Poll of the Day > In case you haven't heard, apparently Trump is making up his own fake news now.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6vtviq

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/twitter-agog-over-trump-whopper-californians-rioting-sanctuary-cities_us_5bcbf8f9e4b0d38b5878f3a8

President Donald Trump insisted Saturday at a Nevada campaign rally that Californians are rioting in protest of sanctuary cities.

No one knew what he was talking about.

Twitter was dumbfounded.

Trump also again derided black congresswoman Maxine Waters, a California Democrat, as a low IQ individual, an insult he largely reserves for her and one that others have called racist.

Trump was stumping for Nevada GOP Sen. Dean Heller, and blasted both Waters and Hellers Democratic rival in Novembers election, Rep. Jacky Rosen, for their support of what he termed deadly sanctuary cities municipalities where local officials dont cooperate with federal authorities to deport undocumented immigrants.

A lot of people in California dont want sanctuary cities, Trump said. Theyre rioting now; they wanna get out of their sanctuary cities ... Theyre demanding they be released from sanctuary cities. (Check out the video above.)

No ones rioting in California to escape sanctuary cities.

Stunned Toronto Star reporter Daniel Dale noted in a tweet that Trump is now inventing nonexistent domestic riots.

Ted Westrup, a spokesman for California Gov. Jerry Brown (D), told Dale that Trump and truth have long had a troubled relationship. These comments, frankly, dont merit a response.

Other Twitter users were furious or stunned by Trumps comments, while some expected nothing less from the president. Several tweets checked in from all over California with the exact same report: No riots.

Dont forget about how all the hospitals in Europe are filled to the brim with people that have been stabbed since guns arent easy to get
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Or about that "thing" that happened in Sweden.
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https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/carl-bernstein-trump-preparing-to-call-midterm-elections-illegitimate-if-democrats-take-power
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WastelandCowboy posted...

President Donald Trump insisted Saturday at a Nevada campaign rally that Californians are rioting in protest of sanctuary cities.

They might be hard to hear because it's a Quiet Riot.

WastelandCowboy posted...

Trump also again derided black congresswoman Maxine Waters, a California Democrat, as a low IQ individual, an insult he largely reserves for her and one that others have called racist.

...what?

Mead posted...

Dont forget about how all the hospitals in Europe are filled to the brim with people that have been stabbed since guns arent easy to get

Sounds like they could use knife control.

darkknight109 posted...

Or about that "thing" that happened in Sweden.

Which thing? The 22 y/o woman who was killed by a Somali asylum seeker? The elderly biker who was killed by a grenade? The 8 y/o boy who was killed by a grenade? Any other of the dozens of cases involving grenades? (Seriously, that country needs grenade control!)
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Zeus posted...

WastelandCowboy posted...

President Donald Trump insisted Saturday at a Nevada campaign rally that Californians are rioting in protest of sanctuary cities.

They might be hard to hear because it's a Quiet Riot.

WastelandCowboy posted...

Trump also again derided black congresswoman Maxine Waters, a California Democrat, as a low IQ individual, an insult he largely reserves for her and one that others have called racist.

...what?

Mead posted...

Dont forget about how all the hospitals in Europe are filled to the brim with people that have been stabbed since guns arent easy to get

Sounds like they could use knife control.

darkknight109 posted...

Or about that "thing" that happened in Sweden.

Which thing? The 22 y/o woman who was killed by a Somali asylum seeker? The elderly biker who was killed by a grenade? The 8 y/o boy who was killed by a grenade? Any other of the dozens of cases involving grenades? (Seriously, that country needs grenade control!)

Oh look. Zeus defending Trump, again.

I think it's hilarious that when the media writes their little stories and he calls them for being fake, everyone whines. Yet he posts something informative and the whiners rush to call that fake instead. Such people are truly stupid.

DPsx7 posted...

I think it's hilarious that when the media writes their little stories and he calls them for being fake, everyone whines. Yet he posts something informative and the whiners rush to call that fake instead. Such people are truly stupid.

In which universe is telling lies "informative"?

WastelandCowboy posted...

DPsx7 posted...

I think it's hilarious that when the media writes their little stories and he calls them for being fake, everyone whines. Yet he posts something informative and the whiners rush to call that fake instead. Such people are truly stupid.

In which universe is telling lies "informative"?

That's what the news calls it so they can keep making money. I'd love to see the news removed from TV. It's useless.

WastelandCowboy posted...

Oh look. Zeus defending Trump, again.

