Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 132: WHAT HAPPENED now available in fantasy sections

(+) Yeah! (+)

The Mana Sword posted...

alex jones says that trump has been being drugged for the past 3 months so maybe vlado is on to something

Wasn't he on drugs during the campaign?
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Corrik posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

https://www.vogue.com/article/hillary-clinton-what-happened-doesnt-have-to-shut-up

The fact that so many people keep telling Hillary Clinton to shut up is super infuriating and is even more evidence of the sexist double standard which plagued her campaign.

(538 had a good discussion about this on their podcast yesterday too)

That is a ridiculous assertion. They want her to shut up because she was a terrible candidate and lost because she was terrible. Nothing more. Has nothing to do with her sex.

So terrible that she's won the popular vote in every election she's ever participated in (including the 2008 primary)

People aren't overwhelmingly telling Bernie, for example, that he should shut up about his book (and he lost to "terrible candidate" Hillary Clinton!). People weren't on net saying that Gore, Kerry, McCain, and Romney had no right to talk about their campaigns.
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In their defense, none of them lost to Trump. Who is quite possibly the worst person to hold the office.
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FFDragon posted...

In their defense, none of them lost to Trump. Who is quite possibly the worst person to hold the office.

Which reflects more on the American people than Hillary to be honest.
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I mean, every election reflects the American people. That's what elections are (supposed to be) for.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I think another big part of the reason that everyone keeps telling her to shut up (and go shut up about any reason for her loss other than her own mistakes) is that if it's totally Hillary's fault everyone else can avoid their share of the blame.

This. She's a good scapegoat. If you can blame Hillary, then you don't have to entertain the notion that a large portion of the country is stupid/racist/sexist/ect, or that the electoral college is busted, or that POTUS is essentially a compromised Russian agent, or...
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://www.vogue.com/article/hillary-clinton-what-happened-doesnt-have-to-shut-up

The fact that so many people keep telling Hillary Clinton to shut up is super infuriating and is even more evidence of the sexist double standard which plagued her campaign.

(538 had a good discussion about this on their podcast yesterday too)

There might be a sexist element, but the most common reason people tell her to go away is because she is so unpopular/ ineffective she managed to lose to the least popular candidate of all time.

She's toxic.
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FFDragon posted...

I mean, every election reflects the American people. That's what elections are (supposed to be) for.

Right but this is the first election where we had an impressively bad candidate in so many ways and yet enough of America said "yeah I want that."

Like Hillary didn't run a good campaign but Trump ran an absolutely awful one and won.
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I'm of the opinion that Trump was actually not that weak of a candidate (which is itself incredibly disturbing, but I think it's true). He got away with shit that no normal politician would have. Can you imagine, for example, Jeb Bush surviving the Access Hollywood tape?

He also was so different from a typical politician that people were willing to take a gamble on him hoping that he would shake things up, even though there was absolutely no reason to think he'd be at all competent. There's a reason he wiped the floor with his GOP primary opponents too (and yes, a big part of it was SFF but still, even in the end he was destroying Cruz and Kasich). Then there was the fact that he was so obviously a joke so he didn't get judged as harshly for his total incompetence as he should have been (not just compared to Clinton, but also compared to his GOP primary opponents). I'd put a decent amount of money on alternate universe Hillary Clinton beating Jeb! or noted porn afficianodo Ted Cruz or maybe even Little Marco.
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Right.

And Hillary offered nothing to change their minds.

Yeah there are other elements in play, but when you lose to that you are an impressively bad candidate.
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FFDragon posted...

Right.

And Hillary offered nothing to change their minds.

Yeah there are other elements in play, but when you lose to that you are an impressively bad candidate.

Probably because Hillary wasn't willing to play the "blame the darkies" card.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

People aren't overwhelmingly telling Bernie, for example, that he should shut up about his book (and he lost to "terrible candidate" Hillary Clinton!).

He has a book about why he lost?

Hillary's issue is exposure then
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LordoftheMorons posted...

