Board 8 > Smash Bros Ultimate General Discussion 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

Anagram posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I find this especially interesting given that K Rool and Ridley were added, Wolf was brought back, and Ganondorf was (probably) upgraded quite a bit

Villains getting their due in this game seems to be a theme

I think it's just a lucky coincidence rather than a conscious choice by Sakurai. We'll know if more villains show up like, I don't know, Black Shadow and Pokey.

Well, we also got Dark Samus, and Shadow the Hedgehog seems like a likely possibility (no, I don't care that he's stretching it as a 'villain')

I'm not sure what other villain characters would be good adds

Maybe not a conscious choice so much as an inevitable correction of the fact that they'd been ignored up until now, idk.

StartTheMachine posted...

Guys...we can now do Squad Strike battles with match-ups like this:



I hope the new Event Matches have challenges of this sort!

You may as well throw in Pokemon Trainer/Mewtwo
---

He would at least add a mech character, but you're right in that he's an odd choice, which is why I brought him up. Briefly looking at the roster, I'd say the following villains are possible based on a lack of existing villains from the franchise and not being giant flying heads (Andross):
Vaati (kind of obscure)
Sylux (Metroid already got two new characters this gen)
Pokey (from a dead series)
Black Shadow
Kamek
Medusa
Hades
Many FE things
Akuma
Medusa could probably be an easy Palutena echo, Akuma a Ryu echo, and Black Shadow a CF echo, but otherwise I think we've seen the last villains we're going to get.
---

And maaaaaybe Skull Kid
---

I would pair Pikachu/Mewtwo instead, just feels more right

Given how much people hate having FE characters added and the fact that we officially know now that Ridley is not Too Big, part of me wants to see Medeus added just for the reactions it would get <_<
---

I'm glad they finally gave Ganondorf his sword, but I wish they had just fully de-cloned him and then basically given Black Shadow his moveset. Whether or not he could still be considered an echo of Captain Falcon in that case, I'm not sure, but I've thought since Brawl days that would be a cool solution.
---

Paratroopa1 posted...

I would pair Pikachu/Mewtwo instead, just feels more right

also, was surprised that they weren't included in that montage before DK

the only one of the original 8 missing then would have been Yoshi, but his villain is just Bowser again anyway so they should have put him in with Mario imo

Ganondorf really needs a move where he shoots out a projectile that can be hit back and forth

Definite Villains:
Bowser
Bowser Jr.
Ridley
Dark Samus
Ganondorf
King K. Rool
Wolf

Questionable Villains:
Wario
King Dedede
Meta-Knight
Mewtwo

That's 11 out of a roster of 67 sans echoes. Honestly, I think we have everything we really need, though I wouldn't mind Medusa or something.
---

Paratroopa1 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I would pair Pikachu/Mewtwo instead, just feels more right

also, was surprised that they weren't included in that montage before DK

the only one of the original 8 missing then would have been Yoshi, but his villain is just Bowser again anyway so they should have put him in with Mario imo

Isn't Yoshi's biggest enemy Kamek?
---

If Dedede is a questionable villain then Wolf is too, although I always found Star Wolf's attempt at redemption in later games a bit absurd

A FE villain being included would be Black Knight, he's easily the most popular villain in the series and is Ike's direct rival

Not that that will ever happen, because adding another (non-Echo) FE character at this point would cause a shitstorm
---

Anagram posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

I would pair Pikachu/Mewtwo instead, just feels more right

also, was surprised that they weren't included in that montage before DK

the only one of the original 8 missing then would have been Yoshi, but his villain is just Bowser again anyway so they should have put him in with Mario imo

Isn't Yoshi's biggest enemy Kamek?

I guess

Paratroopa1 posted...

If Dedede is a questionable villain then Wolf is too, although I always found Star Wolf's attempt at redemption in later games a bit absurd

I barely remember anything post-64, and he's a stone villain in that game.

Also, I guess you could find a WarioWare villain, Captain Syrup or something.
---

I mean isn't Wolf basically a mercenary so whoever gives him the most money/advantage is gonna get his support? So yea I'd put him as fairly questionable, more just a rival to Fox than villain
---

Anagram posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

If Dedede is a questionable villain then Wolf is too, although I always found Star Wolf's attempt at redemption in later games a bit absurd

I barely remember anything post-64, and he's a stone villain in that game.

