Board 8 > Community Mafia Topic 14 - "Where's the Flavour?" Culinary Studies

(+) Yeah! (+)

ctesjbuvf posted...

Scum however, definitely benefits from having this knowledge.

Literally nothing changes, they still have to kill and you still have to guess.

I'd also like to point out that we have been talking about how town is weak and now we have a town claim of maybe can get a kill but maybe will cause 1-2 town deaths instead

Kirby321 posted...

Not to bitch and moan, but Ctes, I don't understand why you couldn't have just said that you get powered up from predicting the nightkill. You wouldn't have had to explain any of the benefits, just the gambling mechanic. And that probably would've been enough for people to back off.

If anything, you'd draw a shot from scum who would be afraid of your powers. Given your mathematically low chance of getting a correct prediction, this would have been optimal to keep more reliable powers like Cop alive.

Furthermore, scum can't even control who you guess. On the contrary, they'd be more hesitant to make predictable kills because you'd directly benefit from them, and that would force scum to make riskier plays and potentially put themselves in a worse position.

This role did not need to be such a tightly-kept secret during the entire mass claim. If B8 town didn't have a penchant for playing suboptimally at critical moments (exhibit A: Kirby jailing the town Cop), I'd just say this was a botched fake claim and call it a day.

The thing I have said today that I most certain in. There would always be different opinions on how to use this role most efficiently. You explain the best way to try to get a night kill. I tried to play it to get the best power because at some point in most games the night kill starts getting obvious. It is what it is. I stand by my idea and my only doubt in that is that I should have probably foreseen b8s absolute lack of interest in making that possible. Like, today collectively we forgot the other days and just absolutely had to know this.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I'd also like to point out that we have been talking about how town is weak and now we have a town claim of maybe can get a kill but maybe will cause 1-2 town deaths instead

I was just kind of thinking about that because with my shot there is a potential for town to be responsible for 3 of their own deaths + the Lopen banishment, if this is all true I'm thinking there might even be only 1 scum left + an indy? Like how else would you balance that?

IfGodCouldDie posted...

I was just kind of thinking about that because with my shot there is a potential for town to be responsible for 3 of their own deaths + the Lopen banishment, if this is all true I'm thinking there might even be only 1 scum left + an indy? Like how else would you balance that?

You don't. Ctes just isn't town.

Leafeon13N posted...

Ctes if you found the conditional so important why didn't you just lie?

I was getting enough of flavor meta stuff I just bursted it out instead of having to walk around in more fake stuff I'd probably have to explain down the line anyway and discuss again. I couldn't think of a lie that wouldn't require that at some point.

In Ctes' defense, the role can be absolutely insane under the right conditions and in the right hands.

But the same could be said for Jailer and Doctor. All three roles rely on correctly predicting the night kill (or even who delivers the night kill in Jailer's case). And historically, I don't think any of those roles have had success in blocking night kills more than once per game, or at least there are very rare cases of those happening.

So a role that gets heavily punished for betting on stacked odds that B8 has historically never been lucky with is... kinda cruel ngl lol

TotallyNotMI posted...

You don't. Ctes just isn't town.

That's probably most likely because even with what wr have seen 3 mafia and an indy is not enough.

One thing is disagreeing about play and all, but how can some of you not understand the scum benefit here. Let's say we get to a night where there is one town confirm left alive and no roles danegrous to scum alive. They 100% shoot that role if they don't know mine, but not necessarily with the knowledge that town can get things from guessing right.

I checked that game, IGCD, it had 14 players.

ctesjbuvf posted...

One thing is disagreeing about play and all, but how can some of you not understand the scum benefit here. Let's say we get to a night where there is one town confirm left alive and no roles danegrous to scum alive. They 100% shoot that role if they don't know mine, but not necessarily with the knowledge that town can get things from guessing right.

So you'd rather let the confirmed townie die in exchange for a measly prosty scan or a double vote?

Do you not see how absolutely abysmal that exchange is?

I haven't played a lot with MI but he is usually hyped up to be really good and I'm looking at someone doing absolutely nothing but metagaming full time today.

