Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 457: Ticket Sales are Experiencing a Super Slow-Down

(+) Yeah! (+)

StealThisSheen posted...

That's a piss poor example that I ignored because the example you're using is referring to one person. In what world does judging one person based on a tweet they made seem like a good example to counter using something one person did to attack a completely different individual?

The "stick" in that example is Stephanie's own tweet. Stephanie's tweet -> Stephanie obviously isn't a huge leap.

The "stick" in what we're discussing is Brie's botching. Brie's botches -> Nikki

Not the same thing at all.

But that misses the point. If you want, ignore the example and focus on the rest of the post.

I anticipate and know this thing is going to happen. This thing is a bit unfair, but does actually have a silver lining and leads to a discussion I feel has been missing for the last few years.

It comes down solely to me seeing the silver lining of other people's irrationality. Is that such a bad thing? Because that's literally all it is.

I believe if I'd phrased it like that, and not in the very aggressive way I did yesterday, this argument never would have happened. So that's on me. But I can't understand how knowing and accepting the way people talk and accentuating the positive of that is "dumb".
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You've literally gone full Corrik and I just can't anymore so have fun with Lopen I guess
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Well I was happy to finish a while back ("There. Done. I've filled the topic up too much"), but Lopen kept coming back for more, so whatever

It seems a shame to end it here though because the walls of text have come way down and we're finally at the real heart of the matter. Feel like we're a couple of posts away from reaching a kind of understanding if not an agreement.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

No dammit, I want to talk about my thing now. We've spent days on Brie Bella.

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I missed that. What did you want to talk about, Scarlet?
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If it helps, I don't think you're a crackpot or anything

I just can't tell if you're purposely being obtuse or not, but you're completely missing the point of why people found what you were saying dumb to begin with and would rather argue against them as if there's some objective fact for why it can't be seen as dumb, instead of just accepting what people are saying and that... You said something dumb and then double dumbed down on it.
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XIII_rocks posted...

I didn't bring Nikki into this to attack her for Brie's botch. I brought her into this to mention how Brie's botch might lead to them being attacked as a pair by others and how I'm fine with that. They're two separate things entirely, so you can take back that "backpedal" accusation anytime you want.

XIII_rocks posted...

RE Brie: I don't like hounding her over these errors, but I'm at least glad that they are getting people to rail against her (and, by extension) her sister, who are both incompetent relics who have been totally surpassed by the current crop.

Lopen posted...

No one who knows what they're talking about has ever actually said that about Brie though. Nikki doesn't deserve it just because people can't separate the two.

Your initial post which says "I don't like hounding BRIE" for these errors (why not?) and then brings up being glad about Nikki being railed against, followed by my rebuttal, followed by you doubling down on how bad Nikki is. You didn't bring Nikki into the argument to attack her for Brie's botch, okay, technicality sure whatever, but you did bring her into the argument to attack her. That much should be clear otherwise the argument should stop at you agreeing that Nikki doesn't deserve to be attacked for Brie's botch, but that it likely happening would be a silver lining, rather than doubling down on how bad Nikki is and going into a tirade about how Brie's actions affect Nikki and vice versa etc etc.

Honestly though as long as we're ahead of the defense of me misunderstanding you I don't really care to argue with you on this as I just don't really take your mindset seriously. Full stop that's what it is for me and most people in here. And the main reason it's embarrassing is you think your mindset should be respected. It's fine to have a guilty pleasure, dude.
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I'm joking again. It's just funny how much vitriol we have about such a non-entity worker.

But I wanted to bitch about how bad LU is now.
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NBIceman posted...

Saw Athena work a TON on the indies since she was primarily based in Texas. It's hard for me to definitively say how good I think she is because her stuff ranged from legitimate greatness to some of the worst matches I've seen in my entire life. She is heavily, heavily dependent on the quality of her opponent in my eyes.

I never really got into Heidi Lovelace. She's one of those wrestlers that everyone has where you recognize they have talent to a varying extent but just don't connect with you. So, again, hard to judge.

Gosh yeah Ember is night and day on fucking everything she does. With Sasha she is a dangerous non-worker. With Asuka she looks like a million bucks.

Her aesthetic not matching her persona at all is what fucking murders her though.

She's cosplay chick. That might be her real personality and like...cool if so. I'd definitely hang out with her. But as a wrestling character it leaves a lot to be desired.
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I know you're just joking, but I'm actually curious. I don't want to talk about Brie anymore either!
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I wanted to bitch about LU sucking.
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Eddv posted...

