Board 8 > Community Mafia Topic 14 - "Where's the Flavour?" Culinary Studies

(+) Yeah! (+)

There is a scenario where fd/ulti wanted plausible deniability for ulti to have no useful scan.

Doesn't even necessarily need a real redirect.

But i dont think this feels right from FDs side.

Kirby321 posted...

No, FD, you don't get it. If Ctes rolls three Nat 20s in a row, then town auto-wins!

He just has to sacrifice four players in a blood ritual to make it happen. Ctes is playing the long game, you see? And we're just the grumpy old town that wants to ruin the fun he's been having with this role for the past four in-game days. Gosh, we're soooo stupid, aren't we? Haha!

You make me wanna say very not nice things with mockery like this for wanting to hide things that were meant to be hidden.

thank you now let's kill death

Like there are different ways of handling this role and it's rough to sketch a correct way of playing it (though I am sure someone will make the attempt) but you absolutely don't wanna tell the betting part ever.

ctesjbuvf posted...

You guys have ruined completely ruined my fun at point so ere is your f***ing claim. How great that we can't have fun things like this here.

I can bet my reputation. If I win I gain a one use prosty scan if I lose I scan guilty and is seen commiting all kills.

I can bet my vote. If I win I can double vote the next day if I lose I lose the vote.

I can bet my life. If I win I get a gambler vig shot. That means a vig shot I die using if I shoot town. If I lose I also die.

I can bet the aforementioned shot if I have it. If I win I am told a scum member with 100% certainty. If I lose they get the shot (without the restrictions that they die if using it on town).

I bet on the night kill. I have guessed MI/Kirby/Kirby/Blade. I have breadcrumbed all that somewhere. I said 80% luck because no one would have guessed any of these, but it is skill based I guess. With that knowledge out there there is also basically 0% chance we ever get the good benefits given scum can play around it and get 2 for 1 if I ever attempted.

Good f***ing luck solving with all this.

Uh, even if this is all true how are scum at an advantage? You would still be able to bet on the kill?

I still don't like it for flavor reasons, but that is... oddly specific.

Have we seen a role like this before?

MI/Kirby/Kirby were my first three saves so you're essentially claiming a role that never had a chance of doing anything up to this point anyway.

I don't get why it was such a big deal to claim the role its true. The payoff of a prosty scan, which is generally very weak seems.. Weird though.

The vig part is insanely swingy and hard to balance.

So is it strong? Potentially insanely much but also has several ways to kill itself and can easily be played around when forced to claim fully.

I don't like that we have two people claiming they can earn a vig shot

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Uh, even if this is all true how are scum at an advantage? You would still be able to bet on the kill?

Because they choose the thing I bet on of course.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Because they choose the thing I bet on of course.

But they don't know your bet

The vote part is irrelevantly weak

Prosty is a weak scan type for most of the game

The vig part is the real problem. You're claiming the ability to give the scumteam TWO extra kills. That seems completely ridiculous.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I don't like that we have two people claiming they can earn a vig shot

Plus chang controlling a lynch

what was ctes' take on IGCD this game?

is there too much overlap in two vigs

or two "do the thing get the vig shot"

TotallyNotMI posted...

I don't like that we have two people claiming they can earn a vig shot

Well if ya'll hadn't ended day the way you guys did I would be taking care of it right now.

But both vigi shot claims have two huge conditionals.

Meow1000 posted...

MI/Kirby/Kirby were my first three saves so you're essentially claiming a role that never had a chance of doing anything up to this point anyway.

I don't get why it was such a big deal to claim the role its true. The payoff of a prosty scan, which is generally very weak seems.. Weird though.

The vig part is insanely swingy and hard to balance.

Yes, I said somewhere yesterday that your saves were exactly what I would have guessed.

I did ask after n1 if I could guess no kill, which I can.

It's very swingy indeed.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Well if ya'll hadn't ended day the way you guys did I would be taking care of it right now.

I take great offense of being lumped into this 'you guys' I had nothing to do with that

TotallyNotMI posted...

I don't like that we have two people claiming they can earn a vig shot

It's worse

He's claiming he dies if he fires it wrong AND the he fired it on also gets a vig shot.

How the fuck does someone with that power not instantly want to kill IGCD?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Because they choose the thing I bet on of course.

