Board 8 > transience's video game topic 52: rabbids just wanna have fun

(+) Yeah! (+)

obviously i can't speak for people who deal with mental health issues

so for me, a person who doesn't have those issues, the intent in tackling such a topic is to build empathy with people who do have those issues. that hellblade has AAA-level production value with fairly simple gameplay and half the price of your typical retail release makes me believe that ninja theory wants it to reach a wide audience.

yes, the fact that it's in a fantasy setting with concessions to some video game tropes like combat encounters and puzzle-solving automatically makes it not the most grounded take on mental illness. we do need more video games that show the effects of mental illness in the mundanity of life. we need more stuff like depression quest and actual sunlight.

but that kinda stuff is a hard sell right now for an audience that leans a bit more towards the mainstream, which is the audience that ninja theory is trying to reach with hellblade. maybe the whole concept of making mental illness more "palatable" is already fundamentally questionable!

and yet the game's handling of a particular mental illness is accurate and sensitive enough that maybe it's okay for it to be delivered in a more... digestible(?) manner. if it gets people who might not be aware or are dismissive of how taxing mental illnesses can be to learn this and just be more considerate of such issues, then it's worth some of the design compromises.

the economic space ninja theory is working on with this game is a crucial one too. if it does find commercial success, then this can influence other similarly sized devs and maybe even actual AAA studios to take bolder risks.

i'm optimistic enough to believe that we'll eventually have a true AAA walking simulator with zero combat and spectacle. hellblade's success would just make it happen sooner! seeing neil druckmann praise it already makes me even more positive about that outcome.

and lastly, gonna veer a bit close to spoiler territory here so imma tag this even though it's not anything specific, senua's arc is uplifting and not at all cheap or exploitative with how it reaches its highs and lows. probably doesn't mean as much coming from a dude who has no major mental health issues, but the whole thing just worked for me.
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i have nothing to add because i've not looked into hellblade much at all, only that i'm v. tired and spent a full minute mulling over what a theory of economic space ninjas is
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I think I may check out the PS4 version of Undertale. My main issue with that game was that I didn't like how combat controlled with a keyboard. I'm kinda curious how they handle the stuff at the end too.
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really? I'd rather play that kind of game with a keyboard probably.

that game didn't click with me until close to the end. I'd like to see how they handle it on vita.
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arrow keys can gtfo
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maybe the bullet hell combat will be better with a control stick rather than the arrow keys/wasd
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I'm engaging Hellblade on its own terms. When Hellblade was announced, it was pitched as a AAA indie. The very next piece of information Ninja Theory gave about Hellblade is that it would deal intimately with mental illness. The two dozen developer diaries Ninja Theory put out mostly cover these two topics, its production values and its subject matter. That Hellblade is about mental illness is the very core of its identity. Its sound design, which Ninja Theory goes to great lengths to ensure the player experiences, is predicated on the very idea. The game opens with a long credit sequence you can't ignore, and the names of Ninja Theory's mental health advisors are prominently on display. The game ships with a half-hour featurette on how Ninja Theory came to design their visual metaphor schizophrenia, paranoid type. There are in-game links to mental health resources in numerous countries the game shipped. The intention is clear: Ninja Theory want you to empathize with Senua, to experience what she does, in the ways she does. What I question, again, is to what end.

digiiiiiiiii posted...

it sounds like you're less concerned with what the game actually delivers and more on what people are saying

I think this is a point worth addressing, because what prompted me to read more about Hellblade and watch video of it was what people weren't saying. People talked about how this is a positive portrayal of mental illness. They neglected to offer a baseline. There was no interrogation of the very idea. There was no history of depictions of mental illness in games, no mention of how frequently schizophrenia, paranoid type is representative of all mental illness (particularly in games, thanks to the influence of the sanity meter, but more widely as well), not even a mention about how the very act of playing this game by a person with schizophrenia, paranoid type, or other types of mental illnesses could be triggering. It is taken as given that Hellblade's portrayal of mental illness is good and accurate and it will lead to a wider understanding of and greater empathy with people with mental illness. I think that's incomplete criticism.

TVontheRadio posted...

but that kinda stuff is a hard sell right now for an audience that leans a bit more towards the mainstream, which is the audience that ninja theory is trying to reach with hellblade. maybe the whole concept of making mental illness more "palatable" is already fundamentally questionable!

I don't think so. Look, Hellblade is a game because Ninja Theory is a game developer, and Hellblade is a game about mental illness because Ninja Theory is a developer interested in portraying mental illness in games. It is on the scale it's at because that's the scale Ninja Theory want to work in. This is all very circular, but it is what it is. I accept that. I question how effective this game is at achieving its goals. I cynically wonder if it's achieving anything other than a warm feeling after playing it.

TVontheRadio posted...

i'm optimistic enough to believe that we'll eventually have a true AAA walking simulator with zero combat and spectacle. hellblade's success would just make it happen sooner! seeing neil druckmann praise it already makes me even more positive about that outcome.