That's funny. "Oh look, WastelandCowboy whining about Trump again" was pretty much my first thought on seeing this topic.


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DPsx7 posted...

WastelandCowboy posted...

DPsx7 posted...

I think it's hilarious that when the media writes their little stories and he calls them for being fake, everyone whines. Yet he posts something informative and the whiners rush to call that fake instead. Such people are truly stupid.

In which universe is telling lies "informative"?

That's what the news calls it so they can keep making money. I'd love to see the news removed from TV. It's useless.

News at 11: Keeping our viewers informed of issues relevant to their interests is apparently useless.

Tune in tomorrow when we pack up and close shop live!

It's not really "rioting" but several Californian cities and counties have passed ordinances or filed lawsuits against the state's sanctuary laws.
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WastelandCowboy posted...

DPsx7 posted...

WastelandCowboy posted...

DPsx7 posted...

I think it's hilarious that when the media writes their little stories and he calls them for being fake, everyone whines. Yet he posts something informative and the whiners rush to call that fake instead. Such people are truly stupid.

In which universe is telling lies "informative"?

That's what the news calls it so they can keep making money. I'd love to see the news removed from TV. It's useless.

News at 11: Keeping our viewers informed of issues relevant to their interests is apparently useless.

Tune in tomorrow when we pack up and close shop live!

You're a clown if you think the media has ever given us something of value. I guess that's why you're here having a tantrum about Trump. You're the reason the US needs to trade people TO Mexico.

Zeus posted...

Which thing? The 22 y/o woman who was killed by a Somali asylum seeker? The elderly biker who was killed by a grenade? The 8 y/o boy who was killed by a grenade? Any other of the dozens of cases involving grenades? (Seriously, that country needs grenade control!)

None of the above.

Trump, discussing terrorism at a rally, made the comment "You look at what's happening in Germany. You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible.

There were no terrorist attacks - no particularly notable crimes of any sort - on the night he referenced. Sweden's official Twitter account even had to clarify that there was nothing going on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39020962

Seriously, the man's an idiot, I don't understand why you still try and defend his moronic comments, especially when - like this one - they are unarguably wrong.

DPsx7 posted...

I'd love to see the news removed from TV. It's useless.

First time I've seen someone argue in favour of keeping themselves (and everyone else) ignorant.

Mind you, I guess if you don't like staying informed the news probably seems like a pretty awful thing...
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darkknight109 posted...

DPsx7 posted...

I'd love to see the news removed from TV. It's useless.

First time I've seen someone argue in favour of keeping themselves (and everyone else) ignorant.

Mind you, I guess if you don't like staying informed the news probably seems like a pretty awful thing...

The media just wants to make a buck which is why reporters are so invasive and why stupid stories are overhyped. All they're doing is inspiring copycats. Like anything they report has any effect on my day here. They'd have the weather if we didn't already have a channel dedicated to that.

And yes a lot of lower class people are pissed that Trump is pres so they're going out of their way to cause problems. They'll never report the good things that happen.

DPsx7 posted...

Like anything they report has any effect on my day here.

You must live a pretty boring life if you're impacted by literally nothing in the news.

DPsx7 posted...

And yes a lot of lower class people are pissed that Trump is pres so they're going out of their way to cause problems.

Kind of like the even lower class people that got pissed off when Obama won twice?

That's kind of a fixture of American politics now.
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darkknight109 posted...

You must live a pretty boring life if you're impacted by literally nothing in the news.

What was the last thing in the news that impacted you?
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WastelandCowboy posted...

Oh look. Zeus defending Trump, again.

Oh look. WC is making shit up, again. And he's deflecting, again.

darkknight109 posted...

Zeus posted...

Which thing? The 22 y/o woman who was killed by a Somali asylum seeker? The elderly biker who was killed by a grenade? The 8 y/o boy who was killed by a grenade? Any other of the dozens of cases involving grenades? (Seriously, that country needs grenade control!)

None of the above.

Trump, discussing terrorism at a rally, made the comment "You look at what's happening in Germany. You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible.

There were no terrorist attacks - no particularly notable crimes of any sort - on the night he referenced. Sweden's official Twitter account even had to clarify that there was nothing going on.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39020962

Seriously, the man's an idiot, I don't understand why you still try and defend his moronic comments, especially when - like this one - they are unarguably wrong.

You should have been more specific considering all of the stuff that IS happening in Sweden right now. And denying that there are problems is both unarguably wrong and idiotic.

darkknight109 posted...

