Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Thread 4 (Remake)

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DnDer
11/01/23 9:46:22 PM
#251:


FlyEaglesFly24 posted...
The only problem I have with a cease fire is that it doesnt stop the killing of innocent civilians as long as Hamas is around. It just delays it. Weve got documented proof that they plan on doing it again and again until the end of time.

There's also documented proof that Israel will preemptively end a cease fire and attack Palestine under the auspices of, "But hamas will do it first if we don't."

What do you want, then? Because as long as Likud and Netanyahu are in power and around, a cease fire doesn't stop the killing of innocent civilians. We've got documented proof that they plan on doing it again and again until the end of time.

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FlyEaglesFly24
11/01/23 9:52:10 PM
#252:


DnDer posted...
There's also documented proof that Israel will preemptively end a cease fire and attack Palestine under the auspices of, "But hamas will do it first if we don't."

What do you want, then? Because as long as Likud and Netanyahu are in power and around, a cease fire doesn't stop the killing of innocent civilians. We've got documented proof that they plan on doing it again and again until the end of time.

If it makes you feel better, if I was allowed to vote in an Israeli election, (Im not, Im not an Israeli citizen) Id have gone for Yesh Atid myself.

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DnDer
11/01/23 9:56:44 PM
#253:


FlyEaglesFly24 posted...
If it makes you feel better, if I was allowed to vote in an Israeli election, (Im not, Im not an Israeli citizen) Id have gone for Yesh Atid myself.

It would make me feel better if you didn't try to excuse bombing hospitals multiple times to allegedly kill one man.

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FlyEaglesFly24
11/01/23 10:04:19 PM
#254:


DnDer posted...
It would make me feel better if you didn't try to excuse bombing hospitals multiple times to allegedly kill one man.

I am not excusing bombing hospitals. I was pointing out the fantasy and hubris of the position that theres an objective morality that not be breached under any circumstances even if it means allowing your own citizens to die. The choice in Gaza, because of the tactics of the enemy, create a situation that even the laws of nature cant account for, let alone the laws of war.

What this boils down to is that you have two sides, both convinced that the others sole reason for existence is their annihilation. And until both sides can be convinced at the same time otherwise, I just dont know what were supposed to do?

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Antifar
11/01/23 10:15:15 PM
#255:


FlyEaglesFly24 posted...
The choice in Gaza, because of the tactics of the enemy, create a situation that even the laws of nature cant account for, let alone the laws of war.
The laws of war can and do account for it. You just don't like the answer they give.

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Hornezz
11/02/23 2:26:59 AM
#256:


Evidence of Israels unlawful use of white phosphorus in southern Lebanon

The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanons southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023, Amnesty International said today. One attack on the town of Dhayra on 16 October must be investigated as a war crime because it was an indiscriminate attack that injured at least nine civilians and damaged civilian objects, and was therefore unlawful, said the organization.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-u
se-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/

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VFalcone
11/02/23 4:52:22 AM
#257:


Hornezz posted...
Evidence of Israels unlawful use of white phosphorus in southern Lebanon

The Israeli army fired artillery shells containing white phosphorus, an incendiary weapon, in military operations along Lebanons southern border between 10 and 16 October 2023, Amnesty International said today. One attack on the town of Dhayra on 16 October must be investigated as a war crime because it was an indiscriminate attack that injured at least nine civilians and damaged civilian objects, and was therefore unlawful, said the organization.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/10/lebanon-evidence-of-israels-unlawful-u
se-of-white-phosphorus-in-southern-lebanon-as-cross-border-hostilities-escalate/
Hurting or killing any Lebanese citizens will escalate this sooo much further
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punkfanalways
11/02/23 5:01:35 AM
#258:


I was one of the people who agreed Israel had the right, nay, needed to respond to the 7th October attacks but I am completely against some of their more dubious actions since then.

Whats more frightening to me is the complete unconditional support they seem to have and that none of the major powers daring to criticise them for the more egregious acts That have taken place.
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NhojAnec
11/02/23 5:23:04 AM
#259:


punkfanalways posted...
I was one of the people who agreed Israel had the right, nay, needed to respond to the 7th October attacks but I am completely against some of their more dubious actions since then.

Whats more frightening to me is the complete unconditional support they seem to have and that none of the major powers daring to criticise them for the more egregious acts That have taken place.

same

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VFalcone
11/02/23 5:24:17 AM
#260:


  • Videos and pictures arise of IDF soldiers abusing/humiliating Palestinians in West Bank. Source surprisingly from Times of Israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-film-themselves-abusing-humiliating-west-bank-palestinians/
  • Israeli man in West Bank seriously injured after shooting attack from unknown assailant (victim is dead now) https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israeli-seriously-wounded-in-suspected-west-bank-shooting-attack/
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Smashingpmkns
11/02/23 5:33:11 AM
#261:


https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1719752311684071469

Not sure if that's been posted yet.