Which changes.. what exactly? Can you think of not unlikely night kills than the ones we've seen so far? Isquen and Sbell were wayyy out in left field. At least MZero can be reasonably explained by his own night action, though it's equally possibly he was directly shot.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I take great offense of being lumped into this 'you guys' I had nothing to do with that

Ok, if those guys hadn't ended the day the way they did I would be taking care of it right now.

IGCD said he needed 3 days at least to get his shot.

I risk my life getting mine and also risk it using mine.

I think they can coexist easily because of the drawbacks. Like most games this role kills itself trying to use it.

Meow1000 posted...

How the fuck does someone with that power not instantly want to kill IGCD?

This is a fair question and why I would be shooting him if I had my shot.

ctesjbuvf posted...

IGCD said he needed 3 days at least to get his shot.

I risk my life getting mine and also risk it using mine.

I think they can coexist easily because of the drawbacks. Like most games this role kills itself trying to use it.

You claimed your role can cause two kills.

There's no way it should coexist with IGCD's.

What was Ctes reaction to IGCD

Meow1000 posted...

I actually think Kirby and MZero targeting Corrik night 2 was the worst action either ever did.

No way does Corrik fire that kill if he's scum.

Trust me, I didn't think Corrik would be the one to deliver the kill, either, but after a whole night of brainstorming, Ben and I couldn't think of anyone as likely to have been scum >_>

Also, Ctes, you had absolutely no reason to be this stubborn about such a volatile role. Good grief. Could you link the specific breadcrumbs you laid out?

It sure is great that we stopped metagaming.

Meow1000 posted...

You claimed your role can cause two kills.

There's no way it should coexist with IGCD's.

What was Ctes reaction to IGCD

I don't even remember him having one. Also if Lopen vanishing was scum(pretty much guaranteed at this point) that would mean scum could potentially have three EK

Kirby321 posted...

Also, Ctes, you had absolutely no reason to be this stubborn about such a volatile role. Good grief. Could you link the specific breadcrumbs you laid out?

I disagree. There is a way bigger chance I get the best benefits if scum doesn't know.

I at least said somewhere yesterday when Blade revealed his protections that it's what I would've guessed.

Btw i said it a long time ago, if Lopen ever comes back without it being explicitly due to the death of a scum, murder it immediately.

Just need to remind people.

I can turn that question around and say you had no reason to know this.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I disagree. There is a way bigger chance I get the best benefits if scum doesn't know.

I at least said somewhere yesterday when Blade revealed his protections that it's what I would've guessed.

How? Scum knowing about this doesn't change anything for you. They are still going to choose a target and you would still have to guess who they are picking.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I should have read everything up until this point though not necessarily in order.

I think Blade is right that SBell and Lopen cannot be paired. I get the points against both, but Taco and Knightz looks unlikely to be paired either imo. If Taco is scum someone who played baseball mafia is certainly on the table. If you wanna lynch either, less to gamble with by lynching Knightz as taunter can perhaps self resolve.

FD feels towny
Death feels towny
Ulti feels towny
Probably some others did too.

##vote: Wallz

Altight then.

I did a quick ISO of ctes and from when he first showed up to when he posted his 'i read everything now' post he said nothing regarding IGCD either way

ctesjbuvf posted...

I disagree. There is a way bigger chance I get the best benefits if scum doesn't know.

I at least said somewhere yesterday when Blade revealed his protections that it's what I would've guessed.

And I disagree with your disagreement. Now that scum knows that you have a role that benefits off of them making predictable kills, they're gonna be hesitant to go after huge, obvious targets like me, Ulti, or Blade.

After the first three nights all ended up as duds, I don't understand why on earth you thought your role was so important and busted that it needed to be hidden like this. You played this role entirely selfishly and wasted half a day insisting on beneficial effects that had no greater than a 1/11 chance of you actually getting them because of it.

But I digress. Your claim is so incredibly specific that I'd find it difficult to fake. ##Unvote

Meow1000 posted...

You claimed your role can cause two kills.

There's no way it should coexist with IGCD's.

What was Ctes reaction to IGCD

I literally just explained what I thought of it in what I quoted.

You don't metagame ever but especially not when this is your role PM. It hasn't won anyone games ever basically.

I remember when Sultan did alcohol mafia there was a gambler shot that killed the user if hit town. Day 1 MZero shot Marth who was town, so they both died. This ended day even. Then next day scum had a hidden vig shot that also ended day. Day 3 town were down 5 people without even having had a chance of lynch, no restrictions on anything. That was a much smaller game. Of course they can coexist. I judge IGCD from his play.