NBIceman posted...

Saw Athena work a TON on the indies since she was primarily based in Texas. It's hard for me to definitively say how good I think she is because her stuff ranged from legitimate greatness to some of the worst matches I've seen in my entire life. She is heavily, heavily dependent on the quality of her opponent in my eyes.

I never really got into Heidi Lovelace. She's one of those wrestlers that everyone has where you recognize they have talent to a varying extent but just don't connect with you. So, again, hard to judge.

Gosh yeah Ember is night and day on fucking everything she does.

Her aesthetic not matching her persona at all is what fucking murders her though.

She's cosplay chick. That might be her real personality and like...cool if so. I'd definitely hang out with her. But as a wrestling character it leaves a lot to be desired.

It doesnt help that they have done literally nothing on the main roster with her

Like astonishingly little

She just exists. Even the Ascension STARTED with an angle
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I wanted to bitch about LU sucking.

Well, I'm certainly ALWAYS in favor of that!
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It's been so sooo bad lately.

Like, they have just completely lost the thread.

And like the gringo:lucha ratio has gone way way too far in favor of the gringos now, which to me kills the appeal.

Its basically just a 2nd hour of impact but with worse writing. All their best workers do impact now anyway which contributes to this admittedly. The only thing its good for is good intergender matches but like Jordynne Grace is moving the needle on that all by herself and she doesnt even do LU.
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Eddv posted...

And like the gringo:lucha ratio has gone way way too far in favor of the gringos now, which to me kills the appeal.

Not even just gringos. Guys who can't work the style at all now. Mundo and Evans worked well in the style, but these new people... like why bring in Tommy Dreamer?
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Eddv posted...

And like the gringo:lucha ratio has gone way way too far in favor of the gringos now, which to me kills the appeal.

Not even just gringos. Guys who can't work the style at all now. Mundo and Evans worked well in the style, but these new people... like why bring in Tommy Dreamer?

Mundo and Evans are at least veterans of the AAA scene.

As was someone like Angelico I believe. And MDogg at least made a legit effort to match the style.

Swagger and London and Ryan much MUCH less so and yeah Tommy fucking dreamer?
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I imagine the "why" behind Dreamer is that he probably did it for, like, eight dollars.
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Tommy Dreamer god.

Yeah definitely out now. I'd rather just leave the memories alone I think.
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Eddv posted...

Swagger and London and Ryan much MUCH less so and yeah Tommy fucking dreamer?

Killer Kross is the one that really kills it for me. I see no value in his appearance in LU.
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StealThisSheen posted...

If it helps, I don't think you're a crackpot or anything

I just can't tell if you're purposely being obtuse or not, but you're completely missing the point of why people found what you were saying dumb to begin with and would rather argue against them as if there's some objective fact for why it can't be seen as dumb, instead of just accepting what people are saying and that... You said something dumb and then double dumbed down on it.

But like, you still haven't actually explained why it's dumb. In fact you've avoided doing so thus far. You deflected my example but not my main point. I've said like four times that "OK, this is the crux of the matter" or "OK, if this is what it comes down to, let's talk about that" and all this other stuff. I feel like after all this time, all that's left is a proper explanation of what makes it dumb. I could be convinced to accept your explanation even, depending on what it is. But there needs to actually be one?

There's two possibilities:

1) You think I'm lying or "backpedalling" when I say "it comes down solely to me seeing the silver lining of other people's irrationality". If so, prove it. What have I said that tells you I'm doing anything other than that? What do you think I'm actually doing? What language would you use to describe it?
2) You think "seeing [or "celebrating" as you put it earlier I think] the silver lining of other people's irrationality" is still a dumb thing to do. If so, how?

Or I guess a third possibility I haven't considered, sure. But you have both said many times now that the truly dumb thing was me celebrating the fact that Nikki will be tarred with that brush. OK, fine. I've disputed it and asked for you to clarify exactly why that is dumb.
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For me the big thing has been Swagger. He works it EXACTLY like hes back in WWE.

If I wanted more fucking WWE I would watch it!
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Eddv posted...

For me the big thing has been Swagger. He works it EXACTLY like hes back in WWE.

If I wanted more fucking WWE I would watch it!

