Board 8 > Video Game Console Mafia - Topic 6: Aim for a High Score

(+) Yeah! (+)

Wallz who would you lynch instead?

Me personally, I think Sultan has been howling a good portion of today lol.

EDumey posted...

Alright Death, you put in all this time analyzing Lopen's scraps. What did you find? What alternative lynch do you suggest?

Well if I can apply little PoE to my own notes I would argue the ones who came out looking worse were Marth and Mzero and maybe Sultan (there is more to make him look good). But not all three at once.

Then there is Corrik who hasnt done anything noteworthy and I feel his time for becoming the Corrik I know is running out. But he is not on the top of my targetlist right now.

Ctes could have done more, but does not have any bad connections to Lopen either
Sbell could have done way more and has no connections at all, which in some ways is worse.
Finally Chris is not around enough (for understandable reasons) to be put anywhere higher than neutral. Though I also feel it is too soon to call him scum, but I do think he could stand to show more offensive initiative.

But I see my top 3 choices all have a reason to not be lynched yet as well (inno scan, power claims)
Though if it came to it, I would probably pick Mzero first. But even there I hesitate.
I dont know what to make of him being the first to defend me today.

Sultan or ctes

wallmasterz posted...

Why would everyone elses trust matter

It would not to me. But I alone cant decide if you reveal the 3rd name or not.
Plus at best it buys the doc only one more night since they will just kill me and him in a row.

htaeD posted...

Well if I can apply little PoE to my own notes I would argue the ones who came out looking worse were Marth and Mzero and maybe Sultan (there is more to make him look good). But not all three at once.

Then there is Corrik who hasnt done anything noteworthy and I feel his time for becoming the Corrik I know is running out. But he is not on the top of my targetlist right now.

Ctes could have done more, but does not have any bad connections to Lopen either
Sbell could have done way more and has no connections at all, which in some ways is worse.
Finally Chris is not around enough (for understandable reasons) to be put anywhere higher than neutral. Though I also feel it is too soon to call him scum, but I do think he could stand to show more offensive initiative.

But I see my top 3 choices all have a reason to not be lynched yet as well (inno scan, power claims)
Though if it came to it, I would probably pick Mzero first. But even there I hesitate.
I dont know what to make of him being the first to defend me today.

I think you are self resolving so I'm going to play DA for you being town and ask you to expand your read on MZero. I was sus on him d1 and early d2 but it has since dissipated. So if you have something more (besides Lopen analysis) that I can work with, I'd love to hear it.

wallmasterz posted...

Sultan or ctes

We could do two birds with one stone or just one bird with one stone lol.

Well I can give more if the day goes the full 48 hours. Pretty tired right now.

I do remember liking some posts of Mzero tho, so that'd be interesting.
It looks like him and Sultan are diametrically opposed and I was honestly more against Sultan at first and now I am again unsure.

htaeD posted...

Well I can give more if the day goes the full 48 hours. Pretty tired right now.

I do remember liking some posts of Mzero tho, so that'd be interesting.
It looks like him and Sultan are diametrically opposed and I was honestly more against Sultan at first and now I am again unsure.

I'll give you that sultan looks like complete doo doo.

Just not sure if I like your positioning on MZero, but you're going to either 1. Be lynched or 2. Be resolved at night, so I'm not concerned either way lol.

Let me try to do the MYLO math with testing Sultan. For the record I feel inclined to say again that I think Sultan is town so this isn't my preference, but something for town to consider.

(assuming Sultan is town and truthful)
12 people alive. 9v3 (probably safe to say 3 scum left at most)
Lynch Sultan, Sultan shoots MZero. Hypothetically MZero flips town. Scum shoots town.
9 people alive. 6v3
Another mislynch, scum shoots town.
7 people alive. 4v3
We are in MYLO, still have a chance to win.

However, I think it's highly highly likely that scum is either MZero or Death. So that worst case scenario probably wouldn't happen. More likely that we lynch scum when 9 people are alive, making is 5v2 in that last round.

It seems fairly safe to "test" Sultan if we think that one of MZero or Death is definitely scum.

My argument though is that we can do the same thing in reverse?

Just lynch Death. If he flips town, we can do the Sultan exchange after. Or if Death flips scum, we can test Sultan with him shooting someone else in the PoE like Ctes instead.

