Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 129: Harvey Wallbuilder

(+) Yeah! (+)

We have a sneak peak at d's excuse:


https://twitter.com/POLITICO_Steve/status/901208800954376194

This is disingenuous. 24 hours ago, #Harvey was forecast to have winds of 125 mph -- precisely the strength now. https://t.co/DtRiMxReJO? https://t.co/5w8fF081G5

Storm turned Hurricane is getting much bigger and more powerful than projected. Federal Government is on site and ready to respond. Be safe!

So basically, "it's not my fault that bad things happened! No one, not even so called EXPERTS could have predicted this!"
---

Just got a New York Times alert that Trump has officially pardoned Arpaio
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Just got a New York Times alert that Trump has officially pardoned Arpaio

Just saw it on CNN.
---

I mean, by all means go ahead and accept that pardon, Joe. I'm sure a bunch of your victims are licking their chops at the idea of suing you in a civil court since it's admission of guilt on your part.
---

So did he sign all this stuff on a Friday right before a hurricane makes landfall and then leave on another vacation hoping to have this all blow over while he is gone?
---

Oh, but Sebastian Gorka resigned so at least that piece of shit is out of the White House.
---

lordloki12 posted...

So did he sign all this stuff on a Friday right before a hurricane makes landfall and then leave on another vacation hoping to have this all blow over while he is gone?

"Mr. President, it won't literally blow over."
"You don't know that!"
---

I love Friday evenings in the Trump era
---

transience posted...

I love Friday evenings in the Trump era

Unless you're a minority, then it kinda sucks.
---

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Just got a New York Times alert that Trump has officially pardoned Arpaio

This is fucking disgusting

Any Republican member of Congress who isn't willing to, at minimum, censure him is a fucking coward (or worse they agree with him).
---

https://twitter.com/petridishes/status/901236159195389952
---

Literally above the Constitution

He certainly won't hesitate to pardon people in his campaign if he's willing to do this.
---

I understand using the Friday night news dump routine for something that might be embarrassing like the Gorka resignation. But using it for the pardon and the transgender ban basically reads like "I know this is wrong and I know we will get blasted for it but I want to do it anyway". Him leaving again is just him sticking his fingers in his ears as he runs out of the room before anyone can criticize it.
---

God dammit I was wrong. So angry I fucked up
---

What's Gorka gonna do now, go join Breitbart?
---

Concerning the transgender ban, I know it won't happen, but I hope Mattis tells Trump to go fuck himself.
---

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIHYijiXkAABO14?format=jpg&name=large

Excerpt from Gorka's resignation

He writes exactly like an alt-righter
---

https://twitter.com/wwm_shakespeare/status/901238993689481217

Shakespeare Criticizes Trump
---

https://twitter.com/mjs_dc/status/901239732327387138

This is...quite the thread of allegations against Arpaio
---

Jesus Christ.

Jesse Watters are Fox News just argued it's good a hurricane is going to hit Texas because "the clean up will bring people together."

What in the blue hell is wrong with you?
---

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/901188228174184448

Don't worry, Trump is monitoring the "doings" of the Hurricane
---

Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/901188228174184448

Don't worry, Trump is monitoring the "doings" of the Hurricane

It's now a category 4, mind.
---

That's a bad doing
---

Oh hey that SF rally we were talking about earlier got called off too.
---

Jakyl25 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

This probably isn't really a fair thing for which to assign blame to Trump, but of course this would happen:
https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/901197915175010304

That's a very narrow minded look at it. In the long run, people and businesses PULLING OUT of Trump-owned spaces because of his handling of the rally has cost him more

I mean HIS KIDS, its cost HIS KIDS more, he's fully divested, surely! <_<

I know this is kind of throwaway but it does sum up the problem with this whole deal. This is the first mention of this in months. Trump absolutely still has a massive conflict of interest going on, doesn't he? That's still a thing. Nothing has really shown otherwise. Weren't those papers at his press conference (possibly) blank? But it feels like yesterday's news because he dominates the news cycle with other shit.

I hope there are legitimate journalists out there that are single-minded and actually focus on one or two of Trump's problems rather than this non-stop mess of crap so we can actually get some detailed degree of truth.

Haven't heard much about Russia for a while either, for instance. Certainly it's not the big story anymore. Which is unreal - three months ago the former director of the FBI was saying, under oath, that Russian tampering is absolutely a thing (whether Trump was involved or not).
---

To be precise, this came out three months ago today...


