Board 8 > All-Purpose Wrestling Topic 457: Ticket Sales are Experiencing a Super Slow-Down

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scarletspeed7
09/26/18 5:44:04 PM
#152:


I think a better comparison is that Owen Hart is the only one to blame for his death because if you work long enough with Vince Russo, you KNOW he'll try to drop you from the rafters with a bungee cord.
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Lopen
09/26/18 5:46:33 PM
#153:


TheRock1525 posted...
Its more like "I have a brake leak but I'll keep driving my car because it hasn't completely leaked out yet."


I agree it's just like if someone had a brake leak and got t-boned by a guy running a red light into them. They shouldn't have been driving with leaky brakes!
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TheRock1525
09/26/18 5:47:00 PM
#154:


Because if that's a standard spot for Paige (and considering they did the same spot before with no problem a few days earliet) then they were just waiting for the inevitable.

If it's not Sasha, its Bayley. Or Asuka. Or Charlotte. Because Paige would have kept calling for it until it happens.
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TheRock1525
09/26/18 5:49:32 PM
#155:


Lopen posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
Its more like "I have a brake leak but I'll keep driving my car because it hasn't completely leaked out yet."


I agree it's just like if someone had a brake leak and got t-boned by a guy running a red light into them. They shouldn't have been driving with leaky brakes!


Except this is a spot Paige has called repeatedly and would be done by a million other girls.

It's funny that I now have to defend Sasha when I was one of her biggest earliest critics and everyone was lapping her up at her most dangerous (back in NXT). Now that she's on the main roster and has only one real injury to her credit (Emma) everyone hates her. Whatever.
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Lopen
09/26/18 5:50:41 PM
#156:


Bayley, Asuka, and Charlotte don't have stupid enough spots to call for that could cause that damage, nor are they sloppy enough to botch it like that if it happened.

Like you can say "Paige called the spot" all you want but I don't think Paige called "okay kick me full force in the back of the head at this point during my taunt so I get violently thrown to the ground." There are ways to do that spot safely if you don't suck. Paige calling for it was poor judgment on her part, but more because she called for Sasha to do it. Should've watched more Sasha tapes before putting your livelihood in her hands like that.
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TheRock1525
09/26/18 5:52:07 PM
#157:


XIII_rocks posted...
You can't be serious with that comparison


People are just being dumb.

There's a bunch of things Sasha's done wrong but Paige's retirement is not one of them.

The fact that Jason Jordan isn't back wrestling just goes to show the WWE knows they got things wrong with Paige and aren't gonna make the same mistake.
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TheRock1525
09/26/18 5:54:59 PM
#158:


Lopen posted...
Bayley, Asuka, and Charlotte don't have stupid enough spots to call for that could cause that damage


The spot was called by Paige so that after working her opponent in the corner, she turns around, does her "this is my house" yell while the opponent kicks her in the back.

This was not a Sasha spot. It was a Paige spot. Like how everyone needs to swing wildly for Cena's protoplex or everyone suddenly learned a back body drop against Ric Flair.

Charlotte would have kicked her in the back of the head.
Asuka would have kicked her in the back of the head.
Bayley would have kicked her in the back of the head.
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PrivateBiscuit1
09/26/18 5:57:54 PM
#159:


TheRock1525 posted...
PAIGE HERSELF LITERALLY SAYS SHE CALLED THE SPOT.

She's been wrestling since she was 14, she's the vet in the ring, she tells Sasha to do a spot. That's absolutely 100% on her.

The only thing I'm going to add to this discussion is that even if Paige is a veteran in the ring, she admits to defying doctor's orders to train for wrestling and has all around been a really fucking stupid person.

It's probably not right to say she makes good decisions and knows better.
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Lopen
09/26/18 5:58:29 PM
#160:


Like I would agree with you that "it would happen eventually" if a spot that looked harmless is what killed her

Or if I regularly saw women on the roster doing spots that looked similarly potentially damaging to the neck

Like if Paige was regularly wrestling in some hardcore Joshi crap where she was taking tiger suplexes onto her head every match, sure.

It's WWE, though. It's relatively safe outside of botches. Particularly in the women's division. Paige kept with safe opponents could possibly have another 10 years because it would never get tested in that way.
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TheRock1525
09/26/18 5:59:46 PM
#161:


PrivateBiscuit1 posted...
TheRock1525 posted...
PAIGE HERSELF LITERALLY SAYS SHE CALLED THE SPOT.

She's been wrestling since she was 14, she's the vet in the ring, she tells Sasha to do a spot. That's absolutely 100% on her.

The only thing I'm going to add to this discussion is that even if Paige is a veteran in the ring, she admits to defying doctor's orders to train for wrestling and has all around been a really fucking stupid person.