Sultan, answer me this: If Death flips scum, would you still suspect MZero, or would he be cleared because probably no way that they both visit Red N1 as scum?

EDumey posted...

Just lynch Death. If he flips town, we can do the Sultan exchange after. Or if Death flips scum, we can test Sultan with him shooting someone else in the PoE

How do you feel about having Sultan getting bopped today, not shooting MZ or Death, and death is leashed on a certain target with the caveat that he's outed if they die?

UnderUrMattress posted...

How do you feel about having Sultan getting bopped today, not shooting MZ or Death, and death is leashed on a certain target with the caveat that he's outed if they die?

If Sultan is scum and Death is also a mafia, then scum are immeasurably fucked

If Sultan is town and blasts scum that isn't Death, then mafia is equally as fucked.

Only issue is if Death is more than just a strongman like a joat but eh. I like this idea the more I think about it.

But also I may change my mind in 15 minutes :P

UnderUrMattress posted...

How do you feel about having Sultan getting bopped today, not shooting MZ or Death, and death is leashed on a certain target with the caveat that he's outed if they die?

Are you saying in the assumption that Sultan is scum? Yeah obviously that's favorable. But he's not going down without pointing his gun at someone. That's ridiculous to assume. Even if he's town, he's gonna take his shot for fun.

Or you're saying we have Sultan shoot randomly into the PoE like at Ctes or Corrik or something, and let Death and MZero have an extended lifespan. If Death is lying, then he's not on a "timer" at all, and we still have to resolve this at some point, and feel dumb for letting a 50/50 live for more than two nights.

Answer this Marth. Let's say we direct Death to BG the third watched person, but scum kill me instead for being town confirmed. So since Death and the third watched person are still alive, do you let Death/Mzero live again? Let's say they shoot you the next night because of your inno scan. Does town let them live again because both Death and the third watched person is still alive?
It's gotta be resolved at some point, and scum doesn't have to opt into resolving it immediately unless they REALLY want that third watched target dead.

EDumey posted...

Sultan, answer me this: If Death flips scum, would you still suspect MZero, or would he be cleared because probably no way that they both visit Red N1 as scum?

If Death flips Scum yes ill drop Mzero and he is cleared

I also worry Sultan could be town and scum just wants to hit two bird with one stone
(a phrase that Marth already used actually)

IMO it's best to just resolve this now than try to get super creative with it. Lynching Death has only two results, one good or one bad (with the bonus that the bad option gives us a clear other suspect as well). Leashing Death could go wrong in multiple other ways, and puts a more strict timer on our probably doctor.

EDumey posted...

Just lynch Death. If he flips town, we can do the Sultan exchange after. Or if Death flips scum, we can test Sultan with him shooting someone else in the PoE like Ctes instead.

I'm good with this.
I love it when you talk math to me

Dumey with respect to the fact youre probably but not definitely town Im not sure I worry about scum having a Jack which includes strongman, and I think giving death the chance to be a permanent shield for doc means he either dies saving doc an extra day or gets resolved that way instead of mislynch

wallmasterz posted...

Dumey with respect to the fact youre probably but not definitely town Im not sure I worry about scum having a Jack which includes strongman, and I think giving death the chance to be a permanent shield for doc means he either dies saving doc an extra day or gets resolved that way instead of mislynch

You do know that if Death is scum then all you've done is given up that name for free, and gotten nothing out of it?

wallmasterz posted...

and I think giving death the chance to be a permanent shield for doc means he either dies saving doc an extra day or gets resolved that way instead of mislynch

or he is scum and never dies while town gets slowly whittled away.

Like if the end result is that town all agrees that MZero is the more likely scum out of the pair, and wants to test that first, then I will defer to town's judgement. But you're also now not giving town MZero the chance to use his power, which could be valuable as well.

I mean Mzero cannot use his power if scanners keep being protected
And my power will be lost instead

But I suppose its the same risk either way

I gotta go now
If I get lynched tonight
ah well, I will say hi to Red

Though really I dont know why people are suggesting to kill Sultan on day4 when as far as they can know they will basically have the same situation now.

Current Votals
[4] Death - Dumey, (Chris), Sbell, (Marth), Corrik, Ctes, (Marth), (Ulti), (Wallz)
[1] MZero - Sultan
[1] SBell - Ulti
[1] Sultan - MZero

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day ends at 7PM EST Sunday, in ~23 and a half hours.