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NhojAnec
11/02/23 5:43:04 AM
#262:


Smashingpmkns posted...
https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1719752311684071469

Not sure if that's been posted yet.

oh shit, that is fucked up. that is beyond fucked up. the idf is out of control

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Zikten
11/02/23 5:50:20 AM
#263:


That IDF soldier must feel real tough beating up an old peaceful man
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Forty_Niners
11/02/23 6:33:45 AM
#264:


https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/987bf4be.jpg

Ridiculous statistics.

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FlyEaglesFly24
11/02/23 7:15:50 AM
#265:


VFalcone posted...
* Videos and pictures arise of IDF soldiers abusing/humiliating Palestinians in West Bank. Source surprisingly from Times of Israel https://www.timesofisrael.com/idf-soldiers-film-themselves-abusing-humiliating-west-bank-palestinians/

Well, Im tapping out. No excuses for that. Those soldiers need to be in handcuffs.


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darkace77450
11/02/23 7:17:51 AM
#266:


FlyEaglesFly24 posted...
Well, Im tapping out. No excuses for that. Those soldiers need to be in handcuffs.

If they treat their own that way, imagine what they're doing to the people they've labeled "animals".
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UnfairRepresent
11/02/23 7:33:40 AM
#267:


Lesbians in London have replaced hundreds of adverts with stories about gay Palestinians

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a86b38f.jpg

I can't link to the article because the activist group's name is a slur but you can find it if you look it up.

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ZechtAurion
11/02/23 7:35:06 AM
#268:


Look at this shit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/17lrt6b/what_modern_colonialism_looks_like/

Source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sl-Kvvk1oyY
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JuanCarlos1
11/02/23 7:49:22 AM
#269:


Smashingpmkns posted...
https://twitter.com/dancohen3000/status/1719752311684071469

Not sure if that's been posted yet.

Wow. So theyre even willing to silence those who dissent to genocide.

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NhojAnec
11/02/23 7:50:51 AM
#270:


JuanCarlos1 posted...
Wow. So theyre even willing to silence those who dissent to genocide.

those idf soldiers are just as bad as any nazi

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JuanCarlos1
11/02/23 7:51:43 AM
#271:


Forty_Niners posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/987bf4be.jpg

Ridiculous statistics.


Hoooly fuck

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NoMeLx22x
11/02/23 8:55:51 AM
#272:


FlyEaglesFly24 posted...
Well, Im tapping out. No excuses for that. Those soldiers need to be in handcuffs.

It's a feature not a bug.

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YellowSUV
11/02/23 9:14:09 AM
#273:


Forty_Niners posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/987bf4be.jpg

Ridiculous statistics.

I'd take those Ukraine statistics with a grain of salt. There are likely a lot of dead civilians in Russian controlled areas that Russia is trying to hide. There have been mass graves found in some areas that used to be under Russian control.

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IceCreamOnStero
11/02/23 9:15:21 AM
#274:


FlyEaglesFly24 posted...
Well, Im tapping out. No excuses for that. Those soldiers need to be in handcuffs.
Most IDF soldiers should be in handcuffs

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McSame_as_Bush
11/02/23 11:58:20 AM
#275:


https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1719820464930083052?s=20

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Zikten
11/02/23 12:06:31 PM
#276:


McSame_as_Bush posted...
https://twitter.com/yashar/status/1719820464930083052?s=20
So he doesn't know that half the population of Gaza are children?
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punkfanalways
11/02/23 12:19:17 PM
#277:


Zikten posted...
So he doesn't know that half the population of Gaza are children?

Of course he doesn't. Most of these guys don't know much about the things they talk about. It's all ideology with them. Facts be damned.
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VFalcone
11/02/23 1:10:51 PM
#278:


"Gazan Christians taking shelter and praying in a church when an Israeli missile hit nearby. Palestinian Christians are the oldest Christian community in the world" https://streamable.com/hvt74g

That nun in the back has seen and experienced some FAAAR worse shit. To her, it was just Friday.
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name_unknown
11/02/23 3:29:46 PM
#279:


The Israeli military has encircled Gaza City, IDF spokesman says
From CNN's Tamar Michaelis
The Israeli military has completed its encirclement of Gaza City, Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said Thursday.
The Israeli engineering corps is now working to locate and neutralize underground infrastructure, explosives and other threats to allow the IDF to move freely in the area, Hagari said.
Earlier Thursday, Israel Defense Forces chief of staff Lt. Gen. Herzi Halevi said the Israeli military is surrounding Gaza City and "deepening" its operations there.
Our forces are in very significant areas of Gaza City, Halevi said.
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Trumble
11/02/23 3:47:12 PM
#280:


YellowSUV posted...
I'd take those Ukraine statistics with a grain of salt. There are likely a lot of dead civilians in Russian controlled areas that Russia is trying to hide. There have been mass graves found in some areas that used to be under Russian control.
It's quite likely the Ukraine numbers are a bit higher, but even if they're double what those graphics suggested... Compare the date ranges. Nearly two years, vs not even a month.

