Current Events > ''This whole country mollycoddles Christians and I'm fuckin tired of it''

(+) Yeah! (+)

Dark_Arbron posted...

I assume the baseline to be following his teachings. Not necessarily believing that he was divine, even if that idea is woven into the narrative.

I'd take the standpoint that if you don't obey the teachings, then you don't really believe in the authority of the man who taught them. "I believe Jesus is the Son of God, but I'm not gonna go as far as actually listening to him and doing what he says." That's not faith. That's just pinning a meaningless badge of self-proclaimed religious identity to your lapel.

Dark_Arbron posted...

I assume the baseline to be following his teachings. Not necessarily believing that he was divine, even if that idea is woven into the narrative.

I would imagine a majority of those who call themselves Christians would vehemently disagree on the part about divinity not being necessary.

So who ultimately decides which get to call themselves "true" Christians?

Torgo posted...

It isn't directly "no true Scotsman", it's more like gate-keeping that can lead to No True Scotsman. But I don't think Tora_sami was posting in bad faith.

It's not so much gate keeping, as it is the basic principle of being Christian. Gate keeping is when you say someone who follows all the teachings and believes in Jesus and GOD isn't a Christian because their LGBTQ. That's gate keeping.

Torgo posted...

Was Christ in favor of equality for women or not?
Most major churches including the Catholic Church, Mormon/LDS, Southern Baptist convention etc. say women are NOT equal... so are you saying they are all "fake" Christians?

I'm asking seriously what is your opinion on that.

This is why, in a weird and admittedly fucked up sort of way, I have some degree of respect for fundamentalists. Because at least they dont pick and choose, they own their (partly shitty) beliefs warts and all.

Torgo posted...

Was Christ in favor of equality for women or not?
Most major churches including the Catholic Church, Mormon/LDS, Southern Baptist convention etc. say women are NOT equal... so are you saying they are all "fake" Christians?

I'm asking seriously what is your opinion on that.

Jesus was in favor of equality for all and love one another as you love him. Yes Jesus was in favor of that. Well their is nuance as well, as is in everything but yeah I would say their teachings are what is causing the issue of hate we have now. They are what Jesus called "false prophets". I blame the preacher's for the leading their flock to false terms.

Tora_Sami posted...

It's not so much gate keeping, as it is the basic principle of being Christian. Gate keeping is when you say someone who follows all the teachings and believes in Jesus and GOD isn't a Christian because their LGBTQ. That's gate keeping.

The bible is anti homosexual. It is clearly written and one of the few things that isn't contradicted.

A lot of Christians would have a legitimate point if they said accepting LGBTQ individuals makes someone a "fake" Christian.

Again... who decides?
Not me, that's for sure... but who?

Vampire_Chicken posted...

I'd take the standpoint that if you don't obey the teachings, then you don't really believe in the authority of the man who taught them. "I believe Jesus is the Son of God, but I'm not gonna go as far as actually listening to him and doing what he says." That's not faith. That's just pinning a meaningless badge of religious identity to your lapel.

Exactly!

Torgo posted...

I would imagine a majority of those who call themselves Christians would vehemently disagree on the part about divinity not being necessary.

So who ultimately decides which get to call themselves "true" Christians?

If you follow the teaching of Jesus to the best of your ability, given human faults I believe your Christian. Not saying someone has to be perfect but to recognize your errors and do your best to correct them is necessary. Doubling down cause your wrong and being a horrible human being and christian isn't the path of Jesus.

Torgo posted...

I would imagine a majority of those who call themselves Christians would vehemently disagree on the part about divinity not being necessary.

So who ultimately decides which get to call themselves "true" Christians?

I would be fine with them disagreeing on the divinity part. Im just saying that I personally place more value in them following his teachings rather than just putting him on a pedestal like post 51 said.

Actions speak louder than words, basically.

Tora_Sami posted...

If you follow the teaching of Jesus to the best of your ability, given human faults I believe your Christian. Not saying someone has to be perfect but to recognize your errors and do your best to correct them is necessary. Doubling down cause your wrong and being a horrible human being and christian isn't the path of Jesus.

So you get to decide if all the other self-proclaimed Christians are "true" or "fake"...?

That's an awfully big responsibility.
Who appointed you?

What do you say to them when they say you are a wishy-washy feelgood "fake" Christian that doesn't take the Bible seriously? Because that's what many would say.

I really want to get you folks here to think about this point.

There are hundreds of different Christian denominations that all interpret the Bible differently, and all have their own set of values to determine who is a "true" Christian.

But I have not once heard God come down and declare which ones are legit or illegitimate, so how do YOU get to decide?

As an atheist, I can comment on the behaviors of the various sects and denominations, and how they impact our culture and society - but I can't tell someone who claims to have a relationship with a God that their relationship with that god is more or less legitimate than someone else's - can I?