I mean if yall really wanna get my death outta the way do it now

EDumey posted...

or he is scum and never dies while town gets slowly whittled away.

Like if the end result is that town all agrees that MZero is the more likely scum out of the pair, and wants to test that first, then I will defer to town's judgement. But you're also now not giving town MZero the chance to use his power, which could be valuable as well.

To answer your post before, wallz was thinking of outing the third visitor (very likely a doctor) and having Death go on them. It would be up to the doc to outfox the mafia kill, but if doc dies, then Death is outed. If doc DOESN'T die, then mafia has a very difficult time maneuvering their night kills.

Now lynching outside of Death, you assume that we're going to "whittle town down" but that's a weird way of phrasing "cleaning out the rest of the consensus POE".

no i was referring to my above example of scum whittling down town by shooting outside of the doctor/bg trap. Death stays alive while they pick off less desirable townies (likely starting with almost confirmed town like me and leaving lynch options like MZero or Sultan alive). And then we have to take pot shots into the PoE.
Maybe we do hit scum in there, and still have to resolve MZero or Death later, because SCUM HAS THE OPTION TO PLAY AROUND IT.

Basically my argument is just to take the 50/50 in front of us and try not to argue ourselves out of a good strategy. The more variables you introduce, the more chances for failure you introduce.

##vote: death

I agree with dumey.

That's -2

One final argument, but what if mafia has a role cop and has doc either pinned or narrowed down, we lynch death and doc just dies. We have no means to save them unless we leash death

Then death dies and doc dies and we move on with the game with the text in front of us.

"What if mafia has a role cop" if you play your game around what-ifs of some super op role that scum could have then you're probably making weaker than optimal plays to begin with

##Vote: Death

L-1

htaeD posted...

Well if I can apply little PoE to my own notes I would argue the ones who came out looking worse were Marth and Mzero and maybe Sultan (there is more to make him look good). But not all three at once.

Then there is Corrik who hasnt done anything noteworthy and I feel his time for becoming the Corrik I know is running out. But he is not on the top of my targetlist right now.

Ctes could have done more, but does not have any bad connections to Lopen either
Sbell could have done way more and has no connections at all, which in some ways is worse.
Finally Chris is not around enough (for understandable reasons) to be put anywhere higher than neutral. Though I also feel it is too soon to call him scum, but I do think he could stand to show more offensive initiative.

But I see my top 3 choices all have a reason to not be lynched yet as well (inno scan, power claims)
Though if it came to it, I would probably pick Mzero first. But even there I hesitate.
I dont know what to make of him being the first to defend me today.

My last argument for Death is play-based. Does this look like town defending themselves from a lynch?

I can't speak for how townDeath or scumDeath would differ here as I don't have the sample-size to tell. But if I were in that situation as town, I would be trying to strongly build a case against someone as an alternate lynch. As scum, I would try to convince people that lynching claimed protection is a bad idea and try not to give up too much info on remaining town or scum one way or the other, so it can't be used against my team.

In Tekken Mafia when I got caught by a night scan, I made the mistake of hard pursuing Red before the info came out that damned me, which made it pretty much impossible to lynch Red at that time. Caught scum has to be careful with what they leave behind. Ask yourself from both perspectives. As town, does this look like giving reasonable alternatives to lynch? As scum, does this look like carefully not giving too much info?

In case I die for whatever reason tonight...

People trying to avoid the death lynch today are suspicious as hell. I haven't had time to fully go into things but I feel like there has been a lot of chaos sown today and trying to take away thread control from people who are incredibly likely town who are saying very correct things.

Like even in terrible scenarios where death flips town we need to know that ASAP.

SirChris posted...

Like even in terrible scenarios where death flips town we need to know that ASAP.

Lmao?

Alright I hope I'm wrong but I'll hammer if yall ready

SirChris posted...

In case I die for whatever reason tonight...

People trying to avoid the death lynch today are suspicious as hell. I haven't had time to fully go into things but I feel like there has been a lot of chaos sown today and trying to take away thread control from people who are incredibly likely town who are saying very correct things.

Like even in terrible scenarios where death flips town we need to know that ASAP.

You must be talking about me, and the plan was initially made by wallz and I still think it isn't a half bad idea, but my mind is overly complicated and I like thinking outside the box as much as possible.

Yeah it's super rude to just say "people" and not call out names, Chris.

Me, wallz, mzero, and Marth are the ones who considered it iirc.