First time I've seen someone argue in favour of keeping themselves (and everyone else) ignorant.

Which is itself an admission of ignorance, considering that many famous historical figures have been openly critical of the media, ranging from Thomas Jefferson to Mark Twain, who you *should* have learned about in school.
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<3 when Zeus copypastas from r/The_Donald
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Kyuubi4269 posted...

What was the last thing in the news that impacted you?

Climate change is a pretty significant concern, since my property is oceanfront. Our government is also changing the way elections work, so that's a big deal.

Two examples off the top of my head.

Zeus posted...

You should have been more specific considering all of the stuff that IS happening in Sweden right now.

You mean Trump should have been more specific. Although, given that he was lying through his teeth, that really wouldn't have made any difference.

Zeus posted...

And denying that there are problems is both unarguably wrong and idiotic.

Good thing no one's done that then, right?

I mean, the only thing that's been discussed about Sweden was when lying Donald Trump told a lie, lying about Sweden. Which was definitely a lie. And that's terrible.

Zeus posted...

Which is itself an admission of ignorance, considering that many famous historical figures have been openly critical of the media, ranging from Thomas Jefferson to Mark Twain, who you *should* have learned about in school.

No, I shouldn't have (and didn't), since I'm not American and neither of those individuals are widely known or taught about outside of American schools.
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darkknight109 posted...

Climate change is a pretty significant concern, since my property is oceanfront.

Oh no! In 50-60 years, your property might have lost a little land.... or not.

darkknight109 posted...

Our government is also changing the way elections work, so that's a big deal.

What?! They're getting rid of the electoral system?! The scoundrels!

darkknight109 posted...

You mean Trump should have been more specific. Although, given that he was lying through his teeth, that really wouldn't have made any difference.

His exact quote:
You look at what's happening in Germany. You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible.

In recent years they've had repeated grenade deaths, stabbings in the middle of an Ikea by immigrants, young women murdered by refugees, etc. Do you think Sweden thought those things possible? Because widespread attacks with grenades aren't something I'd put in the realm of possibility. The sky might not have fallen down in Sweden the night before he made his remarks, but they've certainly been having countless problems.

darkknight109 posted...

No, I shouldn't have (and didn't), since I'm not American and neither of those individuals are widely known or taught about outside of American schools.

I learned about both of them in Canadian schools. But maybe you went to school in China or something.
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Nazi propagandists were more honest that Trump.
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Zeus posted...

Oh no! In 50-60 years, your property might have lost a little land.... or not.

Given that I already get water under my house (which is raised on pilings) in the winter and climate change is already measurably affecting the weather around here, no, this isn't something that is having an impact years down the road - I get to live it here and now.

I also find people grossly underestimate exactly what "a few inches" means in terms of tide levels. "A few inches" of sea height doesn't mean seaside properties lose a few inches of land; the grade of most oceanside properties is extremely shallow, so that few inches of height can translate to several hundred square feet of real estate now being underwater at high tide.

Zeus posted...

What?! They're getting rid of the electoral system?!

They are indeed. More specifically, they want to get rid of it and replace it with a proportional one.

Which is a pretty solid idea that I am completely behind.

Zeus posted...

His exact quote:

That I already posted just seven posts ago, so I have no idea why you feel the need to restate it.

Zeus posted...

In recent years they've had repeated grenade deaths, stabbings in the middle of an Ikea by immigrants, young women murdered by refugees, etc.

Literally none of which happened on the night Trump referenced in his lie.

Zeus posted...

Because widespread attacks with grenades aren't something I'd put in the realm of possibility.

LOL!

There have been 78 of them since 2010, or an average of about 10 a year nationwide (and this includes 2016, which was a significant outlier with 35 detonations - take that away and the numbers drop to just over five a year). For comparison, about 100 people are shot and killed every single day in the US. Adjusted for population levels, Sweden has one grenade detonation per million people per year, while the US has 121 shooting deaths per million people per year.

Personally, I think I'd rather live in Sweden. It seems much safer.

Zeus posted...

The sky might not have fallen down in Sweden the night before he made his remarks

In other words, he was lying.

Thank you for proving my point.

Zeus posted...

I learned about both of them in Canadian schools.

You went to a weird school, then, because neither of them are in any Canadian curriculum that I'm familiar with.

Which makes sense, because there's no particular reason why either one would be considered figures of any great importance to anyone outside the American borders.
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"now"
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darkknight109 posted...

DPsx7 posted...

Like anything they report has any effect on my day here.