Also, I guess you could find a WarioWare villain, Captain Syrup or something.

He's basically a Magus in the rest of the games

Yoshi/Bowser Jr (as a proxy for Baby Bowser)
Kirby/Dedede?
Pikachu/Mewtwo

8 vs 8 OG squad vs villains
---

Paratroopa1 posted...

If Dedede is a questionable villain then Wolf is too, although I always found Star Wolf's attempt at redemption in later games a bit absurd

It actually makes a ton of sense that Wolf would often side with Fox in later games given he's a mercenary. I'd still list him as a villain, but maybe in his own category.

Dedede is a weird case because he was once unquestionably a villain but sorta morphed into a reluctant ally. And yet he still frequently serves as an antagonist, but under control of a supernatural being and not of his own freewill. And yet again, a game released just in the past year has him as the main antagonist under his own freewill.
---

Man, now I'm remembering stuff about post-SF64 games, thanks a lot para.

I remember Andrew dying in five seconds, Fox riding on Wolf's wing, a million terrible quests on a dinosaur planet, and having to press the A button super fast ala Ocelot's torture game to move a log.
---

Underleveled posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

If Dedede is a questionable villain then Wolf is too, although I always found Star Wolf's attempt at redemption in later games a bit absurd

It actually makes a ton of sense that Wolf would often side with Fox in later games given he's a mercenary. I'd still list him as a villain, but maybe in his own category.

Dedede is a weird case because he was once unquestionably a villain but sorta morphed into a reluctant ally. And yet he still frequently serves as an antagonist, but under control of a supernatural being and not of his own freewill. And yet again, a game released just in the past year has him as the main antagonist under his own freewill.

Dedede is such a weird one because I still clearly sort him as a 'villain character' yet he's far more frequently an ally at this point

He's basically an anti-hero, which is funny, because Meta-Knight is also sort of an anti-hero... I guess? who really knows that guy's deal

Does anyone remember Star Fox Command

I've played it, and even I don't remember it

If Sakurai doesn't mind Fire Emblem Awakening spoilers (and we already know that Intelligent Systems does not), they can make Grima a Robin Echo with a different Final Smash.
---

Paratroopa1 posted...

Underleveled posted...

Paratroopa1 posted...

If Dedede is a questionable villain then Wolf is too, although I always found Star Wolf's attempt at redemption in later games a bit absurd

It actually makes a ton of sense that Wolf would often side with Fox in later games given he's a mercenary. I'd still list him as a villain, but maybe in his own category.

Dedede is a weird case because he was once unquestionably a villain but sorta morphed into a reluctant ally. And yet he still frequently serves as an antagonist, but under control of a supernatural being and not of his own freewill. And yet again, a game released just in the past year has him as the main antagonist under his own freewill.

Dedede is such a weird one because I still clearly sort him as a 'villain character' yet he's far more frequently an ally at this point

He's basically an anti-hero, which is funny, because Meta-Knight is also sort of an anti-hero... I guess? who really knows that guy's deal

Adding even more to the confusion... (Subspace Emissary spoilers being marked because this is a Smash topic) He was a double agent pretending to work for the villains but actually the only one in the entire story who figured out what was going on and secretly helping the heroes
---

Speaking of spoiler characters, would anyone else be hyped for playable Demise or is that just me?

I don't think I've ever heard anyone even mention it, probably because Skyward Sword isn't exactly revered by most of the fanbase, but it is legit my favorite Zelda ever and Demise is the fucking man. Edit: Come to think of it, more people would probably want Ghirahim over Demise....disgusting.
---

It would be great if the new story mode is about a force mind controlling the heroes into destroying the world and the villains having to stop them.
---

What new story mode? There is no new story mode.
---

bwburke94 posted...

What new story mode? There is no new story mode.

There's still a mode that's not been revealed yet, but based on the name, there's a decent chance it's a story mode.
---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2_JBzr-Py8" data-time="

Want.

Could just be an echo of Dorf and I'd be so down.
---

All I really want from this game is for the professional scene to legalize the smash meter for tourneys
---

Paratroopa1 posted...