It feels like WestWorld in here now

Bad_Mojo posted...

So I brought up how they can get special treats while the other kids don't

Just having lunch is not a "special treat," my dude.

Torgo posted...

The bible is anti homosexual. It is clearly written and one of the few things that isn't contradicted.

A lot of Christians would have a legitimate point if they said accepting LGBTQ individuals makes someone a "fake" Christian.

Again... who decides?
Not me, that's for sure... but who?

It is contradicting when you want them stoned to death (metaphorically) when Jesus was strictly against that and GOD even said to take the plank out of your own eye before criticizing the spec in your brothers eye. Also there is debate on it, it isn't so cut and dry. In the first time GOD mentions homosexuality, he also condemns incest, beastiality, and other sexual acts. It never says a man cannot marry another man or a woman cannot marry another woman. It doesn't even mention men wearing woman's clothing. Either way, Jesus fulfilled the old testament law and made a new covenant. GOD above all else and love each other as you would love him.

DnDer posted...

Just having lunch is not a "special treat," my dude.

It is to a 6 year old

Torgo posted...

The bible is anti homosexual. It is clearly written and one of the few things that isn't contradicted.

I'm just gonna point out that Jesus had nothing to do with the Bible

Razor posted...

A country founded by Christians has prayers.

At some point, I'm sure you were told this was not founded as a Christian country, nor that it was founded by Christians.

You bought a line of bullshit. It's okay. It's one that was sold to people through 90% of the 20th century.

Get better.

Tora_Sami posted...

It is contradicting when you want them stoned to death (metaphorically) when Jesus was strictly against that and GOD even said to take the plank out of your own eye before criticizing the spec in your brothers eye. Also there is debate on it, it isn't so cut and dry. In the first time GOD mentions homosexuality, he also condemns incest, beastiality, and other sexual acts. It never says a man cannot marry another man or a woman cannot marry another woman. It doesn't even mention men wearing woman's clothing. Either way, Jesus fulfilled the old testament law and made a new covenant. GOD above all else and love each other as you would love him.

Many interpret the new covenant as keeping the old laws unless specifically stated otherwise. Do you throw away the Ten Commandments for example?

Will you tell all the other Christians they should toss out the old Testament and everything but the parts of the gospels that make you feel good or they are fake?

Bad_Mojo posted...

That's what coddling is.

It's not.

You're trying to split hairs and "argue semantics" in the way ancap libertarians try to "argue semantics" about being classical liberals.

Stop saying this.

Ilishe posted...

I'm just gonna point out that Jesus had nothing to do with the Bible

If you are Jewish, I suppose that's true, but we're talking about Christians so let's not be too cute by half and understand that we mean the Old and New Testament, which is obviously focused on Jesus, particularly the gospels and the writings attributed to Paul.

Torgo posted...

So you get to decide if all the other self-proclaimed Christians are "true" or "fake"...?

That's an awfully big responsibility.
Who appointed you?

What do you say to them when they say you are a wishy-washy feelgood "fake" Christian that doesn't take the Bible seriously? Because that's what many would say.

No one has, I am not a divine prophet. I go off of the teaching of Jesus Christ, as to be a Christian you are to follow in his path. Many people stumble on that path and that is fine. We are human and we all make mistakes. I'm not a perfect Christian and my son of the sloth holds me back a lot but if you have hate filling your heart and stone people when Jesus specifically said not to. Yeah your in the wrong. Not saying they are all fake, some are misguided but stuff like the westboro baptis church are clearly not Christians. Preacher's that teach other to hate on LGBTQ people and want them to burn in hell and murder them are not Christians. I'm not saying everything needs to be followed tot he letter but when you clearly go against the teachings of the Lord thein GOD then yeah, you are not a Christian.

DnDer posted...

At some point, I'm sure you were told this was not founded as a Christian country, nor that it was founded by Christians.

You bought a line of bullshit. It's okay. It's one that was sold to people through 90% of the 20th century.

Get better.

IKR?

Imagine using that line of thinking anywhere else: "This country was founded by slave-owners so naturally we must always remain a nation that practices and reveres slavery."

The scary and sad part is: there's a sizable crossover over of people that agree with both in America in 2023

DnDer posted...

It's not.

Okay

Can you please tell me what your think my opinion on this subject is? I don't think you understand that I agree with you

Torgo posted...

Many interpret the new covenant as keeping the old laws unless specifically stated otherwise. Do you throw away the Ten Commandments for example?

Will you tell all the other Christians they should toss out the old Testament and everything but the parts of the gospels that make you feel good or they are fake?