You must live a pretty boring life if you're impacted by literally nothing in the news.

DPsx7 posted...

And yes a lot of lower class people are pissed that Trump is pres so they're going out of their way to cause problems.

Kind of like the even lower class people that got pissed off when Obama won twice?

That's kind of a fixture of American politics now.

Yeah that's no secret.

I hate hearing about it. Already sick of their ads, I hope nobody wins.

darkknight109 posted...

There have been 78 of them since 2010, or an average of about 10 a year nationwide (and this includes 2016, which was a significant outlier with 35 detonations - take that away and the numbers drop to just over five a year).

Well, now you're deliberately distorting facts. 2015-2017 all saw a huge spike in grenade attacks in sweden. Not just 2016. So basically the most recent three years... but hey if you were to use the last 30 years in your data that would bring down the average per year even more

I'm convinced if Trump said "It's raining cats and dogs outside." people would write articles calling him a liar.
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OhhhJa posted...

darkknight109 posted...

There have been 78 of them since 2010, or an average of about 10 a year nationwide (and this includes 2016, which was a significant outlier with 35 detonations - take that away and the numbers drop to just over five a year).

Well, now you're deliberately distorting facts. 2015-2017 all saw a huge spike in grenade attacks in sweden. Not just 2016. So basically the most recent three years... but hey if you were to use the last 30 years in your data that would bring down the average per year even more

I, too, like to use statistical outliers to push a political point, but the statistician in me understands that's bullshit statistics.

For what it's worth, even if every grenade attack since 2010 all happened in one year, it still wouldn't even be one tenth of America's gun death rate, and that's *after* adjusting for population.
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darkknight109 posted...

OhhhJa posted...

darkknight109 posted...

There have been 78 of them since 2010, or an average of about 10 a year nationwide (and this includes 2016, which was a significant outlier with 35 detonations - take that away and the numbers drop to just over five a year).

Well, now you're deliberately distorting facts. 2015-2017 all saw a huge spike in grenade attacks in sweden. Not just 2016. So basically the most recent three years... but hey if you were to use the last 30 years in your data that would bring down the average per year even more

I, too, like to use statistical outliers to push a political point, but the statistician in me understands that's bullshit statistics.

For what it's worth, even if every grenade attack since 2010 all happened in one year, it still wouldn't even be one tenth of America's gun death rate, and that's *after* adjusting for population.

So you think that the increase in grenade attacks in the last three years has nothing to do with an influx of refugees? Three consecutive years of highly increased number of attacks is hardly an outlier my man

OhhhJa posted...

So you think that the increase in grenade attacks in the last three years has nothing to do with an influx of refugees?

Correct, because the grenades have been linked largely to gang warfare and are coming from Bosnia and Serbia as a result of military surplus being sold per the Dayton peace agreement, not from the Middle East.

Sweden's own analysis has more or less confirmed this. While there are plenty of immigrant gangs (not necessarily Middle Eastern, and not necessarily new), just shy of half of all gang members are Swedish-born non-immigrants. Analysis indicates that most of the gangs are actually from longstanding immigrant communities that have experienced economic stagnation, not recently arrived refugees.

Hell, Snopes even has an article debunking this.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/crime-sweden-part-ii-refugee-men-overrepresented-swedish-crime/

OhhhJa posted...

Three consecutive years of highly increased number of attacks is hardly an outlier my man

Nice use of loaded language while ignoring sample size.

Since that's what we're running with, let me take a stab at it - did you know grenade attacks in 2017 plummeted by nearly 50% to near-historic lows? It's true! 2017's numbers were just 11 off the baseline average.

Seriously, learn to statistics before you start a conversation like this.
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darkknight109 posted...

Since that's what we're running with, let me take a stab at it - did you know grenade attacks in 2017 plummeted by nearly 50% to near-historic lows?

So now you're just making stuff up huh? Lol

They "plummeted" from 24 attacks in 2016 to 16 attacks in 2017. That's more than all the attacks from 2002 to 2012 combined. Also in reference to you pointing out which ethnic groups are responsible... i made no mention of any specific ethnic groups. But I know how you like to make excuses for certain groups of people while using any excuse to attack other groups you perceive as oppressive

This is the same clown who said police cant visit Birmingham in the UK because its overrun by Muslims lol

And this is your President rofl
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OhhhJa posted...

So now you're just making stuff up huh?

Just doing the same thing you were with your slanty statistics. Turnabout is fair play and all.

OhhhJa posted...