This is a good point, and I agree. I would like to see more games operate like Hellblade with less game-y elements, and not have them immediately dismissed.
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TVontheRadio posted...

and lastly, gonna veer a bit close to spoiler territory here so imma tag this even though it's not anything specific, senua's arc is uplifting and not at all cheap or exploitative with how it reaches its highs and lows. probably doesn't mean as much coming from a dude who has no major mental health issues, but the whole thing just worked for me.

It's important to realize that people with mental illnesses are still people... but like, that's very pre-101 stuff.

PumpkinCoach posted...

i have nothing to add because i've not looked into hellblade much at all, only that i'm v. tired and spent a full minute mulling over what a theory of economic space ninjas is

Warframe!
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swery is making a new game
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I like how Undertale handles trophies.


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i think the baseline for portrayal of mental illness in games, at least in the "mainstream space", has already been understood to be very bad with, as you said, stuff like sanity meters from eternal darkness to amnesia to fahrenheit, and just straight-up cartoonish violence in the legion of bad fmv games in the 90's that make out mental illness as something to be just feared and sometimes even "cured". maybe hellblade's not the most nuanced take on mental illness, but at least it elevates the depiction to, as you say, pre-101 levels of understanding instead of the outright negative portrayals that's been rife in the industry.

maybe that there seems to be a lot of people who are only just now realizing how hard and how unavoidable it is to deal with mental illness through this game makes it deserving of some praise. it's kind of an aha moment every time i see someone who is playing the game say how annoying the voices are and that they'd wish they'd shut up! and not to get too real right now, but... i've avoided confronting stuff with my immediate family that touches on something akin to this, and i just learned some things literally today after i visited them. having just beat hellblade yesterday and its story still sticking with me, it's moved me in its own small way to do something more about what my family's going through.

agreed that we should always be demanding more complex takes on sensitive subject matters with video games, that stories tackling them don't stop at "raising awareness". i think hellblade moves a little past that point with where its story goes, but yes, games have to do more. but with how barren the space is past the indie scene in regards to handling these topics, the baby steps hellblade takes is still important in pushing the conversation forward, especially for ignorant babies like me!

i understand if you're at the point where all this is just basic info for you, then yeah, you don't need to play hellblade.

(oh and just to be clear, i'm not a total ignoramus that took mental health issues lightly before hellblade showed me the way i'm just a dude with my own issues, avoiding confrontation to the detriment of my relationships sometimes)
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without getting into personal details, what about Hellblade resonated with you? what made you reframe your thinking?

TVontheRadio posted...

(oh and just to be clear, i'm not a total ignoramus that took mental health issues lightly before hellblade showed me the way i'm just a dude with my own issues, avoiding confrontation to the detriment of my relationships sometimes)

no, you've made good, well-stated points. I hope I didn't insinuate otherwise or appear dismissive.
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I can't explain why but the Undertale trophy thing bugs me for some reason.
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I mean, joke-y trophy lists have been done before. It's kind of stale.
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I mean, a good chunk of the trophies in Undertale are just story checkpoints. Toby didn't event want to have to add them, so I don't really have a problem with this

that may or may not be because it's an easy platinum
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Who could even care about Undertale trophies at all
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you know what's not a joke

sonic mania. it's really really good. 'maybe best sonic game' good.
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the best sonic game is sonic and all-stars racing transformed
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https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/night-trap-25th-anniversary-edition/cid=UP3455-CUSA07957_00-NIGHTTRAPANNI001
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GANON1025 posted...

https://store.playstation.com/#!/en-us/games/night-trap-25th-anniversary-edition/cid=UP3455-CUSA07957_00-NIGHTTRAPANNI001

oh my god
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Good to see Undertale is giving trophies/achievements the exact amount of respect they deserve.

iiicon posted...

without getting into personal details, what about Hellblade resonated with you? what made you reframe your thinking?

just how important it is to have a support system, how having even just one person who is understanding means the world to the one dealing with mental illness, and how you need to keep showing love despite how tiring it can be.

maybe i've drawn more out of it looking back because of personal reasons, but eh, i can't ignore those feelings.

anyway, i beat nioh. well, i got to a credit sequence, but obviously there's more left to the game. it just keeps going! oh yeah it has one thing in common with hellblade - an awful vocal track over the credits. man, that was a weird wrinkle over the feelings i was processing at the end of hellblade haha.
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so, nidhogg 2 is great
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good to hear! will probably never get it for myself though because i don't have anyone to play with locally. best times i had with the first was with a ton of people watching and cheering. circumstances don't allow that anymore!

i'm sure playing online with the better netcode is fun, but i don't think that's for me. think i'll get my fill of it just watching giant bomb.

also, i finally beat nioh for real. didn't change my mind. good game that i hope the inevitable sequel has a more engaging story, or at least more cool levels like the ninja palace one.

got the deluxe edition so i have access to all the dlc, but i think i'll hold off on playing the two that are out till next week. need a break.
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yeah i think nioh is my game of the year, and i've beaten horizon, night in the woods, pyre and a bunch of others this year
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have you played any of the dlc? are they substantial? i mean i did main a dlc weapon type with the odachi for the main game, but i just got access to the actual dlc campaigns.
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Dissidia NT coming out in January here. Am I going to buy a 3rd version of this stupid game?

