Board 8 > Smash Bros Ultimate General Discussion 2

(+) Yeah! (+)

it's an eighth for a game meant to celebrate the history of one of the world's largest gaming companies
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Lopen posted...

Like there is no reason Ike should have a charge B and a counter.

I think it's intentional. The similarities are made that way so that FE characters feel like a bloc despite their differences. Since they are from the same series and all.
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pjbasis posted...

Lopen posted...

Like there is no reason Ike should have a charge B and a counter.

I think it's intentional. The similarities are made that way so that FE characters feel like a bloc despite their differences. Since they are from the same series and all.

It very well may be. It really shouldn't be if you wanna put that many of them in the game though.
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When the only other two series' in Smash that have as many characters as Fire Emblem are Super Mario and Pokemon, yea 8 is alot

And you want MORE?
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Eh disagree. They are actually quite different as you put it.

The similarities helps an FE fan hop between them easily though.
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I guess this isn't a design problem but it look quite a while for Ganondorf to start distancing himself from Captain Falcon.

I think FLUDD on Mario wasn't a popular change as well.

Not huge things and Ganondorf is slowly pulling away.
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I don't really get the big deal about how many Fire Emblem characters there are

For me in terms of how much I care it's kind of a middling series but I don't mind how many reps there are - FE characters both a) have a lot of character development and fan investment and b) make really natural fits as playable fighters in Smash. And it's a long series of games with an almost completely different cast in nearly every game, which no other Nintendo series operates like. All that, COMBINED with the fact that Fire Emblem is experiencing a bit of a renaissance in popularity, and it just really shouldn't be surprising to anyone that it has a lot of reps. This all combined with the fact that they originally replaced Roy with Ike but then they brought everyone back so that means bringing Roy back, who had a lot of fan popularity from Smash alone anyway. There's a ton of factors going into the disproportionate FE rep here!

I think Chrom was a totally unnecessary addition as someone who's a fan of FE:A myself, since Lucina and Robin have it pretty much covered anyway and Chrom is sort of boring and actually pretty unimportant to the story, but I guess a lot of people like him and want him in so I ultimately can't argue with that. I think it's pretty funny that they fulfilled the Lucina/Robin trailer's promise that maybe Chrom would get in next time, haha.

Yeah I just don't think this is something we're going to agree on. Like when I play Ike then play Marth you play them in entirely different ways and that's what matters to me. That's just how I view the game so *shrug*
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pjbasis posted...

The similarities helps an FE fan hop between them easily though.

It's like saying all the Mario characters should have a fireball on their neutral B and a spin thing on their down B so fans can jump between them more easily.

Just give me some archers, mages, axe users, lances that have more wildly different reaches, range games, don't blow half their specials on keeping with a dumb theme, and I support as many FE Characters as possible, but even as one of the biggest Fire Emblem fans you'll find playing Smash I get irritated by a buncha phoned in legendary sword users instead of, even limiting to main characters, more potentially interesting entries like Ephraim Hector Micaiah etc etc
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I think this isn't giving the Smash team enough credit. The content they put into the game is not only faithful but also has historically aligned with fan expectations pretty well. I can't think of any examples of a character's design being badly out of line with what people wanted or expected. Simon is yet another positive example of this, where they got his classic Castlevania look down perfectly instead of going with the more modern, red-haired anime dude look.

You're probably right. I should probably separate Nintendo and Smash.
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Paratroopa1 posted...

I think Chrom was a totally unnecessary addition as someone who's a fan of FE:A myself, since Lucina and Robin have it pretty much covered anyway and Chrom is sort of boring and actually pretty unimportant to the story, but I guess a lot of people like him and want him in so I ultimately can't argue with that. I think it's pretty funny that they fulfilled the Lucina/Robin trailer's promise that maybe Chrom would get in next time, haha.

Chrom got in simply due to fan support and how limited development time it would take to include him. It's sort of ironic that someone like Lyn, who is about as popular as Ike is among the fanbase (there have been polls!) won't be able to get in because it would take too much dev time to make her unique moveset.
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Of course the ironic thing is Chrom is my favorite one of the FE Swordies in the game as a character so I'm not upset he's in (and hell in 4 I used Lucina way more than Marth so way I see it the boring additions are improving the game), just saying I understand why people would be.
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I'm not really sure Intelligent Systems realized how popular Lyn was until this poll last year (Jan 2017):
https://events.fire-emblem-heroes.com/vote/result?overall=1

That may have been too late to try an get her into Smash as a playable character. They certainly know now so it'll be interesting to see if Lyn does get in one day.
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It never gets old that Ike was both the #1 and #5 of the Male side of that poll

Good thing he had enough popularity to secure the top spot anyway despite LFF. Poor Marth.
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I think the thing about Chrom is that he's not just another FE swordsman, he's the third character from his specific game. If you want to talk about how FE deserves a lot of characters because it has a lot of important people in it, then having 3/7 of its roster be from FEA is probably not persuasive.