They "plummeted" from 24 attacks in 2016 to 16 attacks in 2017.

Congratulations! You got my point. Using loaded language like "highly increased" is a really good way to distort statistics, which is why any credible statistician will immediately call you out when you attempt it.

Also, just gonna let you take a quick gander at the number you posted. 16 attacks. 16. In a country of 10 million people.

You really think this is the great crisis you're desperately trying to paint it as with numbers that low? Again, for comparison, if that was a community in America over 1000 of those people would have been shot and killed in the same timeframe as those 16 attacks took place.

OhhhJa posted...

That's more than all the attacks from 2002 to 2012 combined

Alright, here's your next lesson in statistics. I want you to go look up what the phrase "small sample size" means and try and understand its impact when discussing statistical trending. Come back after you've done that and we'll continue our discussion.

OhhhJa posted...

Also in reference to you pointing out which ethnic groups are responsible... i made no mention of any specific ethnic groups.

Oh, give the dog whistle a rest, we all know exactly what you mean. Don't be fucking dense.

And, if we want to be really pedantic, you *did* specify an ethnic group, albeit indirectly. See, you didn't claim that the attacks were the results of immigrants, you labelled "refugees" specifically. And where are the refugees coming from that Sweden has taken in over the years that we're talking about? You guessed it - Syria.

You could hide behind wormy language if you'd said "immigrants" and left it at that, but that's not what you said. By labelling it as "refugees", you've specified it as one very specific group of people (and, incidentally, not the ones actually responsible for the attacks).

OhhhJa posted...

But I know how you like to make excuses for certain groups of people while using any excuse to attack other groups you perceive as oppressive

Apparently not, because seldom do I discuss people in broad groups - I find it distasteful. Even trying to sort through your dissembling via one of the most mealy-mouthed, non-specific accusations I think I've ever seen, I can say right now that you're lying.
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darkknight109 posted...

Congratulations! You got my point. Using loaded language like "highly increased" is a really good way to distort statistics, which is why any credible statistician will immediately call you out when you attempt it.

We're talking about grenade attacks homie. Would you not call an increase from 3 mass shootings to 24 in one year a big increase?

darkknight109 posted...

Just doing the same thing you were with your slanty statistics. Turnabout is fair play and all.

Except I never made anything up. You did

this is defcon level covfefe
EMERGIENE!

OhhhJa posted...

Except I never made anything up. You did

What do you think I made up?

That attacks "plummeted"? No less wormy, misleading language than saying they "highly increased". Saying that they dropped by nearly 50%? They did and your own numbers show that - half of 24 is 12, meaning 2017 missed the mark by just four.

Subjective? Absolutely. Misleading? Sure. But so was your statement about how these attacks had "highly increased", which was exactly my point.

And no, it wasn't making things up, unlike the last statement of your last post.

OhhhJa posted...

Would you not call an increase from 3 mass shootings to 24 in one year a big increase?

Depends - would you call a drop from 24 mass shootings to 16 a "plummet"?

Again, this is why most statisticians avoid subjective qualifiers in the first place. I work with this sort of data in my job all the time and I'm constantly having to impress this upon the junior engineers working under me. Things like we don't "highly recommend" something - we either recommend it or we don't; or that risk isn't a "conservative estimate" - just "an estimate".
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darkknight109 posted...

Depends - would you call a drop from 24 mass shootings to 16 a "plummet"?

No but I would consider going from almost none to 24 to be a pretty huge increase. But yeah I guess it depends on whether or not you believe grenade attacks are a big deal

darkknight109 posted...

What do you think I made up?

You said grenade attacks plummeted to historic lows in 2017. That is factually incorrect my man no matter how you try to spin it

OhhhJa posted...

You said grenade attacks plummeted to historic lows in 2017. That is factually incorrect my man no matter how you try to spin it

Of course it's not factually incorrect, because the way I phrased it is entirely subjective. I didn't say they were at historic lows like you're claiming, I said they were "near" historic lows, and "near" can mean pretty much anything. If the lowest number of shootings on record is 35000 a year and one year they dropped to 35016, that's pretty near historic lows - just 16 off the record.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly how far off of the historic lows 2017 was for grenade attacks in Sweden.

As you're hopefully starting to learn, when you put your own interpretive words around statistics - like, say, "a pretty huge increase" - you can basically spin the narrative to be whatever you want, no matter if it's completely detached from reality.

Speaking of which...

OhhhJa posted...

