players better over time. I think Sultan is a good example of someone who doesn't always make air-tight logical arguments, but people have learned to interpret Sultan and actually value him and the perspectives he brings a lot because they've understood him over time. But he comes in and tries every game, doesn't just give up.

I'm sorry if getting mislynched for your reads in the past has been frustrating for you, but I can promise you that this "I'm just going to sheep other players and never put myself out there" attitude is gonna end in frustration too.

Just because I'm sheeping people doesn't mean I'm not trying, I'm putting in the best effort I can to give town the best opportunity they have. Giving someone I know is a better player than me an extra vote is 100% of the time going to be a better play for town than me trying to figure it out. That doesn't mean I am not still trying to figure shit out, that's why you'll see pop in and ask seemingly random questions every once in a while. That's why I'll come in and ask for little summaries, because when I try and play catch up my eyes will gloss over reading shit, depending on who answers at any state of the game tells me how much salt I should take with summaries as I get them.

I'm still waiting on Lea with her, baseball mafia/last scum game reread she was going to do.

masterplum posted...

I just don't see the point in ever signing up for a game if the plan is to sheep the entire way through.

Like sheep D1? Sure. Sheep the entire game? Why even bother showing up

Because if Chris is town and I am town and he lynches scum day 1 and doesn't die why would I deviate from that plan?

IGCD, join me. Together, we shall bring G Corp to its knees.

##Unvote
##Vote: Death

We must protect Plum from whichever sacrificial lamb G Corp tries to throw at him!

I have been checking in books for four hours straight and wanna nap argh

masterplum posted...

I have a question isquen

Why did you watch lea N1 if you thought she was scummy?

This is probably superfluous but figure I might as well do my due diligence here

I didnt think she was scummy until after I got the result. Peculiar that we have two ninjas showing and a major N1 target has no one else visit her but you, hence why I'm presuming you to be (but not 100% clearing) protection.

Oh so now I am Gcorp again?

I'd vote you back but I dont want to put anyone at -1 so suddenly

But two can play that game

IGCD this is your chance at redemption. You voted the wrong man last time, now is your chance to get it right!

I know. I just wish I could get people to understand that results-oriented thinking is generally a bad idea. You can make bad decisions and get a good result. That good result doesn't mean you should keep making bad decisions. Gotta be able to separate those two things.

Anyway, I'm not voting IGCD and not really interested in lynching him today over Kirby or Death. Was just responding to him saying "i'm not scum and everyone here knows it."

Does day end in like just an hour? Or is it later? Not sure if people realize that Ctes changed the end time from last day, it's real slow right now.

Isquen posted...

I have been checking in books for four hours straight and wanna nap argh

I didnt think she was scummy until after I got the result. Peculiar that we have two ninjas showing and a major N1 target has no one else visit her but you, hence why I'm presuming you to be (but not 100% clearing) protection.

Did anyone besides Lopen complain that Lea should not be seen as the most towny of towns?
That could say something about a players true feelings (as in, they also did not consider targeting her night1)

I think its in an hour (and 15 minutes)

##unvote
Thank you for participating and I will come back to you later

Gut's served me well so far, I'm going to stick with
##vote: Dumey

I'm sorry but even if I spot you going somewhere it gives you an out to have claimed you were targeted by the night kill. It's TOO convenient.

I know this is going to be the musings of a crazed living dead, but hear me out.

Can someone point out how much Lea has interacted with Death and especially Peaf?

Did no one else find it extremely weird that Lea didn't come after me immediately today? She was trying to back off of me and pursue other targets.

G Corp is severely outnumbered by town, especially with their Ninja dead. G Corp needs the Mishima Zaibatsu as an extra night kill to give them the best chance of victory. G Corp thinks that I am Heihachi, when I am really just a lonesome townie who caught the wrong end of the stick. If they were convinced that I am part of the Mishima Zaibatsu, they likely tried to keep me alive at the start of the day.

This game is town's to win. There has simply been too much strife between father and son (and son's son). G Corp has been pulling the strings from the start. Should I fall, heed my words and look upon the past with the information you now wield, for this is fated retribution.

Oh no wait Kirby is already at -1

Also that sounds like a confession to me

What confession? I am town.

Would I ever lie to you guys?

htaeD posted...

Oh so now I am Gcorp again?

I'd vote you back but I dont want to put anyone at -1 so suddenly

But two can play that game

IGCD this is your chance at redemption. You voted the wrong man last time, now is your chance to get it right!

I mean, we don't know if my vote was wrong day 2.

I do tho.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Tell me something... did your fakeclaim actually say you were Ctes's main? Hard to believe Ctes would included such blatant contradiction in the flavor PMs, given Wallz' flip specifically mentioning that Ctes's main was Nina Williams.

Isquen posted...

##unvote
Thank you for participating and I will come back to you later

Gut's served me well so far, I'm going to stick with
##vote: Dumey

I'm sorry but even if I spot you going somewhere it gives you an out to have claimed you were targeted by the night kill. It's TOO convenient.

I don't fault you for this, honestly. My only argument is that there's basically no way scum shoots me at this time, so this could wait until you actually see me targetting the night kill to pursue this, because that situation seems very unlikely with our current night action plan.

Kirby321 posted...

What confession? I am town.

Would I ever lie to you guys?

oh. well i guess thank you for making this easy at the end.

Whelp...

Okay, I must confess. I'm actually Panda, Third-Party Survivor.

Spare me and I will bring G Corporation and the Mishima Zaibatsu to their knees

I like Lea's character more anyway

(Still have never played Tekken, all my knowledge comes from watching the game's cutscene endings. Which are hilarious)

Ughhh my initial Kirby vote day 2 was a throwaway but that "would I ever lie smile" is just too slimy.

##unvote
##vote: Kirby

If only comedy could stop you from murder

Lea's character the only one other than Heihachi and Kazuya, so she's at least in my top 3