I feel like he was better than that in the latest Suprak game and Lea's Fantasy Novel last year. Rusty scum probably.

Kirby321 posted...

So you'd rather let the confirmed townie die in exchange for a measly prosty scan or a double vote?

Do you not see how absolutely abysmal that exchange is?

No ffs that is when you bet on the good things.

That Suprak game was legit one of my worst games I ever played!

Like please Kirby you cannot think those were the rewards I was speaking of there.

Kirby321 posted...

So you'd rather let the confirmed townie die in exchange for a measly prosty scan or a double vote?

Do you not see how absolutely abysmal that exchange is?

A prosty scan seems absurdly random for how generally weak the role is in the first place.

That comment seems absurdly random at this point tbh

Fortunately we don't have to agree on best play of this role, we can discuss it post game or in dtc perhaps. You got it your way now.

ctesjbuvf posted...

I haven't played a lot with MI but he is usually hyped up to be really good and I'm looking at someone doing absolutely nothing but metagaming full time today.

I feel like he was better than that in the latest Suprak game and Lea's Fantasy Novel last year. Rusty scum probably.

I actually can see the argument that he's overfocused on meta but that claim is so what

Ugh if doubling down on suboptimal play wasn't such an annoyingly towny thing to do, I'd rather lynch Ctes because I wish he was scum now.

When Death asked if Ctes wouldn't even claim even if it got to MyLo, Ctes said "probably, yes [I wouldn't claim]".

If the game gets to MyLo, the game is already over unless town lynches scum. Let's suppose they do. Then Ctes predicts the nightkill and gets a prosty scan.
... Which can't get used until the following night. And there wouldn't even be a following night if town doesn't get yet another correct scum lynch!

Alternatively, he gets a double vote. ... Okay, and? If literally every other power role died so we could get a freaking double vote that would've relied on way too many lucky chances to obtain, I'd be extremely disappointed.

What the actual fuck is this logic
Please tell me he's just lying and that he's scum good grief
I was joking about the sacrificing players for a blood ritual thing, but little did I know, that's actually what Ctes was aiming for
I was even joking about the double Nat 20's and even that was true wtf

Anyway, I do agree about MI. Even Red is pulling his own weight now, leaving behind only one claimed Vanilla I don't feel good about.

##Vote: MI

Kirby I want to have a nice and pleasant conversation but if you use prosty scan or double vote as an example there a third time I will risk breaking rules.

Kirby321 posted...

Ugh if doubling down on suboptimal play wasn't such an annoyingly towny thing to do,

Like this is 100% what I think about you or FD too, but at least cite me correctly.

Kirby321 posted...

Anyway, I do agree about MI. Even Red is pulling his own weight now, leaving behind only one claimed Vanilla I don't feel good about.

There is also Death

IGCD you seem like you are thinking I am scum, so let me ask you. What do you think of Ulti?

I mean MI overmetaing aside it's pretty well fact that Ctes/IGCD/Chang aren't all existing on the same town.

It makes 3 potential EKs in town and 4 EKs in the game (Including what happened to Lopen), and that's before you even factor in that Chang is a glorified day vig.

Chamg takes control of the lynch but isn't really an extra kill.

The others balance themselves out by drawbacks.

Like this would be a good case if all were scum abilities, I don't see why they can't all be town because of similarities.

ctesjbuvf posted...

IGCD you seem like you are thinking I am scum, so let me ask you. What do you think of Ulti?

My confidence in hoping the best players murder scum is waning, but the impasse loop still exists and scum has to keep shooting in hopes to kill town at this point so I'm not overly concerned with him yet.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Chamg takes control of the lynch but isn't really an extra kill.

The others balance themselves out by drawbacks.

Like this would be a good case if all were scum abilities, I don't see why they can't all be town because of similarities.

Because it's way too many EKs to balance.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Chamg takes control of the lynch but isn't really an extra kill.

The others balance themselves out by drawbacks.

Like this would be a good case if all were scum abilities, I don't see why they can't all be town because of similarities.

I do have to agree that Chang isn't really an extra kill, the 4 town deaths(including Lopen) come from me x1, you x2 and what happened to Lopen.

Leafeon13N posted...