No but I would consider going from almost none to 24 to be a pretty huge increase

See, I'd consider that a pretty huge mischaractierization. Subjectivity is wonderful, isn't it.

Moreover, I see you haven't yet bothered to read up on sample size. As I've been harping on for a while, playing this up like it's this enormous, horrifying trend is ignoring the fact that while the statistical increase might be huge (an 800% jump, holy shit!!!1!1) that means relatively little when you're dealing with tiny numbers. And talking about low-double digit attacks out of a population of 10 millions is a laughably small sample size.

To put it another way, I'm a business owner and I'm also the company's only employee. My business is a side-gig and it pulls in roughly $10k a year for me - it won't pay my mortgage, but it does give me some extra spending cash. If, next year, I hired 25 more staff and pushed my business income up to $1.01mil a year, I'd have a 2500% increase in personnel, and an eye-popping 10,000% increase in revenue. Pretty amazing numbers, and certainly way better than any blue-chip stock you're ever likely to see. Of course, that sort of growth is distorted by the fact that my starting point was miniscule, thus making the growth completely unsustainable, so if I tried to claim that I was a business genius on par with Bill Gates, I'd get laughed out of whatever investment meeting I was trying my pitch at.

OhhhJa posted...

But yeah I guess it depends on whether or not you believe grenade attacks are a big deal

Lemme flip this back on you - why do you think they're a big deal? Bigger than, say, America's issue with guns, which is causing more deaths in a day than Sweden is dealing with in a year?

Grenades are a violent, shitty way to die, no arguments there... but so are guns, and I don't see you shrieking in terror about those, despite the fact that they're a much larger threat.
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darkknight109 posted...

Of course it's not factually incorrect, because the way I phrased it is entirely subjective. I didn't say they were at historic lows like you're claiming, I said they were "near" historic lows, and "near" can mean pretty much anything. If the lowest number of shootings on record is 35000 a year and one year they dropped to 35016, that's pretty near historic lows - just 16 off the record.

Which, coincidentally, is exactly how far off of the historic lows 2017 was for grenade attacks in Sweden.

As you're hopefully starting to learn, when you put your own interpretive words around statistics - like, say, "a pretty huge increase" - you can basically spin the narrative to be whatever you want, no matter if it's completely detached from reality.

Speaking of which...

I know it's your shtick to show everyone your great knowledge of statistics but truth be told statistics courses were part of my curriculum so I'm not impressed. It's just your thing to dodge a point and argue semantics from some statistical high horse. The bottom line is that a decade ago grenade attacks were more or less non existent. Now they are anything but.

darkknight109 posted...

See, I'd consider that a pretty huge mischaractierization. Subjectivity is wonderful, isn't it.

Moreover, I see you haven't yet bothered to read up on sample size. As I've been harping on for a while, playing this up like it's this enormous, horrifying trend is ignoring the fact that while the statistical increase might be huge (an 800% jump, holy s***!!!1!1) that means relatively little when you're dealing with tiny numbers. And talking about low-double digit attacks out of a population of 10 millions is a laughably small sample size.

Oh man, the irony of you claiming that 24 grenade attacks in one year isnt a problem in such a small country of less than 10 million but claiming that 154 mass shootings country of over 300 million is a gigantic issue. Let's compare the statistics of the populations here since you love statistics. The US has more than 30 times the population of sweden. If you multiply those 24 by 30 you get 720. Man that's a whole lot of grenade attacks. No problem there! And before you start to harp on statistics again, I know there are other factors to consider... socioeconomic factors, availability of weapons, a thousand other factors... etc. The same goes for America's gun problem. darkknight109 posted...

Lemme flip this back on you - why do you think they're a big deal? Bigger than, say, America's issue with guns, which is causing more deaths in a day than Sweden is dealing with in a year?

Grenades are a violent, s***ty way to die, no arguments there... but so are guns, and I don't see you shrieking in terror about those, despite the fact that they're a much larger threat.

That's like 5 times, you've tried to make this topic about America's gun problem. And now you're baselessly assuming that I dont think America has a gun problem. I'd say we have a pretty huge problem as well but it's funny to me that you keep trying to divert a discussion about an issue in sweden with a weapons issue in another country. Could you just admit that both countries have an issue? I know America is your favorite boogie man but c'mon man... at least try to appear like you're capable of relatively unbiased critical thinking

OhhhJa posted...

The bottom line is that a decade ago grenade attacks were more or less non existent. Now they are anything but.

Dude, you're talking about something that is *literally* one in a million. It's *still* next to non-existent.