But then again, Chrom clearly took no effort to include, so eh.
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What I mean to say is that if you want to stake your position on "It's cool if FE gets a million characters because it's a character-based game" then having 4/7 of the characters be from 13-on, and another two be from the most recent games when their Smashes came out, is not a good way to support yourself. It would be one thing if we were getting Lyn and Dorcas or whatever, but it's always a sword lord from a recent game.
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I mean Fire Emblem Awakening as a stand alone game probably has more second string reps an appreciable amount of people are interested in than most other Nintendo series combined. There isn't a ton of depth to say Kirby so even if I would love to see a Waddle Doo character or something, I acknowledge I'm in the minority there.
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I can assure you that the Fire Emblem fanbase has no shortage of people complaining about over representation of FE13+ characters. I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more from older characters as well.
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Lopen posted...

I mean Fire Emblem Awakening as a stand alone game probably has more second string reps an appreciable amount of people are interested in than most other Nintendo series combined. There isn't a ton of depth to say Kirby so even if I would love to see a Waddle Doo character or something, I acknowledge I'm in the minority there.

Sure, but none of them are in the game.
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Like to elaborate a bit I dunno Cherche is probably barely top 20 at best in terms of most popular Awakening characters

But ask a bunch of people who like Fire Emblem and Kirby whether they'd rather have Cherche or whoever the 4th most popular Kirby character is and I bet Cherche wins in a landslide.

Obviously some diversity in FE reps would be better but I'm just saying trying for anything resembling series parity isn't going to make more people happy overall. It just spites FE fans for characters their own fanbases largely don't even care about.

It simply has more characters that people cling to by nature of the games having huge casts where characters are on average more relevant than non mains from other series, never mind the fact the series itself has like 20 games on top of that.
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Lopen posted...

But ask a bunch of people who like Fire Emblem and Kirby whether they'd rather have Cherche or whoever the 4th most popular Kirby character is and I bet Cherche wins in a landslide.

This is just completely untrue.

Bandana Dee is one of the top most requested characters in Japan and pretty highly requested anywhere else.
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Bandana Dee is more requested than the likes of Chrom and he made it in, though echos are definitely easier to make so...
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That only matters for purposes of my example if you have evidence that Fire Emblem fans are requesting that character. That argument is loaded against Fire Emblem too because there are so many beloved characters the pool is way bigger

Like people who have only played Mario games will request Mario characters and then proceed to nearly never play them over the 10 other Mario characters in the game, but hey you got the character you wanted
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I don't see why anyone would care about Chrom being included as an echo, he's not a separate character, he's not taking development time away from another character, he's literally just a quick, easily implemented dude that his fans will like and that doesn't get in the way of anything else. He's there because it takes zero effort to do it. The whole "bringing everyone back" thing means you can't exactly cut any of the others, and with Lucina being rebranded an echo the series is losing representation in terms of "real" characters, albeit by extreme technicality.
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Bandana Waddle Dee is probably the non-echo I would put the most money on being included as a new fighter at this point

I'm not SUPER confident but if I was gonna put my chips in that's where they would go

Lopen posted...

pjbasis posted...

The similarities helps an FE fan hop between them easily though.

It's like saying all the Mario characters should have a fireball on their neutral B and a spin thing on their down B so fans can jump between them more easily.

Just give me some archers, mages, axe users, lances that have more wildly different reaches, range games, don't blow half their specials on keeping with a dumb theme, and I support as many FE Characters as possible, but even as one of the biggest Fire Emblem fans you'll find playing Smash I get irritated by a buncha phoned in legendary sword users instead of, even limiting to main characters, more potentially interesting entries like Ephraim Hector Micaiah etc etc

Yeah this is just picking characters from the new games plus Marth. I don't much about the series so I can't follow you into this argument though.
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Bandana Dee is basically part of the main trio at this point (making it a group of 4). The last few years hes been heavily established as a main character and people not even big fans of the Kirby franchise recognize it and want him as a playable character. He has an incredble amount of support and while I might agree in regards to other characters in the franchise, Bandana Dee is basically the 4th main character now along with Kirby, D3 and Meta Knight.
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The main argument against Bandana Dee is that Sakurai doesn't seem to like putting stuff in from Kirby games he didn't work on. I think all post-Sakurai Kirby has gotten is a couple songs.
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Alright well if you wanna say he's 4 now that's fine-- I've missed a few recent Kirby games, but what I say still applies to the 5th, or Metroid's third, or whatever
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All the more reason why Marx should be the 4th Kirby character.
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Speaking of Kirby characters: I just recently played Super Star for the first time (in the form of Super Star Ultra), and Galacta Knight would be an awesome Meta Knight echo.
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Meta Knight still has his Galacta Knight alt color, so I don't think he'll be an echo.
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inb4 Kirby's only new character is Dark Meta Knight.
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mnkboy907 posted...

inb4 Kirby's only new character is Dark Meta Knight.