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Smashingpmkns
11/02/23 6:01:49 PM
#281:


Not sure if I can post it but I just saw a vid of one Hamas soldier destroying two IDF tanks with an explosive and an RPG. Idk why IDF isn't sending infantry with the tanks.

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whitelytning
11/02/23 6:22:22 PM
#282:


Forty_Niners posted...
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/987bf4be.jpg

Ridiculous statistics.


One of these conflicts is taking place in one of the more densely packed places on the planet against a terrorists organization that uses civilians as cover. Obviously, civilian casualties will be higher in that scenario.

To be clear, Israel should not be targeting civilians and Im not defending war crimes, if any have occurred. However, a higher casualty number in Gaza shouldnt really be that surprising.

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MarcyWarcy
11/02/23 7:25:28 PM
#283:




Smashingpmkns posted...
Not sure if I can post it but I just saw a vid of one Hamas soldier destroying two IDF tanks with an explosive and an RPG. Idk why IDF isn't sending infantry with the tanks.

that video is nuts. watching the guy run up and plant the bomb and run back was terrifying

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DnDer
11/02/23 8:03:07 PM
#284:


whitelytning posted...
To be clear, Israel should not be targeting civilians and Im not defending war crimes, if any have occurred.

"If!?"

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falayyou01
11/02/23 10:12:28 PM
#285:


Exactly. Theyve been committing war crimes for nigh on 80 years. Whole countrys founded on war crimes.

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Forty_Niners
11/02/23 10:44:21 PM
#286:


The only good thing about all this, is it's exposing Israel leadership to the world. Netanyahu has cost his country a lot of good will. The sooner they move on from him, the better the country will be in the long run, because as it stands, a majority of under 35 year olds, by a significant margin, do not sympathize with their war crimes, like the elderly do.

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VFalcone
11/02/23 10:44:22 PM
#287:


  • 9,061 Palestinians dead, 22,900 injured (WaPo). Of dead, 3,648 are children (PBS). https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/a-curse-to-be-a-parent-in-gaza-more-than-3600-palestinian-children-killed-in-just-3-weeks-of-war and https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/02/israel-war-hamas-gaza-news-palestine/
  • 134 Palestinians dead in West Bank
  • 20 IDF soldiers dead from combat in Gaza (CNN)
  • Quick 2min 30sec update in video format: https://youtu.be/IhX4mFb5g2g
  • "An airstrike Thursday smashed a residential building to rubble in the Bureij refugee camp several miles south of Gaza City" ~ AP. So that's the 3rd refugee camp strike? https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-2-2023-6a398d4aeba979aef24960efc31eb772
  • "Latest Israeli strikes have killed people sheltering at UN schools in Gaza, relief agency says" https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news-11-02-23/h_4eeb00ccbf43e14fbd27f3234f3838ca
  • Hezbollah strikes 19 Israeli targets as war ramps up at the Israel-Lebanon border. https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231102-lebanon-israel-border-heats-up-ahead-of-speech-by-hezbollah-leader
  • Hezbollah Secretary-general Hassan Nasrallah expected to make heated war speech tomorrow. US threatens that it respond to any declarations of war against Israel with a declaration of war against Iran... https://twitter.com/waleedrikab/status/1720229973427097863
  • US intelligence suggests Syrian president will provide Hezbollah with shitty-ass Russian toy rocket defense system. Likely in anticipation of full-scale war. https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1720206149226557894
US desperately trying to go to war
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MarcyWarcy
11/03/23 12:05:07 AM
#288:


war with iran would be the most unpopular war the US has ever fought. and even if conservatives want it too they will use it to sink biden next year

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Trumble
11/03/23 12:08:10 AM
#289:


Forty_Niners posted...
The only good thing about all this, is it's exposing Israel leadership to the world. Netanyahu has cost his country a lot of good will. The sooner they move on from him, the better the country will be in the long run, because as it stands, a majority of under 35 year olds, by a significant margin, do not sympathize with their war crimes, like the elderly do.
While anyone with half a brain will be glad to see Netanyahu retire to a nice dirty jail cell for the rest of his life, the problem didn't start with him gaining power and won't stop with him losing it. It's very entrenched in Israeli politics and, while I'd love to be proven wrong, I doubt a new leader will do anything beyond at best reducing the intensity of the atrocities. Still an improvement, but only in the same way someone dumping a solid turd on the carpet is better than them spraying diarrhea all over it.