The reason why these attacks hit the papers is that they're basically like terrorism - big and flashy and scary, but ultimately short on results.

Suggesting that 16 attacks in an entire year, across 10,000,000 people represents some big crisis is just sensationalism.

OhhhJa posted...

Oh man, the irony of you claiming that 24 grenade attacks in one year isnt a problem in such a small country of less than 10 million but claiming that 154 mass shootings country of over 300 million is a gigantic issue.

You're lying again. You should stop lying. It makes you sound like Trump.

I've never once said 154 mass shootings in a country of over 300 million is a gigantic issue. America doesn't have a mass shooting problem, it has a shooting problem in general. Mass shootings make up a tiny minority of gun deaths in America and even if you could stop every single one (and there's no reasonable way you could), the death toll would be practically unaltered. See above mentioned point on terrorism, because this is another perfect example of that same trend.

Seriously, dude, strawman arguments aren't going to get you anywhere.

OhhhJa posted...

That's like 5 times, you've tried to make this topic about America's gun problem. And now you're baselessly assuming that I dont think America has a gun problem. I'd say we have a pretty huge problem as well but it's funny to me that you keep trying to divert a discussion about an issue in sweden with a weapons issue in another country. Could you just admit that both countries have an issue? I know America is your favorite boogie man but c'mon man... at least try to appear like you're capable of relatively unbiased critical thinking

Says the guy who baselessly tried to blame this on refugees, a conclusion that has zero evidence and zero basis in reality.

The reason why I keep coming back to America's gun problem is because the whole Sweden argument is such utter horseshit and said gun problem is the easiest way to point out why.

I mean, let's take a good, solid look at this. Zeus claimed that Sweden is suffering from "widespread grenade attacks". You claimed there was a "huge spike" in grenade attacks and tied it to refugees. This is all pure, undiluted, bullshit alarmism and I feel like both of you should be smart enough to know that. And a simple look at the numbers reveals the truth - you are more likely to be shot in America than be a victim of a grenade attack in Sweden. Not just a little bit more likely either - multiple orders of magnitude more likely. The odds of you surviving a year in Sweden without being blown up are roughly the same as you surviving *three days* in the US without getting shot.

Conservatives badly want Sweden to be in some huge crisis so they can use it to shriek about socialism and foreigners and Islam and refugees, but it's simply not true. This is not the big, scary boogeyman you desperately want it to be. Sweden was one of the safest places on the planet before 2016 and it's still one of the safest places on the planet in 2018. Unless you are terrified to leave your home every morning for fear of getting shot, you have absolutely zero basis to point fingers at Sweden and say "Look at all the horrible things happening!"

The grenade attacks are awful, the same as any other terrorist-style attack, but - when you actually take a dispassionate look at the numbers - they're all flash and zero substance.
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Escape from LA The Trump Years:)
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Not news, Trump has been pulling **** out of his ass since the 80s
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ReturnOfFa posted...

Not news, Trump has been pulling **** out of his ass since the 80s

Gotta be prepared for prison.
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darkknight109 posted...

Given that I already get water under my house (which is raised on pilings) in the winter and climate change is already measurably affecting the weather around here, no, this isn't something that is having an impact years down the road - I get to live it here and now.

I also find people grossly underestimate exactly what "a few inches" means in terms of tide levels. "A few inches" of sea height doesn't mean seaside properties lose a few inches of land; the grade of most oceanside properties is extremely shallow, so that few inches of height can translate to several hundred square feet of real estate now being underwater at high tide.

Mister, you're all wet!

darkknight109 posted...

They are indeed. More specifically, they want to get rid of it and replace it with a proportional one.

Which is a pretty solid idea that I am completely behind.

Sounds like a terrible unconstitutional idea.

darkknight109 posted...

That I already posted just seven posts ago, so I have no idea why you feel the need to restate it.

Figured you might actually pay attention to what he said.

darkknight109 posted...

Literally none of which happened on the night Trump referenced in his lie.

These are things happening on a daily basis. You're just moving the goalposts.

darkknight109 posted...

LOL!

There have been 78 of them since 2010, or an average of about 10 a year nationwide (and this includes 2016, which was a significant outlier with 35 detonations - take that away and the numbers drop to just over five a year). For comparison, about 100 people are shot and killed every single day in the US. Adjusted for population levels, Sweden has one grenade detonation per million people per year, while the US has 121 shooting deaths per million people per year.

Personally, I think I'd rather live in Sweden. It seems much safer.