It's not "feel good" parts. It's comment sense don't hate people and stone them. The parts of the gospel I go off is anything that Jesus has said. That's what I follow. The ten commandments don't mention homosexuality. The old testament is a history lesson in what was before Jesus, it was how things were until Jesus came to correct it. Jesus said he came to fulfill the old testament, it is completed done with. The new covenant and the way Jesus was is the new testament. There is a reason why it is the old and new. Also yes I do talk to christians about the old testament and Jesus fulfilling it. I have a friend that is very religious and we debate on this all the time. Of course im not a divine prophet so I have no power in changing his mind. While I don't think he is a fake christian he is misguided.

Tora_Sami posted...

No one has, I am not a divine prophet. I go off of the teaching of Jesus Christ, as to be a Christian you are to follow in his path.

The path that YOU interpret, right?

There are a lot of different interpretations that fundamentally disagree with yours. How did you come to realize that yours is the true path and theirs are incorrect?

Look, I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong. I'm not in a position to police your personal relationship with a magical entity you believe in... I just want to know on what authority you get to police the personal relationships with that magical entity for others.

Dark_Arbron posted...

It isnt so much individual Christians, but rather Christian special interest groups that get tax deductions and have political power.

Its a Christian nation which typically does not assert the same force that say some Muslim ones does on all citizens. Before someone makes a stupid reply(inevitable for you guys) think before you do.

Oh_Boy_ posted...

Its a Christian nation which typically does not assert the same force that say some Muslim ones does on all citizens. Before someone makes a stupid reply(inevitable for you guys) think before you do.

We aren't a christian nation.

Torgo posted...

The path that YOU interpret, right?

There are a lot of different interpretations that fundamentally disagree with yours. How did you come to realize that yours is the true path and theirs are incorrect?

Look, I'm not saying your interpretation is wrong. I'm not in a position to police your personal relationship with a magical entity you believe in... I just want to know on what authority you get to police the personal relationships with that magical entity for others.

Like is aid, it's going off of the word of Jesus. Whom does have authority. Whom came to save us from our sins. To fulfill the Covent and brings as a new. Now I don't consider everyone who doesn't follow a fake christian. To be clear, I am mainly talking about the ones that want to deny others rights and freedoms, who want to murder others for not following the bible. Like I said I'm not perfect and my own sin of the sloth is something I battle with. I also put the blame on those who clearly teach hate and bigotry. They not only poison their own beings but they also poison the name of the Lord. Everyone in the world regardless of religion knows how Jesus is and what he wants. But yet some christians just ignore it and go back to the old ways. It's infuriating. But your right, in all honesty I do wrestle with whether I am right or wrong and have many talks with the Lord. But one thing I do know, is that filling your heart with hate is not Christian like, bigotry is hate. Therefore it's wrong.

Oh_Boy_ posted...

Its a Christian nation which typically does not assert the same force that say some Muslim ones does on all citizens. Before someone makes a stupid reply(inevitable for you guys) think before you do.

Where did you come to learn we are a "Christian nation?"

You realize the literal first amendment to the constitutions states there will be no government establishment of a religion, right?

I know conservatives tend to ignore any part of the constitution that isn't the second half of the second amendment, but it's right there... even more precisely written than the well-regulated militia dependent right to bear arms.

Tora_Sami posted...

Like is aid, it's going off of the word of Jesus. Whom does have authority. Whom came to save us from our sins. To fulfill the Covent and brings as a new. Now I don't consider everyone who doesn't follow a fake christian. To be clear, I am mainly talking about the ones that want to deny others rights and freedoms, who want to murder others for not following the bible. Like I said I'm not perfect and my own sin of the sloth is something I battle with. I also put the blame on those who clearly teach hate and bigotry. They not only poison their own beings but they also poison the name of the Lord. Everyone in the world regardless of religion knows how Jesus is and what he wants. But yet some christians just ignore it and go back to the old ways. It's infuriating. But your right, in all honesty I do wrestle with whether I am right or wrong and have many talks with the Lord. But one thing I do know, is that filling your heart with hate is not Christian like, bigotry is hate. Therefore it's wrong.

I sure wish the guy you have the one true, personal, correct interpretation and belief in would come down and straighten out all these clowns pushing bigotry and hate in his name.

Come to think of it, since your guy never comes down to tell us anything, and leaves everything up to the flawed and corruptible words of other humans... I sure wish more "true" Christians who understand that Jesus is all about love and against bigotry would speak out more against those "fake" Christians in our politics and in society.

Unfortunately it seems like they are okay with a lot of the hate and bigotry as long as it's focused away from them, and the judges push for abortion bans and school prayer...

While we wait for Razor to get suspended, lets respond to their bullshit in post 20.

It wasnt Christian groups who fought for civil rights for LGBT Americans. It was those groups that ensured queer people remained oppressed. Christian evangelicals fought against overturning anti-sodomy laws, against gay adoption rights, against marriage equality, against gay people teaching in schools, against gay people serving openly in the military, against trans people using the fucking bathroom, and now against drag queens being able to practice their art freely and trans kids receiving healthcare.