I think another big part of the reason that everyone keeps telling her to shut up (and go shut up about any reason for her loss other than her own mistakes) is that if it's totally Hillary's fault everyone else can avoid their share of the blame. Many journalists, for example, screwed up big time by covering Clinton's fucking emails more than all of Trump's scandals put together (presumably because Hillary was "obviously" going to win and Trump was a joke who would implode under his own weight)

I generally agree with this, but I've gotten tired of beating my head against the wall in this topic about it.

I've just accepted that there's seemingly no real value in trying to discuss it here.
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KamikazePotato posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

I think another big part of the reason that everyone keeps telling her to shut up (and go shut up about any reason for her loss other than her own mistakes) is that if it's totally Hillary's fault everyone else can avoid their share of the blame.

This. She's a good scapegoat. If you can blame Hillary, then you don't have to entertain the notion that a large portion of the country is stupid/racist/sexist/ect, or that the electoral college is busted, or that POTUS is essentially a compromised Russian agent, or...

Bingo.

Its SO easy to blame a bunch of little factors that could have swung the election. Its SO easy to say Clinton lost because she just inherently sucks or because shes a woman or the FBI situation.

But at the end of the day, it shouldn't have been close at all, Trump got more votes than Romney did both by raw numbers and as a percentage and if that doesnt scare the shit out of you then I dont know what will.

I guess if deep down you 100% believe that Sanders would have won you don't need to do any soul searchung about how shitty the electorate is - but i think youre setting yourself up to be in a world of hurt when trump doesnt fold the way youre expecting in 2020.
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https://twitter.com/GovMikeHuckabee/status/907677644891848705

huckabee practicing his stand-up routine again
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xp1337 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

I think another big part of the reason that everyone keeps telling her to shut up (and go shut up about any reason for her loss other than her own mistakes) is that if it's totally Hillary's fault everyone else can avoid their share of the blame. Many journalists, for example, screwed up big time by covering Clinton's fucking emails more than all of Trump's scandals put together (presumably because Hillary was "obviously" going to win and Trump was a joke who would implode under his own weight)

I generally agree with this, but I've gotten tired of beating my head against the wall in this topic about it.

I've just accepted that there's seemingly no real value in trying to discuss it here.

Not sure whose counter it was to me that convinced me otherwise, but this topic series did change my mind on whether or not it was "time" to hear Hillary out as a public figure again so there's that. She's definitely entitled to write her book about this experience and I may end up reading it despite my issues with its leaked excerpts.
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i'm not all that convinced by the "hillary was so terrible because she couldn't even beat trump" argument because we have no comparison material. we can't visit an alternative universe to know how other dems would have done.

like, people SAY "biden would have easily won," but do we really know that?
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The Mana Sword posted...

https://twitter.com/GovMikeHuckabee/status/907677644891848705

huckabee practicing his stand-up routine again

So are his routine's responses. First two comments are gold.
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I mean, in retrospect, I think Biden probably wins and would have been the strongest candidate the Democrats could have run from an electoral perspective, but yeah, it's all conjecture. I don't really have any evidence for it.
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These discussions are always weird to me anyway because Hillary won the popular vote by 3 million. The country wanted her more anyway! But, you know, Electoral College.
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/seattle-mayor-ed-murray-resigns-sexual-abuse-claim/

Yikes. Even a cousin.
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HaRRicH posted...

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/seattle-mayor-ed-murray-resigns-sexual-abuse-claim/

Yikes. Even a cousin.

First I've heard of this but Jesus Christ, what a fucking scumbag.
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Fuck

Sadly a large percentage of sexual abuse happens within the family

I hope his victims can get the help they need
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https://twitter.com/donaldjtrumpjr/status/907722624641507331

Dumb RTs run in the family
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Best headline goes to

https://www.mediaite.com/online/ted-cruz-fingers-staffer-for-liking-late-night-porn-tweet/
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People aren't overwhelmingly telling Bernie, for example, that he should shut up about his book (and he lost to "terrible candidate" Hillary Clinton!).

I think we really, really need to get Trump out of the White House. I do not think that giving more camera time to Hillary Clinton will help with this goal. The Democrats need to get independents and "never Trump" Republicans to vote Democrat, and I don't think Hillary Clinton gets many positive responses from either group.