I could be gambiting scum, trying to save face or out the doctor when i see that my kill didn't go through. Surprised no one brought it up.

Wallz is almost confirmed town.

Mzero could be lying scum who faked a scan to get on Marth's good side.

Marth could be gf.

But the least you could do is use names, if you're town

Current Votals
[6] Death - Dumey, (Chris), Sbell, (Marth), Corrik, Ctes, (Marth), (Ulti), (Wallz), Peaf, Marth
[1] MZero - Sultan
[1] SBell - Ulti
[1] Sultan - MZero

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 to lynch. Day ends at 7PM EST, in ~22 hours 15 minutes.

Peace___Frog posted...

Me, wallz, mzero, and Marth are the ones who considered it iirc.

I could be gambiting scum, trying to save face or out the doctor when i see that my kill didn't go through. Surprised no one brought it up.

Wallz is almost confirmed town.

Mzero could be lying scum who faked a scan to get on Marth's good side.

Marth could be gf.

But the least you could do is use names, if you're town

Those are townie people. Nevermind you guys just don't have a grasp of how easy it is to lose mafia games by going out of pocket.

Which means death has likely been conceded already rather than some nefarious plot. Corrik/sbell stocks DOWN.

Final Votals
[7] Death - Dumey, (Chris), Sbell, (Marth), Corrik, Ctes, (Marth), (Ulti), (Wallz), Peaf, Marth, Wallz
[1] MZero - Sultan
[1] SBell - Ulti
[1] Sultan - MZero

You have 10 minutes at most to get any errors in because dammit y'all I'm on mobile and need to sleep.

Death has been lynched! He was Xbox One, TOWN Bodyguard.

Now, the Xbox One is a console I dont have a ton of experience with. I owned one not long after launch, but quickly sold it on. Fortunately, I know one thing it has probably the best controller Ive ever used. Keep your dolphins and your dualshocks, this things blows them out of the water. Much like your role, its a beneficial distraction from what should be the true target the fact that there was basically no other reason to own one ahead of a PS4. Gamepass is kinda nice, and having Halo may still narrowly be considered a bonus in this day and age, but what else does it have? Forza? Gears of War? Discord compatibility? Okay, that one is pretty neat.

Each night, you may pick a target. Should that player be shot, you will die instead of them.

You win when all threats to TOWN have been eliminated.

Living Players
1) Peace___Frog
2) UltimaterializerX
3) MZero
4) Corrik7
5) wallmasterz
6) ctesjbuvf
7) Obellisk
8) EDumey
9) TheSultanOfSlam
10) SirChris
11) UnderUrMattress

The Dead

LD1: BlueCrystalTear - TurboGrafx-16: TOWN Vanilla
KN1: Leafeon13N - 3/2DS - TOWN Manual Hammerer Flavour Cop/Cop
LD2: Lopen - SNES: MAFIA Untargetable Roleblocker
LD3: hteaD - Xbox One: TOWN Bodyguard

It is now Night 3. You have ~21 hours to get any night actions in.

The previously tall figure, now barely four feet in height, removes his hood and takes off his mask. He stares directly into the camera, and his mouth moves with an uncannily humane... texture?

"I'm very, very disappointed in you all. This is the second time in a row you've not hit the threshold for likes that we set at the beginning of this challenge. What're y'all doing? Forget the face reveal. I know you've been waiting for it for a long time, but that doesn't matter right now. Step up your game! Make me break some shit."

Nobody has died.

Living Players
1) Peace___Frog
2) UltimaterializerX
3) MZero
4) Corrik7
5) wallmasterz
6) ctesjbuvf
7) Obellisk
8) EDumey
9) TheSultanOfSlam
10) SirChris
11) UnderUrMattress

The Dead

LD1: BlueCrystalTear - TurboGrafx-16: TOWN Vanilla
KN1: Leafeon13N - 3/2DS - TOWN Manual Hammerer Flavour Cop/Cop
LD2: Lopen - SNES: MAFIA Untargetable Roleblocker
LD3: hteaD - Xbox One: TOWN Bodyguard

It is now Day Four. With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. Day ends at 7PM EST on Tuesday, in ~48 hours.

You may now post.

Man the mafia really suck at this whole killing thing huh.

##Vote:Mzero

can we listen to me now and kill scum please

Ok well that's insane.

##Vote: Ctes