5/25/2017
CNN - First on CNN: AG Sessions did not disclose Russia meetings in security clearance form, DOJ says

Attorney General Jeff Sessions did not disclose meetings he had last year with Russian officials when he applied for his security clearance, the Justice Department told CNN Wednesday.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/24/politics/jeff-sessions-russian-officials-meetings/index.html?adkey=bn


...and Sessions has been caught hiding more Russia mettings since then, too.
---

Anyway, today of course deserves a big fuck you to Donald's actions...but considering how big of a Friday dump this is, it's encouraging to see just how hard he has to distract from his other problems. He made a real conteoversial pardon, he doubled down on this transgender ban, and Gorka resigned...that's a lot for one day, even for him.

He's playing defense, not offense.
---

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-daca-idUSKCN1B52KZ

Anyone talk about Trump likely ending DACA?
---

XIII_rocks posted...

Haven't heard much about Russia for a while either, for instance. Certainly it's not the big story anymore. Which is unreal - three months ago the former director of the FBI was saying, under oath, that Russian tampering is absolutely a thing (whether Trump was involved or not).

This is because, unlike Trump's lackeys, Mueller's people don't leak.

There is still a lot of great journalism going on, particularly at WaPo, about Trump's conflicts of interests. Heck it just came out in the last week that the Secret Service is broke because they spend so much money guarding his family, money usually spent at Trump resorts and hotels, naturally.
---

Like, I feel like the fact that we don't hear many peeps out of the Mueller investigation, either about leads drying up OR about progress being made, means he hired serious professionals who care more about getting things done right than anything else.

Whatever their investigation comes up with, or if it even comes up with nothing, I trust that they have exhausted all possible avenues of evidence.
---

As for the other investigation, even in the past few days you had the accounts of that Trump/McConnell call leak, where it's alleged Trump was yelling obscenities at Mitch for not "protecting him" from the Senate investigation.

Presumably that means they've been nosing about in his business, which is good!
---

TheRock1525 posted...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-daca-idUSKCN1B52KZ

Anyone talk about Trump likely ending DACA?

He's gonna get those criminal children! Truly the real bad hombres
---

What the hell were all these deleted posts? Did somebody get mass marked?
---

I deleted a post where I was ranting about a grammatical error in the Arpaio pardon that upon second look was not an error. So that's one
---

TheRock1525 posted...

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-immigration-daca-idUSKCN1B52KZ

Anyone talk about Trump likely ending DACA?

I don't tend to jump much into immigration issues because I don't always fully understand them as well as I want to, but I have an ex-girlfriend on the DACA program who arrived here when she was just one year old and she's a better American than most people I've known in my entire life. It pains me to think about worst-case scenarios with her. I hope this doesn't happen, especially from a New Yorker who ought to know how important the DACA program is to his home.
---

https://twitter.com/phoenixnewtimes/status/901263384087334914

Another thread thoroughly examining and condemning Joe Arpaio's repugnantly twisted idea of law enforcement over the years, by the journalists who were there to witness it.
---

McCain on Arpaio:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/901276851561222144

I don't think he should have acknowledged Trump having any authority to do it (as it undermines the case for, say, censure or impeachment), but otherwise good statement.
---

https://twitter.com/molly_knight/status/901259263539990528
---

LordoftheMorons posted...

McCain on Arpaio:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SenJohnMcCain/status/901276851561222144

I don't think he should have acknowledged Trump having any authority to do it (as it undermines the case for, say, censure or impeachment), but otherwise good statement.

Holy shit look at that top response.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIH6lzrU0AA3WKz?format=jpg&name=large
---

I would say that acknowledging that Trump has the authority is the correct move, because Trump actually does have that authority; he was selected as President by the Electoral College, and has all the powers of that position. Trump should still be censured for it, and impeachment charges against Trump should list this as one of the reasons he is unworthy of the Presidency; it doesn't become moral just because it's legal. But it is legal. And even if Trump were impeached tomorrow, Arpaio would still go free.
---

Well, it's an abuse of the power. For a more clear-cut example, suppose Trump had pardoned himself for Russia stuff. Though there's nothing explicitly forbidding him from doing it, it's clear that that wasn't what the pardon power was designed to do, and I doubt McCain would be saying "this is bad but Trump had the authority to do it." In each case the pardon is undermining rule of law in a way that normal pardons do not.
---

Though there's nothing explicitly forbidding him from doing it, it's clear that that wasn't what the pardon power was designed to do

I would agree that the pardon power was not intended to allow the President to make himself immune to criminal charges, even though the explicit inability to pardon impeachments does kind of address that.