If i had to lynch off vibes: ulti/death/ben(fd?)

So bad i wish he was scum: kirby

Hes chang and hes just here: chang

So unexpectedly awful I'm starting to believe he cant do that as scum: MI

WTF is this shit: ctes

We fucked ourselves repeatedly from 10 minutes to day end to now: IGCD

Does this list fill anyone with confidence that Red is trying to lead Town to victory?

So if you think I am scum, what's your theory for my innocent scan from Ulti, which you should believe more than not if you're not concerned with him.

Just lynch me tonight so I can go find out if I was right or not y'all are exhausting

Maybe you'll listen to my thoughts when you know I'm town

(LOL yeah right)

That was not meant to be a leadership post.

Also I just want to say that for all the questions today I didn't want to bother with I had a blast when chang asked me why I just didn't bet better.

Oh and if scum actually does have redirection there is zero guarantee any of these shots that are claimed actually hit their intended target.

PunishedBen posted...

Does this list fill anyone with confidence that Red is trying to lead Town to victory?

Fills me with more confidence than MI's rabbit holes. If Ctes is town, Red ain't lying about the redirect for the cannister of love.

Kirby321 posted...

Fills me with more confidence than MI's rabbit holes. If Ctes is town, Red ain't lying about the redirect for the cannister of love.

Clearly you don't know my rabbit hole because I agree. If ctes is town red isn't lying.

(But ctes isnt)

And I'm honest - you all can kill me. I've given this game so much time and thought and for you all just to shit on me and say I'm bad is pissing me off. It's not worth it.

Kirby321 posted...

Fills me with more confidence than MI's rabbit holes. If Ctes is town, Red ain't lying about the redirect for the cannister of love.

Actually most of MI's "rabbit holes" are structurally sound.

ctesjbuvf posted...

So if you think I am scum, what's your theory for my innocent scan from Ulti, which you should believe more than not if you're not concerned with him.

Honestly that's the part I am really struggling with, I think the idea that you can trade your vote for innocence is the most likely scenario at this moment because the timing of you having your vote back is not filling me with confidence.

TotallyNotMI posted...

And I'm honest - you all can kill me. I've given this game so much time and thought and for you all just to shit on me and say I'm bad is pissing me off. It's not worth it.

Hey, I haven't thought you were bad and I've had a blast having you in a game.

TotallyNotMI posted...

I've given this game so much time and thought and for you all just to s*** on me and say I'm bad is pissing me off.

This is honestly how I have felt today too and I disliked it, so sorry if I have called you bad, I am honestly not sure, I do enjoy playing with you!

But I also think you double down way to much of a very circumstantial theory for it to be something you actually believe. I think the simple answer you mention isn't very simple or has too many holes to spark this confidence.

I am now realizing the two people who are calling me shit the most are both people I think are scum so

I don't think I called you s***.

Who are you calling scum?

Well ya know, if we lynch Death and he is godfather it would prove Ctes is town

Here's what I think - any theories with Ulti as scum in them just dont work for me. We know a weird thing happened at night that caused FD's sperm to go to Red instead of Ctes, the intended target. It seems unlikely to be unlimited use, otherwise they could have used it to snipe kill Ulti nights ago, right? So the most likely explanation is that it is one use, and comes from a scum Jack of All trades. The same one responsible for janitoring/kidnapping Lopen.

So then the question remains, WHY use the swap on Red/Ctes if instead you can just use it to kill Ulti?

Scum would have to think leaving Ulti alive and making him not scan the right person would look worse on Ulti and potentially leave us open to lynching him. But this would have to mean scum was not afraid of Ulti getting a guilty scan last night. How can you bank on swapping Red and leave a potential scum MI open to get scanned? It wouldnt happen

Therefore, scum HAS TO BE: Red + One of the already scanned innocents (Death or Ctes)

Right?!

And i would argue its not Ctes, because then its weird that Ctes is claiming he scanned guilty last night. That goes against what scum's plan would have been to swap Red and Ctes, and make Ulti scan Ctes innocent again. Makes it look like scum didnt know Ctes was going to do this. Unless that's exactly what scum wants us to think, but it looked weird.