It's probably not right to say she makes good decisions and knows better.


Doesn't that just support my point? Paige did a dumb and had to retire. That should be a pretty straight forward discussion.
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Lopen
09/26/18 5:59:56 PM
#162:


Although if you're saying "that's a spot she does every match" (I don't remember her doing that spot in every match aside from the ones with Sasha) then I would probably put it on the agents before Sasha, true.
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PrestonStarry2
09/26/18 6:02:35 PM
#163:


Brie Bella is 35 years old and makes more money than any girl on the roster, and she injures Liv Morgan like that.

What a sloot.

No amount of money will ever change a person.
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ShatteredElysium
09/26/18 7:58:31 PM
#164:


The Paige spot is generally pretty safe. The only reason it was unsafe for her was because her body was no longer strong enough to take it. She defied doctors orders and thought she would be fine. If Sasha does that to anyone else, there's very likely no injury.

That is absolutely on Paige because I doubt Paige told Sasha the extent of her injuries if she was stupid enough to think it was still a good idea for her to take bumps like that.

That is 100% on Paige for being her bad judgment which has unfortunatley been a recurring theme with her.
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Lopen
09/26/18 8:14:17 PM
#165:


Well it's unsafe in general the way it was done it just actually matters for someone with neck problems and is unlikely to matter for those who don't. But again as I said so is a Tiger Suplex. But I'm not saying don't use Tiger Suplexes because they're dangerous in the general case, cause they're not.

Thing is you know a Tiger Suplex is something to be avoided against someone who has neck problems, just straight up. You don't know that kick is because done properly it's actually not even against someone who has them. That's kinda the problem there and why you can blame the problem with the spot on a Sasha botch. That it's something that can be botched like that means it's a bad idea in general if it was indeed something Paige was doing every match (still not sure on this? The whole kicking thing in that style kinda plays to Sasha's wheelhouse), but you know.
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ShatteredElysium
09/26/18 8:20:58 PM
#166:


Paige literally says it is her fault and not Sasha's.

"Nothing was ever Sasha's fault," Paige began. "She got so much backlash and even in the ring and we were in there, people are chanting 'Sasha sucks' and it really upset me to hear that because it wasn't her fault.

The thing is with me, right, that move where she kicks me in the back, I had taken that so many times previously that I was so stubborn and I thought 'I can still do these kind of things' and I thought my neck was just as strong as it was before, but, unfortunately, it's not.

So I called this move and I told her to do it and so she did it, and unfortunately, my neck wasn't strong enough and it snapped all the way back and it was essentially the same as having a really bad car crash - the whiplash was."

Paige added, "But Sasha was there the whole entire time. She did not want to leave my side - like literally did not want to leave my side - and she was crying her eyes out. She said 'I'm so sorry' and I'm like 'It's not your fault, none of this is your fault."
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Lopen
09/26/18 8:23:16 PM
#167:


It's Paige's fault for calling the spot and Sasha's fault for doing it poorly. Doesn't matter what Paige says-- her word doesn't mean it was done right. My eyes can see that it wasn't.
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Jakyl25
09/26/18 8:34:49 PM
#168:


Lopen posted...
Bayley, Asuka, and Charlotte don't have stupid enough spots to call for that could cause that damage


Have you seen Charlottes moonsaults to the floor?
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Jakyl25
09/26/18 9:15:09 PM
#169:


https://www.f4wonline.com/sites/www.f4wonline.com/files/u14296/sd_last_10_weeks_9.png

SD retained 93% of Raws audience, which is unusually high, but still had poor viewership overall

52 weeks left on USA!
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Jakyl25
09/26/18 9:20:49 PM
#170:


Also its amazing to me that Raw has managed to lose 700,000 viewers, a full quarter of its audience, just since the night after Summerslam
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ScareChan
09/26/18 9:22:01 PM
#171:


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davidponte
09/26/18 9:25:39 PM
#172:


ScareChan posted...
'nfl'


Monday night's game was particularly exciting, too.
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Jakyl25
09/26/18 9:32:59 PM
#173:


Ive never really bought that as an excuse. A reason, sure.