yes
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i saw that lightning was on the cover
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iiicon posted...

i saw that lightning was on the cover

yes now you need to buy it
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Finished Pyre. I thought that was pretty good, definitely liked it better than Bastion. The final rite was kinda jacked up though, framerate completely tanked - almost to the point of being unplayable. Didn't have any other performance issues up until then so it was very odd.
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I had the same problems with the final Rite too.
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i just finished what remains of edith finch

fuck
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right?
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right.
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I'm enjoying Undertale quite a bit more on console than I did PC. I do think analog control is part of that. The fact that I'm not trying to shotgun the entire game in one afternoon probably helps too.
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What Remains of Edith Finch story rankings (just general which i liked best combined with what hit hardest)

Lewis > Walter > Edith > Barbara > Gregory > Molly > Dawn/Edie > Milton > Calvin > Gus > Sam > Odin

if you need a refresher on which one was which, I've made a list MASSIVE SPOILERS

Molly Finch (Cannot stop eating and becomes a monster, or thinks she does, presumably falls out the window)
Odin Finch (House wreck off the coast of Washington, drowned, becoming the first Finch buried in the family cemetery)
Calvin Finch (Swing)
Barbara Finch (Her scream is famous the masked people who wanted her scream, perhaps killed her or she was killed by Rick. but the comic book presentation was very cool)
Walter Finch (Built bunker after Barbara’s death, was under there for 30 years, hiding from the curse. He decides he wants to live outside, even if confronting the curse. He gets hit by a train immediately upon leaving.)
Sam Finch (Bucked off the cliff while hunting with Dawn, more impactful due to the way Edith feels about not being told about it by Dawn)
Gregory Finch (Baby who drowned in the tub while his mom was arguing with Sam on the phone, really interesting scene with the frog in the bathtub)
Gus Finch (Killed by a storm at a wedding he didn’t want to attend because his father was getting remaried, good sequence with the kite picking up letters and debris.)
Milton Finch (Story told through a flipbook, drew himself into a magical door, never to be seen again. Just disappeared, but the developers have linked him to the King in The Unfished Swan.)
Lewis Finch (One of the most beautifully told stories, and one that is incredibly sad. Mental illness, fantasizes about all kinds of things, determines that his fantasy is the real Lewis and can only live if the actual Lewis is killed.)
Dawn Finch (Dies from a sickness after separating from Edie, believed that the stories about the curse allowed it to exist.)
Edie Finch (Wanted to pass on the stories, was blamed for the curse because the stories made them real, never seen again after Dawn and Edith leave.)
Edith Finch (Dies from childbirth, determined that her child should know what happened to the family, therefore didn’t truly believe, like Walter and Dawn, that the curse was real, or that it wouldn’t matter either way.)


Since I'm late on this, would love to know more thoughts from @SgtSphynx @iiicon @tabiicat42 and others
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had my artist friend play the first episode of life is strange. of course she knew the daguerreotype and recognized most of the photographers brought up. she said she'd totally be friends with max, whom she loves in spite of the spirits within stanning. she's already getting stressed with the choices. bracing for the second episode!

gonna play edith finch later. looking forward to it.
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I'm not sure I have much to add about Edith Finch. I thought it was a vibrant, creative game. The structure helped immensely, not only because it gave each vignette a unique visual style but also because it ensured no story would overstay its welcome. some of the vignettes were stunning. The visual metaphor used for depression in Lewis' story the most affecting moment in game I've played this year.

also how do you sail a house from Norway to the pacific northwest
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iiicon posted...

also how do you sail a house from Norway to the pacific northwest

well you dont, evidently
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finished edith finch

yeah, no big surprise opinion here, lewis' story is the standout. sam, barbara, gregory, and calvin's are also very good. molly's been spoiled for multiple times already, and it was the first one, so it didn't have as much of an impact as i think it would've had i gone into it totally fresh.

gone home had a much more powerful emotional effect on me, but i think i'm just a sucker for more focused, personal stories that get built up over time. this isn't exactly what edith finch is going for, and yeah, it does way more interesting storytelling with the medium. more of a meditation on death. something to ruminate over.

might appreciate it more when i eventually get artist friend to play through it!
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Finished Undertale this morning. Analog control was nice to have, I think it made things a bit easier for me. I still don't think the game is a ton of fun to actually play, but already having knowledge of how to pacify all the enemies made things a bit more tolerable, rather than fumbling around the first time I played the game.

Good port, though. Didn't have any issues with it.
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how did they handle the end? you know what I mean
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Final Fantasy 15 is coming to PC. if you were wondering if it was worth the wait: no.
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I just want to know if the FF15 patch and rollout timeline is longer than the development timeline
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FF15 will probably leave early access a little over a year after it released so I doubt it.
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transience posted...

how did they handle the end? you know what I mean

It just goes to a blank screen for a second then resets the game back to the title screen. It's probably not as high impact at the crash to desktop, but I think it's fine.
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to this day i don't understand what dissidia is
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the hacknet dlc takes that concept to another level and it's awesome
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so who all got snes classics?
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no one
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