And fuck off with the non-subtle dog whistle that gay men are pedophiles. Its not only the Catholic Church thats been mired in CSA. Its pastors, youth pastors, ministers, preachers, etc. from many many denominations. Both boys and girls have been victimized.

Oh_Boy_ posted...

Its a Christian nation which typically does not assert the same force that say some Muslim ones does on all citizens. Before someone makes a stupid reply(inevitable for you guys) think before you do.

You guys?
Youre one of us.

HairyQueen posted...

While we wait for Razor to get suspended, lets respond to their bullshit in post 20.

It wasnt Christian groups who fought for civil rights for LGBT Americans. It was those groups that ensured queer people remained oppressed. Christian evangelicals fought against overturning anti-sodomy laws, against gay adoption rights, against marriage equality, against gay people teaching in schools, against gay people serving openly in the military, against trans people using the fucking bathroom, and now against drag queens being able to practice their art freely and trans kids receiving healthcare.

And fuck off with the non-subtle dog whistle that gay men are pedophiles. Its not only the Catholic Church thats been mired in CSA. Its pastors, youth pastors, ministers, preachers, etc. from many many denominations. Both boys and girls have been victimized.

Isn't it amazing how they can pretend their religion is pro LGBTQ, while simultaneously pushing the slurs about grooming and pedophiles?

It's like the conservatives that love to bring up that democrats are the party of slavery, and republicans freed the slaves (a century and a half ago) while currently embracing the confederate flag and statues while opposing voting rights.

Torgo posted...

Isn't it amazing how they can pretend their religion is pro LGBTQ, while simultaneously pushing the slurs about grooming and pedophiles?

It's like the conservatives that love to bring up that democrats are the party of slavery, and republicans freed the slaves (a century and a half ago) while currently embracing the confederate flag and statues while opposing voting rights.

Like Trixie said in the OP, you cant use facts and data to prove anything to them because people spouting that bullshit dont care about facts and data.

Bad_Mojo posted...

Like the pepperoni on the pizza is turkey, not pork

Is that turkey Halal though?

LockeMonster posted...

Is that turkey Halal though?

I think so, tbh. I don't know enough to understand, that's above my pay. I do remember my boss having to go and take a class on something like that

Torgo posted...

I sure wish the guy you have the one true, personal, correct interpretation and belief in would come down and straighten out all these clowns pushing bigotry and hate in his name.

Come to think of it, since your guy never comes down to tell us anything, and leaves everything up to the flawed and corruptible words of other humans... I sure wish more "true" Christians who understand that Jesus is all about love and against bigotry would speak out more against those "fake" Christians in our politics and in society.

Unfortunately it seems like they are okay with a lot of the hate and bigotry as long as it's focused away from them, and the judges push for abortion bans and school prayer...

In all honesty, my view of it is. That's the nature of giving us free will. Either we have free will or we don't. We can accept all of the good that does for us and correct the bad ourselves or we lose all the good it brings and the bad it brings. Personally for me, the Armageddon end times stuff could be solved with our free will. I prefer to love GOD because I love GOD, then be forced to love GOD.

It didn't make many posts for us to get a "Be happy you LGBTQ people don't get arrested and executed on sight like in some other countries." We even got a Matt Walsh "the real problem is gay priests" in the same post.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Indeed. Not sure what fantasy land they live in. So-called Christians are absolutely losing their mind because people are doing things "against their religion" in public that in no way affect them.

How is post 20 still up

Bad_Mojo posted...

I don't see Christians get excused from class to go pray by themselves, tbh. I don't see shit talking Christians accused of hate speech.

But no, there isn't a lie here

They get to pray IN class, with everyone either forced to pray their prayer as well... or leave.

hockeybub89 posted...

It didn't make many posts for us to get a "Be happy you LGBTQ people don't get arrested and executed on sight like in some other countries."

The subtext is: "think yourselves real lucky, because that's what we're striving for."

No lies detected.

Says we coddle Christians but Muslims stomp and set fire to a pride flag and nothing is said because people are too afraid to be labeled Islamaphobic

Oh, cool, Razor got banned.

Patriotwolf posted...

Says we coddle Christians but Muslims stomp and set fire to a pride flag and nothing is said because people are too afraid to be labeled Islamaphobic

I don't think that nothing's been said. Surely the whole point of drawing attention to the incident was to hold it up for disapproval, and I've seen people express disapproval of it online.

Patriotwolf posted...

Says we coddle Christians but Muslims stomp and set fire to a pride flag and nothing is said because people are too afraid to be labeled Islamaphobic

But you're not afraid to be islamophobic.

CyricZ posted...

But you're not afraid to be islamophobic.

No one should be

I see the no true Scotsman is in play.

People in denial Christianity has so many interpretations that some of those interpretations make their religion, yes, look bad.