Yes, I think Hillary's campaign "should" have won if it weren't for the timing of the Comey letter, et cetera. Yes, I think that Hillary would have won if she were a man. (Assuming we overlook the issue where Hillary is currently married to a man.) Yes, I think the Electoral College mattering while the net popular vote is purely cosmetic is dumb. Hillary Clinton has a right to speak about these things, and others. And I hope she doesn't, because it seems clear to me that the Republican party has successfully demonized her to the point where her name has become a liability. It's not fair, but life often isn't.
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MalcolmMasher posted...

The Democrats need to get ... "never Trump" Republicans to vote Democrat

I would literally rather run Hillary indefinitely until she wins than do this.
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MalcolmMasher posted...

People aren't overwhelmingly telling Bernie, for example, that he should shut up about his book (and he lost to "terrible candidate" Hillary Clinton!).

I think we really, really need to get Trump out of the White House. I do not think that giving more camera time to Hillary Clinton will help with this goal. The Democrats need to get independents and "never Trump" Republicans to vote Democrat, and I don't think Hillary Clinton gets many positive responses from either group.

Yes, I think Hillary's campaign "should" have won if it weren't for the timing of the Comey letter, et cetera. Yes, I think that Hillary would have won if she were a man. (Assuming we overlook the issue where Hillary is currently married to a man.) Yes, I think the Electoral College mattering while the net popular vote is purely cosmetic is dumb. Hillary Clinton has a right to speak about these things, and others. And I hope she doesn't, because it seems clear to me that the Republican party has successfully demonized her to the point where her name has become a liability. It's not fair, but life often isn't.

100% all of this.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/350194-clinton-i-beat-sanders-in-a-landslide

She did it again, btw.

"He and his followers' attacks on me kept getting more and more personal, despite him asking me not to attack him personally," she said.

"And, you know, I really regret that. But now he's got a chance to prove that he's something other than a spoiler. And that is to help other Democrats. And I don't know if he will or not, but I'm hoping he will."

Can I point out how fucking whack her complaints about Bernie are? "His attacks kept getting more and more personal"?

What personal attacks did he use?

Honestly, Bernie was about 14 bajillion times nicer to her than she was to Obama in 08'.

It's complaints like this that make my eyes roll back in my head.

Please Hillary, just stop. I completely get how frustrated she must be, how surreal it must be to win the popular vote by so much and still lose, but she did.

Be gracious and supportive, you're not helping anybody by saying this shit.
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http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/350290-trump-press-secretary-prosecuting-comey-should-be-looked-at

White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders said at a press briefing Tuesday that it's up to the Justice Department to prosecute Comey, but said the move "should be looked at."

“I think if there was ever a moment where we feelsomeone has broken law,particularly if they are thehead of the FBI, I think that'scertainly something that shouldbe looked at,” Sanders said.

Nothing unusual here, just the executive branch suggesting investigation into perceived political opponents.
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http://www.npr.org/2017/09/12/549430064/transcript-hillary-clinton-s-full-interview-with-npr-s-rachel-martin

okay this is a bit silly

she's all about what ifs (emails, russia, voters rights act) but when asked if another candidate could have beat trump she's all 'doesn't matter, I was the nominee'
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

What personal attacks did he use?

https://gop.com/the-top-15-sanders-attacks-on-clinton/
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StealThisSheen posted...

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

What personal attacks did he use?

https://gop.com/the-top-15-sanders-attacks-on-clinton/

And notice that's a website from the opposition celebrating the attacks

Neither Clinton or Sanders were a saint leading up to the election

Ok but which of those would you consider personal attacks?

Talking about your oppponent's faults is literally what you do in primaries.

Like I said, Hillary said just as bad or worse shit about Obama (and I don't blame her!).

You don't win an election by kissing your opponents ass.
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i wouldn't say "she's not qualified to be president" is a personal attack.

like, if someone said "lasa is not qualified to be a match teacher" i wouldn't take it as a personal attack. it's just a claim that i lack capabilities in a certain field.
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

i wouldn't say "she's not qualified to be president" is a personal attack.

like, if someone said "lasa is not qualified to be a match teacher" i wouldn't take it as a personal attack. it's just a claim that i lack capabilities in a certain field.