Overlooking that Sweden's grenade attacks are in ADDITION to their other crimes (and not touching on the fact that your claim is a pretty massive distortion given that it's been a GROWING trend with the vast majority of incidents happening in the last FOUR years), you're pretending that 10/year is a great acceptable number in a nation that previously averaged ZERO per year. More importantly, as Swedish police acknowledge, the level of attacks is unprecedented outside of war zones.

And if you'd like to live in Sweden, go ahead. Just tell them you're a refugee and they'll hook you up with a home in one of their towns (whether or not the residents are okay with it).

darkknight109 posted...

In other words, he was lying.

Thank you for proving my point.

Not true at all.

darkknight109 posted...

You went to a weird school, then, because neither of them are in any Canadian curriculum that I'm familiar with.

Which makes sense, because there's no particular reason why either one would be considered figures of any great importance to anyone outside the American borders.

If you mean to imply that Canadian history classes teach nothing of the history of foreign nations -- which is blatantly untrue -- then Canada's education system is vastly worse than the US's considering that the US covers the history of other nations.
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FatalAccident posted...

This is the same clown who said police cant visit Birmingham in the UK because its overrun by Muslims lol

And this is your President rofl

Would that be the same Birmingham where officers were pelted with bricks while looking for a suspect? And where a traffic cop was beaten and robbed in broad daylight? I can't imagine what gave Trump that impression...
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Zeus posted...

Sounds like a terrible unconstitutional idea.

Nothing unconstitutional about it whatsoever. Moreover, constitutions can be changed and amended - only the US seems to have this weird fixation on a 300-year-old document being some infallible piece of wisdom that never needs updating due to the march of time and the changing of society and techology.

Zeus posted...

Figured you might actually pay attention to what he said.

You might want to go and have a re-read yourself. Here, I'll even give you the expanded quote:

"We've got to keep our country safe. You look at what's happening in Germany. You look at what's happening last night in Sweden. Sweden, who would believe this? Sweden. They took in large numbers. They're having problems like they never thought possible. You look at what's happening in Brussels. You look at what's happening all over the world. Take a look at Nice. Take a look at Paris."

Guess what happened in Germany, Brussels, Nice, and Paris over the last few years? Terrorist attacks. Guess what didn't happen in Sweden on the night referenced? A terrorist attack.

You really shouldn't be surprised at Trump lying about this. After all, this is the same administration that brought us the Bowling Green Massacre and the Atlanta Islamist terrorist attack which - just like Trump's lie here - both never happened.

Zeus posted...

These are things happening on a daily basis. You're just moving the goalposts.

*I'm* moving the goalposts? Excuse me? And your claim on this is a pathetically flimsy "these things happen on a daily basis"?

News flash for you, sparky - Sweden's homicide rate is sitting at 1.14 per 100k, meaning they have just over 100 deaths a year. It is literally impossible for terrorist attacks to be happening on a daily basis, because Sweden has fewer annual homicides than there are days in a year.

You know what? I'm calling your bluff on this. Prove that a terrorist attack happened on the night Trump referenced. If you can't, you're lying just as much as the president whose leg you're humping.

Zeus posted...

Overlooking that Sweden's grenade attacks are in ADDITION to their other crimes (and not touching on the fact that your claim is a pretty massive distortion given that it's been a GROWING trend with the vast majority of incidents happening in the last FOUR years), you're pretending that 10/year is a great acceptable number in a nation that previously averaged ZERO per year.

Guess you need some stats homework too. Man, I should run a course on this board.

OK, Zeus, your reading assignment for this evening is to go lookup "small sample size" and write a report back on how it distorts statistical trends. Return to the discussion after you've figured it out.

Zeus posted...

Not true at all.

Aptly put - it was not true at all. Glad we're in agreement on this.

Zeus posted...

If you mean to imply that Canadian history classes teach nothing of the history of foreign nations -- which is blatantly untrue -- then Canada's education system is vastly worse than the US's considering that the US covers the history of other nations.

I never said Canada taught no history of foreign nations; merely that there's little reason why anyone outside the US would care about Jefferson or Twain specifically or why they would bother to learn about them.
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darkknight109 posted...

sparky

Lol because the lightning.
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darkknight109 posted...

I never said Canada taught no history of foreign nations; merely that there's little reason why anyone outside the US would care about Jefferson or Twain specifically or why they would bother to learn about them.

We learnt bout European history, America and Asia may as well not have existed in my history classes.
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