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chaos_knight
11/03/23 12:08:33 AM
#290:


Crazy that Biden, of all US presidents, might get us into the worst quagmire of a war since Vietnam.

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Tora_Sami
11/03/23 12:44:11 AM
#291:


Jeebus, WW3 here we come....

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streamofthesky
11/03/23 12:44:31 AM
#292:


MarcyWarcy posted...
war with iran would be the most unpopular war the US has ever fought. and even if conservatives want it too they will use it to sink biden next year

chaos_knight posted...
Crazy that Biden, of all US presidents, might get us into the worst quagmire of a war since Vietnam.

Biden wouldn't be "getting us into" jack shit.
Iran and Russia are terrorist states and war mongers, itching and begging for conflict in that entire region, and Iran is repeatedly attacking US bases and ships, and arming and encouraging terrorist groups in the region.
Really fucking disturbing that even the left is phrasing this as if it's Biden's fault and feeding into right-wing propaganda.

And it doesn't have to be a quagmire. The US military is EXTREMELY GOOD at fucking shit up. The first several months of Afghanistan and Iraq went fine (for us). It's when we decided to stick around and nation build things truly went to shit.

Just do a fucking reprisal. Bomb the shit out Iran, destroy their military and economy, kill their leaders, dismantle/destroy their nuclear facilities.... tell them, "don't fuck with us anymore or we'll be back and it'll be even worse" and then leave.
Worst case scenario, we set them back at least a decade or so and have to occasionally play "whack a mole" again. Best case scenario, their large youth population doesn't like that their religious leaders dragged them into a war and turned them into a 3rd world shit hole, and they actually chill the fuck out.
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chaos_knight
11/03/23 1:24:38 AM
#293:


Iran is far larger and stronger than Iraq or Afghanistan ever were. I'm sure we can 'fuck shit up' with our military, but it's not going to be quite the cakewalk as one would imagine.

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Bat178
11/03/23 1:25:47 AM
#294:


At least it could weaken Russia in Ukraine by disrupting Iran's production and delivery of missiles and drones.

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Vyrulisse
11/03/23 3:14:19 AM
#295:


chaos_knight posted...
Iran is far larger and stronger than Iraq or Afghanistan ever were. I'm sure we can 'fuck shit up' with our military, but it's not going to be quite the cakewalk as one would imagine.
No it would be nothing. Our air force is unmatched in the world. Like there's literally nothing anyone can do if we decide to start a serious bombing campaign.
Like the other poster said, recent wars only bogged down because we decided to try nation building.

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Zikten
11/03/23 3:40:56 AM
#296:


Vyrulisse posted...
No it would be nothing. Our air force is unmatched in the world. Like there's literally nothing anyone can do if we decide to start a serious bombing campaign.
Like the other poster said, recent wars only bogged down because we decided to try nation building.
Would that even include if we decided to bomb China?
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Trumble
11/03/23 5:09:32 AM
#297:


Zikten posted...
Would that even include if we decided to bomb China?
China wouldn't fare too well at preventing the bombing by direct force against the bombers, but they could almost certianly prevent it by threatening to throw a few of their own bombs of the nuclear variety America's way. Of course, it's extremely unlikely America would try and bomb China in the first place, both for that reason and for economic reasons. I could see America putting boots on the ground if Taiwan was attacked, but only to the extent of defending Taiwan, not invading mainland China.

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Dark_Arbron
11/03/23 5:12:49 AM
#298:


Ive always been led to believe that any kind of standoff over Taiwan would be naval, but I didnt get that take from a military authority so Im open to being educated on the topic.

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ZechtAurion
11/03/23 6:35:12 AM
#299:


https://www.mediaite.com/news/israel-deletes-post-accusing-palestinians-of-faking-their-deaths-in-gaza/

Scraping the barrel are we?
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DnDer
11/03/23 6:50:41 AM
#300:


ZechtAurion posted...
https://www.mediaite.com/news/israel-deletes-post-accusing-palestinians-of-faking-their-deaths-in-gaza/

Scraping the barrel are we?

Marjorie Taylor Greene spreading lies about Sandy Hook bottom of the barrel scraping.

Yeah, we're at that point.

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