Does anyone remember Star Fox Command

I've played it, and even I don't remember it

Command was weird because it had a bunch of different storylines and timelines (?) I think with like super significant endings for the characters.
I think I remember something about Falco ending up with his own team and maybe there was a monkey kid on it? And Fox and Krystal make babies? ... I think at least one relative of Slippy was in it too doing something.

time to start my Falco's monkey buddy who may only even exist in my mind for Smash Ultimate campaign
---

oh here we go

http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Dash_Bowman

Dash Bowman, the classic character everyone loves. For some reason he joins Falco and Katt in Star Falco.
---

Star Fox Command felt like a fanfic game when it came to those various ridiculous endings. But easily the best one was where the Star Fox crew retired, converted their ships into racing vehicles, and joined an F-Zero like racing league literally called G-Zero.

And now this all may be the true canon ending if Star Fox Grand Prix ever gets confirmed.
---

ninkendo posted...

All I really want from this game is for the professional scene to legalize the smash meter for tourneys

I doubt it'll happen even if Sakurai does nerf all of the final smashes gained from meters. They're really ban-happy.
---

I seriously doubt the Smash team is gonna balance final smashes enough for it to be viable.

They said they're weaker but Marth's still looks like a OHKO
---

Its already been mentioned but the problem is that theyre unblockable.
---

pjbasis posted...

I seriously doubt the Smash team is gonna balance final smashes enough for it to be viable.

They said they're weaker but Marth's still looks like a OHKO

It's a weaker OHKO
---

Yeah so blame sakurai then for why final smashes won't ever be competitive.

The meter thing is brilliant but they're still designed for 5 minute ffa time matches then RIP that shit lmao
---

Well, why don't we have ffa time tournaments? Just for variety at least. Won't be seeing Bayonetta dittos in that format.
---

Grand Kirby posted...

Well, why don't we have ffa time tournaments? Just for variety at least. Won't be seeing Bayonetta dittos in that format.

Large matches require larger stages, and larger stages often have crazy gimmicks or are too large. It's probably possible, but people like seeing displays of skill between individuals rather than groups. FFAs would probably consist of a lot of one person trying to avoid the others and maybe shooting projectiles at them occasionally.
---

If it was timed FFA players would be incentivized to participate to try to get kills
---

The best strategy would always be to swoop in after the others are weakened or wait to attack when they're busy.
---

We should get Stamina tourneys
---

Has there ever been a stamina tourney? I've never heard of one.
---

The only tourney I ever did was Coin

I don't know why, either
---

Tom Bombadil posted...

The only tourney I ever did was Coin

I don't know why, either

Coin was always lame to me.
---

Bonus is where it's at. Don't know why they never brought it back.
---

So what do you think are the odds that Lip from Panel de Pon will be a playable character? Sakurai has said often that he is a big fan of the series and has always wanted to include her as a character. There's always one random old school, long forgotten character included in every game so I wonder who it will be.
---

For SnGs here is the results from everyone's Wants and Predictions:
Wants:
Crono - 3
Banjo/Kazooie - 2
Dixie Kong - 2
Incineroar - 2
Lycanroc Midnight - 2
Artorias the Abysswalker - 1
Banana Dee - 1
Bartender from Tapper - 1
Bub and Bob - 1
Captain Toad - 1
Decidueye - 1
Dillon - 1
Doc - 1
Geno - 1
Goku - 1
HawLucha - 1
Impa - 1
Isabelle - 1
Issac - 1
Jill Valentine - 1
KOS-MOS - 1
Matthew (FE) - 1
Metal Sonic - 1
Morag - 1
Neku - 1
Opoona - 1
Pokemon Trainer Gold - 1
Prinny - 1
Professor Layton - 1
Proto Man - 1
Rex/Pyra - 1
Riki - 1
Sans - 1
Shadow - 1
Skull Kid - 1
Sora - 1
Tora/Poppi - 1

Predict:
Shadow - 9
Incenroar - 6
Rex - 5
Decidueye - 4
Isabelle - 5
Ken - 4
Issac - 3
Pyra - 3
Captain Toad - 2
Paper Mario - 2
"Kirby Character not Banana Dee/Daroach" - 1
Akuma - 1
Big Boss - 1
Bub and Bob - 1
Dixie Kong - 1
Geno - 1
Goku - 1
Impa - 1
Rabbid/Ray Man - 1

We were all over the place with who we wanted lol and we're pretty damn sure Shadow is getting in
---

Yikes
---