Ooof
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Mewtwo59 posted...

Meta Knight still has his Galacta Knight alt color, so I don't think he'll be an echo.

...if anything, that's an indication that he's way more likely. See: Daisy previously being relegated to a Peach skin and the same for Dark Samus! In fact, would this make Galacta Knight the only "unique" alternate skin not yet transformed into an echo?

I guess there's also Dark Link, but jeez, we already have three Links in this game and certainly don't need four >_>
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StartTheMachine posted...

Mewtwo59 posted...

Meta Knight still has his Galacta Knight alt color, so I don't think he'll be an echo.

...if anything, that's an indication that he's way more likely. See: Daisy previously being relegated to a Peach skin and the same for Dark Samus! In fact, would this make Galacta Knight the only "unique" alternate skin not yet transformed into an echo?

I guess there's also Dark Link, but jeez, we already have three Links in this game and certainly don't need four >_>

Yeah, but Peach lost her Daisy color, Ike lost his Chrom color and Samus lost her Dark Samus color. Meta Knight still has his, so going by the others it would seem like Galacta Knight won't be an echo.
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Mewtwo59 posted...

StartTheMachine posted...

Mewtwo59 posted...

Meta Knight still has his Galacta Knight alt color, so I don't think he'll be an echo.

...if anything, that's an indication that he's way more likely. See: Daisy previously being relegated to a Peach skin and the same for Dark Samus! In fact, would this make Galacta Knight the only "unique" alternate skin not yet transformed into an echo?

I guess there's also Dark Link, but jeez, we already have three Links in this game and certainly don't need four >_>

Yeah, but Peach lost her Daisy color, Ike lost his Chrom color and Samus lost her Dark Samus color. Meta Knight still has his, so going by the others it would seem like Galacta Knight won't be an echo.

Ahhh, okay, I didn't know this. That's a shame then.
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We need Dark Link, Fierce Deity Link, CD-i Link, Japanese commercial rap-dancing Link...
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WhiteLens posted...

All the more reason why Marx should be the 4th Kirby character.

I think this would be cool too but I'm essentially a Kirby "genwunner" who barely knows anything about the series after Super Star. >_>
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Can't wait for the Dark Samus, Dark Link, Dark Pit, Shadow Mario, Dark Meta Knight match in Event Mode
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Fierce Deity Link is already happening in the next Direct where Young Link has to beat Skull Kid and goes Fierce Deity as his Final Smash
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Oh hey, while we're talking about Kirby:

I think Zero from Dreamland 3 is going to be in the game as a boss. On the Smash site's Assist Trophy page, Zero is listed as Zero (Mega Man). none of the other ATs have a similar parenthetical, so I think this means they're trying to differentiate him from a different Zero who is also in the game, and Kirby Zero is the only one that makes sense probably.

thank you for reading my pointless theory
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It obviously means Zero (Metal Gear)
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Could also be Zero (999).
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or the next third-party Square character is from Drakengard 3
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Zero from the nightmare before Christmas.
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Which would you rather have:
- Snake's codecs
- Palutena's guidance
- Fox getting advice from the rest of Team Star Fox
- Samus emotionlessly reading files on everyone ala Other M
- Pokedex readings of every character
- Squid Sisters talking about everyone
- Cranky Kong complaining about how everyone's moves are too modern, except for Mr. G&W and Pac-Man
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Sanke or Pokedex
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Zigzagoon posted...

Fierce Deity Link is already happening in the next Direct where Young Link has to beat Skull Kid and goes Fierce Deity as his Final Smash

Fierce Deity Link is...actually the perfect final smash for Young Link! Of course, it would just be a short cutscene attack bit since no transformational final smashes are in this game, but I would be all about this.

So, I found these videos on the history of Smash character selections all super interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKmR8TM3fkE" data-time="

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3rhSIkW3FU" data-time="

How did I never know that Banjo Kazooie and James freakin' Bond were once considered as playable characters for Melee?
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I'm excited about the echofighters

like, Chrom having a mix and match moveset means the possibilities are endless now.

Hell, even characters in the first smash had borrowed moves, Jiggilypuff and kirby, Falcon and Samus

Ganondorf was a Falcon clone on top of that. when the hell did he ever fight with his fists?

Echo fighters might not have to be even related to the characters they're echoing

and the fact they can combine them

I just hope they get creative with it
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