But if youre admitting as a company that you cant script entertainment more compelling than a legitimate sporting event, thats admitting you suck
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Panthera
09/26/18 9:38:11 PM
#174:


It's obviously the fault of the fans. Don't you know people pay the big money to see shows they hate solely so they can ruin it for everyone else? If the fans would just shut the fuck up already and stop chanting for people who aren't being pushed and quit complaining on the internet, the WWE would be putting up Attitude Era ratings easy!
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davidponte
09/26/18 10:03:33 PM
#175:


Jakyl25 posted...
But if youre admitting as a company that you cant script entertainment more compelling than a legitimate sporting event, thats admitting you suck


"Legitimate sporting event" likely takes all ten spots of my top ten most compelling nights of entertainment. I don't think it's a given that a scripted event should be more entertaining than a sporting event.
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Jakyl25
09/26/18 10:05:42 PM
#176:


davidponte posted...
Jakyl25 posted...
But if youre admitting as a company that you cant script entertainment more compelling than a legitimate sporting event, thats admitting you suck


"Legitimate sporting event" likely takes all ten spots of my top ten most compelling nights of entertainment. I don't think it's a given that a scripted event should be more entertaining than a sporting event.


Yeah but how many of the LEAST compelling nights of entertainment do sporting events occupy?

Pittsburgh vs Tampa Bay wasnt the miracle on ice or something
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davidponte
09/27/18 12:00:37 AM
#177:


It didn't feature Roman Reigns, so that was a plus.
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Eddv
09/27/18 12:02:23 AM
#178:


Jakyl25 posted...
Ive never really bought that as an excuse. A reason, sure.

But if youre admitting as a company that you cant script entertainment more compelling than a legitimate sporting event, thats admitting you suck


Plus lets not pretend this was Cowboys vs Giants or a game with playoff implications.
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davidponte
09/27/18 12:05:55 AM
#179:


You all underestimate the power of Fitzmagic, tbh
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RaidenGarai
09/27/18 7:06:57 AM
#180:


Vince will never blame Roman for lack of interest in the product. Its everybody but him.

Did people really start booing him when he took the mic during the Shield promo to start the show? The recap I read mentioned that, and that Braun was still getting better reactions.
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ffmasterjose
09/27/18 7:12:56 AM
#181:


RaidenGarai posted...
Vince will never blame Roman for lack of interest in the product. Its everybody but him.

Did people really start booing him when he took the mic during the Shield promo to start the show? The recap I read mentioned that, and that Braun was still getting better reactions.


Yeah, it was even noticeable on the Hulu version which is heavily edited.. Dean starts off, gets a pop, then Roman opens his mouth to very audible boos. Then Seth eventually starts talking and its cheers again.
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RaidenGarai
09/27/18 7:20:35 AM
#182:


Wow, I didn't think it would actually be that bad.

If Roman is still getting heavy boos while he's with the Shield (and the other two guys are getting good reactions), he really is a lost cause as the top face right now. Too bad the people making the decisions are stubborn and will never admit that they were wrong. Clearly, the only option is going to be turning Dean heel, since that will get Roman the cheers he deserves!

If they do turn Dean heel, I see this as a Charlotte/Becky thing. WWE desperately wants us to cheer for Roman (Charlotte) and boo Dean (Becky), but the audience refuses to cooperate with their backwards booking.
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XIII_rocks
09/27/18 5:09:08 PM
#183:


RE Brie: I don't like hounding her over these errors, but I'm at least glad that they are getting people to rail against her (and, by extension) her sister, who are both incompetent relics who have been totally surpassed by the current crop.

I don't like witch hunts but there's at least the possible upside that the "Bellas have improved and are good now" myth gets exposed and destroyed.
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Lopen
09/27/18 5:13:17 PM
#184:


No one who knows what they're talking about has ever actually said that about Brie though. Nikki doesn't deserve it just because people can't separate the two.
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XIII_rocks
09/27/18 5:14:52 PM
#185:


Nikki is also hot garbage

I don't care to differentiate between them in the same way I don't care to differentiate between Kelly Kelly and fucking Rosa Mendes

Nikki might be better? Sure? I don't really care - she's still an impossible to believe character, a poor actress and a mediocre athlete with poor timing. Wildly incompetent, and WWE convincing anyone that they were worth anything is one of their greatest tricks this century.
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HashtagSEP
09/27/18 5:17:22 PM
#186:


XIII_rocks posted...
I don't like witch hunts but there's at least the possible upside that the "Bellas have improved and are good now" myth gets exposed and destroyed.


How does Brie hurting somebody have literally anything to do with Nikki
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NBIceman
09/27/18 5:17:37 PM
#187:


Things like this are why I love this topic series. I feel like me and XIII hardly agree on anything, but we come together in recognizing that BOTH of the Bellas are bad pro wrestlers.

Wrestling is cool.
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Lopen
09/27/18 5:19:42 PM
#188:


You come together in exposing that you can't get over them as being different because they're twins

Like if you're trying to compare the two to Kelly Kelly and Rosa it's very clear you don't actually pay attention to their matches

If they weren't twins they wouldn't even be considered similar wrestlers at all.
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XIII_rocks
09/27/18 5:20:19 PM
#189:


Everything Brie does affects Nikki and vice versa.