"You are not qualified to do the job you are trying to get"
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SupremeZero posted...

"You are not qualified to do the job you are trying to get"

uh yeah, i've been told this plenty of times when applying for jobs. i never took it as a personal attack.
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Yeah that's not really a personal attack.
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I still agree with this quote:
Gore Vidal

Any American who is prepared to run for president should automatically, by definition, be disqualified from ever doing so.

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The implication that Hillary was corrupt because of the Goldman speeches was pretty personal (and untrue). It's also really hard to walk back when you endorse her afterwards.

(And similarly with the Clinton Foundation shit)
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yeah, i do think SOME of the attacks on the list SEP linked to were personal. just not the "she's not qualified" one. nor the "she's inconsistent on $15 minimum wage" one for that matter.
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Well, I didn't say they were all personal.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

The implication that Hillary was corrupt because of the Goldman speeches was pretty personal (and untrue). It's also really hard to walk back when you endorse her afterwards.

(And similarly with the Clinton Foundation shit)

I mean, in multiple interviews afterwards she admitted the Goldman speeches were a bad idea.

I would argue that's less of a personal attack than when she literally implied Obama had ties to terrorists?

https://gop.com/clinton-hit-obama-ties-to-revs-wright-farrakhan-and-terror-group-hamas/

EDIT: StealThisSheen posted...

And notice that's a website from the opposition celebrating the attacks

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I don't know, telling a career civil servant who's held several high level positions in government she's not qualified to be president is pretty damn personal.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

LordoftheMorons posted...

The implication that Hillary was corrupt because of the Goldman speeches was pretty personal (and untrue). It's also really hard to walk back when you endorse her afterwards.

(And similarly with the Clinton Foundation shit)

I mean, in multiple interviews afterwards she admitted the Goldman speeches were a bad idea.

I would argue that's less of a personal attack than when she literally implied Obama had ties to terrorists?

https://gop.com/clinton-hit-obama-ties-to-revs-wright-farrakhan-and-terror-group-hamas/

EDIT: StealThisSheen posted...

And notice that's a website from the opposition celebrating the attacks

Well, are you looking for "personal attacks," or "personal attacks worse than ones on Obama?"

Because that's moving the goalposts a bit.
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It's also pretty personal when nobody gives a shit that Trump isn't qualified to be president

TheRock1525 posted...

I don't know, telling a career civil servant who's held several high level positions in government she's not qualified to be president is pretty damn personal.

Really?

Saying "hey I think your mistakes disqualify you" is personal?

I know I'm all "Bernie defense force" right now, but you can't honestly believe this?

When anyone runs against another person, the implication is "I'm more qualified than you", no? Or else why even run?

Paratroopa1 posted...

It's also pretty personal when nobody gives a shit that Trump isn't qualified to be president

Literally everyone gave a shit about this, especially Bernie.
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

When anyone runs against another person, the implication is "I'm more qualified than you", no? Or else why even run?

"I'm more qualified than you" =/= "You're not qualified," though.
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TheRock1525 posted...

I don't know, telling a career civil servant who's held several high level positions in government she's not qualified to be president is pretty damn personal.

i disagree. i thought i was qualified for some of the jobs people told me i wasn't qualified for too. but my reaction was "your gauging of my capabilities for this job is incorrect," not "you're personally attacking me when you say this."
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Mr Lasastryke posted...

TheRock1525 posted...

I don't know, telling a career civil servant who's held several high level positions in government she's not qualified to be president is pretty damn personal.

i disagree. i thought i was qualified for some of the jobs people told me i wasn't qualified for too. but my reaction was "your gauging of my capabilities for this job is incorrect," not "you're personally attacking me when you say this."

I kinda get where Rock's coming from, though. Being in politics/government is basically something she has dedicated a ton of her professional life to, and she's held many positions. It stings a bit more in a case like that, I imagine, since... She actually was qualified, so it's more of a "Well, you're qualified, but I think you'd be a sucky president" jab.
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I didn't look at the exact quote but I'd say there's a huge difference between saying someone is disqualified and someone is not qualified.
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