Kirby321 posted...

Your claim is so incredibly specific that I'd find it difficult to fake

Is it? He doesn't ever have to prove anything

ctesjbuvf posted...

I literally just explained what I thought of it in what I quoted.

You don't metagame ever but especially not when this is your role PM. It hasn't won anyone games ever basically.

I remember when Sultan did alcohol mafia there was a gambler shot that killed the user if hit town. Day 1 MZero shot Marth who was town, so they both died. This ended day even. Then next day scum had a hidden vig shot that also ended day. Day 3 town were down 5 people without even having had a chance of lynch, no restrictions on anything. That was a much smaller game. Of course they can coexist. I judge IGCD from his play.

This is a good example of them being in the same game but I do not remember if I played in that game or not so I can't really speak on it.

Kirby321 posted...

And I disagree with your disagreement. Now that scum knows that you have a role that benefits off of them making predictable kills, they're gonna be hesitant to go after huge, obvious targets like me, Ulti, or Blade.

After the first three nights all ended up as duds, I don't understand why on earth you thought your role was so important and busted that it needed to be hidden like this. You played this role entirely selfishly and wasted half a day insisting on beneficial effects that had no greater than a 1/11 chance of you actually getting them because of it.

Yes, they will be hesitant, but that also means I die if I go for the big one "get told a scum member with 100% certainly".

We can agree to disagree I suppose. But if I claim this right away we still spent a fair amount of time metagaming it and also, let's be right. You having this knowledge isn't gonna help you solve really.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

This is a good example of them being in the same game but I do not remember if I played in that game or not so I can't really speak on it.

Does it matter? Anyone can find it in the logs, the only point was that there is precedence in Sultan games of similar situations.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Is it? He doesn't ever have to prove anything

He proved that he can't vote at least. So whether that's his actual role or something else is, there is actually a loss of vote mechanic involved.

The part I don't really understand though, is ctes effectively has to be perfect 2 nights in a row for us to receive a tangible benefit. He would have to guess correctly night 5 to receive something and then actually use the thing successfully night 6, it's so slow

If he can actually bet his life on guessing the NK then I'd say he probably doesn't ever do that, so he would just be a really damn unlikely prosty/double voter.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Does it matter? Anyone can find it in the logs, the only point was that there is precedence in Sultan games of similar situations.

Yea I know, I'm saying it's a fair comparison. Do you remember how many players were in that game?

Not to bitch and moan, but Ctes, I don't understand why you couldn't have just said that you get powered up from predicting the nightkill. You wouldn't have had to explain any of the benefits, just the gambling mechanic. And that probably would've been enough for people to back off.

If anything, you'd draw a shot from scum who would be afraid of your powers. Given your mathematically low chance of getting a correct prediction, this would have been optimal to keep more reliable powers like Cop alive.

Furthermore, scum can't even control who you guess. On the contrary, they'd be more hesitant to make predictable kills because you'd directly benefit from them, and that would force scum to make riskier plays and potentially put themselves in a worse position.

This role did not need to be such a tightly-kept secret during the entire mass claim. If B8 town didn't have a penchant for playing suboptimally at critical moments (exhibit A: Kirby jailing the town Cop), I'd just say this was a botched fake claim and call it a day.

ctesjbuvf posted...

You having this knowledge isn't gonna help you solve really.

It helps us solve by removing you from the PoE. It's that simple.

And I also want to apologize for coming off grumpy probably, I don't really ever get truly angry but that cannot necessarily be seen on text forums. I do fully think town does not benefit from having this knowledge. If it does, it's only because it allowed itself to get so distracted by its own interest in knowing (which is what I would call the selfish thing here honestly). Scum however, definitely benefits from having this knowledge.

Kirby321 posted...

Furthermore, scum can't even control who you guess. On the contrary, they'd be more hesitant to make predictable kills because you'd directly benefit from them, and that would force scum to make riskier plays and potentially put themselves in a worse position.

Scum has already been making unpredictable kills even without this information.

Ctes if you found the conditional so important why didn't you just lie?

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Scum has already been making unpredictable kills even without this information.

Exactly! Not to beat a dead horse, but it makes absolutely zero sense to think scum had even a semblance of an advantage from this role being claimed lol

ctesjbuvf posted...

Scum however, definitely benefits from having this knowledge.

I still don't understand how.