That's the price they pay for promoting their entire brand around their happy genetic accident. They have a show - shows - together, tag together, and generally come as a kind of package deal

Twin magic has its downsides. Don't blame me for that.
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ScareChan
09/27/18 5:20:27 PM
#190:


How do we *know* it was brie
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HashtagSEP
09/27/18 5:20:47 PM
#191:


XIII_rocks posted...
Everything Brie does affects Nikki and vice versa.

That's the price they pay for promoting their entire brand around their happy genetic accident. They have a show - shows - together, tag together, and generally come as a kind of package deal

Twin magic has its downsides. Don't blame me for that.


...Okay, this is a stupid post and I'm sorry I asked.
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NBIceman
09/27/18 5:22:58 PM
#192:


Lopen posted...
You come together in exposing that you can't get over them as being different because they're twins

Like if you're trying to compare the two to Kelly Kelly and Rosa it's very clear you don't actually pay attention to their matches

If they weren't twins they wouldn't even be considered similar wrestlers at all.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that I hate Nikki completely on her own merits? Or lack thereof.
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HashtagSEP
09/27/18 5:23:54 PM
#193:


NBIceman posted...
Lopen posted...
You come together in exposing that you can't get over them as being different because they're twins

Like if you're trying to compare the two to Kelly Kelly and Rosa it's very clear you don't actually pay attention to their matches

If they weren't twins they wouldn't even be considered similar wrestlers at all.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that I hate Nikki completely on her own merits? Or lack thereof.


You might, but XIII literally just admitted he doesn't, atleast!
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TheRock1525
09/27/18 5:24:16 PM
#194:


HashtagSEP posted...
XIII_rocks posted...
Everything Brie does affects Nikki and vice versa.

That's the price they pay for promoting their entire brand around their happy genetic accident. They have a show - shows - together, tag together, and generally come as a kind of package deal

Twin magic has its downsides. Don't blame me for that.


...Okay, this is a stupid post and I'm sorry I asked.


Right there with you.

Nikki and Brie have done plenty to differentiate from each other since their comeback. Brie is still awful but Nikki is solid in the ring. It's hard to name any worthwhile botches by Nikki.
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Tom Bombadil
09/27/18 5:24:31 PM
#195:


L
ike if you're trying to compare the two to Kelly Kelly and Rosa it's very clear you don't actually pay attention to their matches


I mean I don't think that lowly of them and I still space out if they're on
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XIII_rocks
09/27/18 5:25:08 PM
#196:


Explain?

Everything has a downside, no?

I'm not talking about rationality. I'm talking about consensus, which is often irrational. I'm fine with that in this case. If people use this incident to also go after Nikki and put an end to the myth that she's worth any fucking thing, then that's great. I'm not saying it's fair or rational but they co-promote and internally accept that they are a brand between them. When you do that, you must accept the downside - ie, when one of them fucks up, it affects the whole brand.
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scarletspeed7
09/27/18 5:25:59 PM
#197:


Sometimes I forget which one is Akam and which is Rezar.
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HashtagSEP
09/27/18 5:26:42 PM
#198:


XIII_rocks posted...
Explain?


"I refuse to differentiate between two individual people because I'm irrational"

Doesn't really need any further explanation, you cleared it up yourself
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Lopen
09/27/18 5:28:42 PM
#199:


It's hard for me to accept it because

1. You've been grouping them together this entire topic
2. They honestly aren't similar wrestlers by any stretch

I can accept not thinking Nikki Bella is very good. I mean, she's is not that good. But the way you treat them paints a pretty clear picture. You can deny it all you want but you haven't given me much reason to take you seriously on it. You paint the picture of someone who just zones out for all Nikki matches cause "ugh Bella" and move on but the idea that they're of similar quality hasn't been true for years.
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NBIceman
09/27/18 5:29:01 PM
#200:


HashtagSEP posted...
NBIceman posted...
Lopen posted...
You come together in exposing that you can't get over them as being different because they're twins

Like if you're trying to compare the two to Kelly Kelly and Rosa it's very clear you don't actually pay attention to their matches

If they weren't twins they wouldn't even be considered similar wrestlers at all.

Why is it so hard for you to accept that I hate Nikki completely on her own merits? Or lack thereof.


You might, but XIII literally just admitted he doesn't, atleast!

Yeah, I wish I'd waited to say anything until I saw his reasoning...
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TheRock1525
09/27/18 5:29:20 PM
#201:


But like, the whole point of their brand is that they're biological twins but they're also quite different. Total Divas kinda revealed how Brie is a sloppy drunk and Nikki was in a terrible relationship with John Cena. They wear completely different attire, they wrestle completely different styles, hell one has bigger breasts than the other.

They are twins is way, way down on the list now.
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