But, I think that "the law says this man's a torturer, but I say he's a hero" actually is the kind of thing the pardon power is intended to cover. That the President, who is supposed to be better informed than the average voter, is genuinely supposed to have authority to say "the criminal conviction of this person does not serve our national interests and I am negating it".
---

It's not just that he did shitty things for which he has expressed no remorse. The unique thing here is that Arpaio was convicted for defying a court order. By pardoning him, Trump is fundamentally undermining the authority of the judicial branch in a way that a normal pardon would not.
---

MalcolmMasher posted...

That the President, who is supposed to be better informed than the average voter, is genuinely supposed to have authority to say "the criminal conviction of this person does not serve our national interests and I am negating it".

Where did voters come in here?

Is the President supposed to be better informed than the judge on the case?
---

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIHsYzvXcAAxZ_z?format=jpg&name=large

yay fox
---

I'm sure this is the case, too:
https://twitter.com/NickKristof/status/901285657380892672
---

The unique thing here is that Arpaio was convicted for defying a court order. By pardoning him, Trump is fundamentally undermining the authority of the judicial branch in a way that a normal pardon would not.

Yes. It's repugnant, reprehensible, grounds for impeachment, and yet within the broad authority to pardon granted to the President by the Constitution.

Edit: It's like... Several scandals ago, I believe there was a tizzy about Trump releasing confidential information to the tragically forgettable Russian ambassador? And it was stated in the contemporary incarnation of this topic, as I recall, that the President can declassify any information he wants, to whoever he wants, for any reason he wants. He has the authority. That doesn't make it okay, but that does make it legal.

Where did voters come in here?

Jury? (I suppose I should have said, "the average citizen.")

Is the President supposed to be better informed than the judge on the case?

Certainly they have the power to be, although not necessarily the time. Though a better case for the pardon power would be something like, "yes this person is a criminal but I can't afford a diplomatic crisis with their home country right now" - the sort of circumstance a judge and jury, who are convened to determine justice and not national interest, should strive to disregard utterly.
---

MalcolmMasher posted...

The unique thing here is that Arpaio was convicted for defying a court order. By pardoning him, Trump is fundamentally undermining the authority of the judicial branch in a way that a normal pardon would not.

Yes. It's repugnant, reprehensible, grounds for impeachment, and yet within the broad authority to pardon granted to the President by the Constitution.

Where did voters come in here?

Jury? (I suppose I should have said, "the average citizen.")

Is the President supposed to be better informed than the judge on the case?

Certainly they have the power to be, although not necessarily the time. Though a better case for the pardon power would be something like, "yes this person is a criminal but I can't afford a diplomatic crisis with their home country right now" - the sort of circumstance a judge and jury, who are convened to determine justice and not national interest, should strive to disregard utterly.

He's far more informed.

He watches Fox News, they told him all about it.
---

Reading the Federalist Papers section regarding the power of Presidential Pardon (#74)

Hamilton believed that Presidents would naturally be very selective in using this power, because

The reflection that the fate of a fellow-creature depended on his sole fiat, would naturally inspire scrupulousness and caution; the dread of being accused of weakness or connivance, would beget equal circumspection, though of a different kind.

I don't think the founders saw Trump coming
---

XIII_rocks posted...

Haven't heard much about Russia for a while either, for instance. Certainly it's not the big story anymore. Which is unreal - three months ago the former director of the FBI was saying, under oath, that Russian tampering is absolutely a thing (whether Trump was involved or not).

I mean, the russia stories are out there:

From today: "Mueler seeks grand jury testimony from PR execs who worked with Manafort"

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/mueller-seeks-grand-jury-testimony-pr-execs-who-worked-manafort-n796066

"Special Counsel Examines Possible Role Flynn Played in Seeking Clinton Emails From Hackers"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/special-counsel-examines-possible-role-flynn-played-in-seeking-clinton-emails-from-hackers-1503694304?tesla=y

From yesterday -- A third attempt at a meeting set up a Trump campaign/Russia connection has surfaced:

http://www.newsweek.com/rick-dearborn-trump-russia-email-654587


But I dunno, even from a few months ago I just didn't comment much about the Russia stuff. Either he's going to get arrested or he's not, and there's not a whole lot that the public can influence.

Stuff like the transgender ban--that as members of the public we can do something about. I'm sure there will be protests. The ACLU is already saying that they will sue. We can pressure congresspeople who might be able to pressure Trump. The Russia stuff is kind-of just completely outside of our ability to influence as members of the public.
---