Swagger is definitely what has tipped the scales for me on the roster. When Drago and Aerostar have to work a safe, boring match, I just don't get the point of watching anymore. Even in Impact they get to work better matches than the one they worked with Swagger. Slow, plodding, boring... that's not the role of those guys.
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but you did bring her into the argument to attack her

No I didn't. The "relics" bit was an explanation of why I was glad people might rail against them. I was not attacking, I was explaining.

That's also a pretty big technicality to dismiss - the whole concept centres around Brie's botch being the catalyst for discussion. So if you accept I didn't do that, you're really bringing up something totally irrelevant.
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*rolls eyes*

Okay dude. People are talking about things so out of respect for them, and I can't believe I'm saying this, I will be the one to stop arguing. You have fun deluding yourself into thinking you didn't earn your ridicule from literally everyone in here, and the whole world just doesn't understand you. I'm exhausted.
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You know what would stop me "deluding myself"? A proper explanation. It's really the one thing you've missed out on doing, though you've been comfortable repeating stuff like "and the whole world just doesn't understand you" ad nauseam.

It's a bit ridiculous to accuse me of being myopic over and over while not handing me the appropriate glasses. You just said you don't take my mindset seriously and that you don't respect it and what have you and again failed to explain exactly why it's so bad. SEP came close but really only attacked a supplemental example while not touching the point itself. I didn't even bother defending the example (and I could have) because, like you, I'm pretty tired. But before I'm done I would like to understand precisely what I've done wrong rather than just be told "you're being dumb" over and over again.
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I am more hype for a SEP/Lopen VS XIII/Mystery Partner tag match than I am for any actual real wrestling match tbh
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SEP and Lopen as a team feels like Raw filler for the PPV singles match we're building to.
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Mystery Partner is a huge draw dude
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Nick
Get in here
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Panthera posted...

Mystery Partner is a huge draw dude

You should be Mystery PANTHER
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Well that was a glorious 6 posts of non-wwe talk guys lets get together next month and do it again
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Jakyl25 posted...

Panthera posted...

Mystery Partner is a huge draw dude

You should be Mystery PANTHER

Don't spoil my next angle bro!
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Here's some non-WWE talk.

What does everybody think of the whole CHAOS implosion in NJPW? Hostile takeover with White at the helm instead of Okada? Some kind of 50-50 split? White forming a whole new faction and leaving Okada with CHAOS?
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I think Jay and Gedo will claim the name but most of the others will stick together under a new label
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I can't see Ishii going against Okada.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

I can't see Ishii going against Okada.

That's what I thought too, but apparently the story they're telling is that Okada hasn't talked to Ishii yet, even though they've got a main event tag match in a couple days. (Oh yeah, by the way, the Fighting Spirit Unleashed card quietly looks really really good).

One of the first things White was talking about when he came back and joined CHAOS was how it was dumb that Ishii never got a match against Okada after beating him in the G1. They could go with the idea that White got it in Ishii's head that he was being treated unfairly.

I don't think I expect that to happen, but it also won't altogether surprise me if there's a big twist angle at the end of FSU.
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That would be kinda lame for 2 US shows in a row to end in essentially the same angle
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I agree. I definitely hope it doesn't happen.
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I think I could see Jay/Gedo/Ishii splitting from Okada.

Okada at this point is held more back by CHAOS than helped by it.
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https://twitter.com/FLWrestlingFan/status/1045850155495362561?s=19

What a wonderful pop.
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man what a downgrade for Cesaro.
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I can actually see Dreamer fitting if they were really pushing the illegal underground wrestling stuff and Dario's love of violence could certainly fit with Dreamer. Basically a wild card that gets brought in and just wants a fight.

But it sounds like they aren't doing anything with Dario or the underground stuff.
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Maniac64 posted...

Dario's

I'm afraid I've got some bad news.
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Eddv posted...

man what a downgrade for Cesaro.

Imagine not being excited for a KOW reunion.
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scarletspeed7 posted...

Maniac64 posted...

Dario's

I'm afraid I've got some bad news.

Yeah I caught that earlier.
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NBIceman posted...

Eddv posted...

man what a downgrade for Cesaro.

Imagine not being excited for a KOW reunion.

I've been pretty bullish on disliking Hero for like...forever.
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I know, I'm just giving you a hard time because I've never understood that.
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I never saw him while he was "good" back in the late oughts and I have never thought he was any good in his Kassius Ohno forme.
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Oh, for some reason I was thinking you'd disliked him even in his prime. Must have you confused with someone else.
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Did we talk about Evolution appearing on Smackdown 1000?