Current Events > Germany General.

(+) Yeah! (+)

Its constantly amazing how someone can take so much pride in being so ignorant about every subject imaginable
---

ASithLord7 posted...

Its constantly amazing how someone can take so much pride in being so ignorant about every subject imaginable

Are you questioning the vast knowledge snu has gained from his Wikipedia research?
---

ASithLord7 posted...

Its constantly amazing how someone can take so much pride in being so ignorant about every subject imaginable

Can you list these alleged subjects?

MC_BatCommander posted...

ASithLord7 posted...

Its constantly amazing how someone can take so much pride in being so ignorant about every subject imaginable

Are you questioning the vast knowledge snu has gained from his Wikipedia research?

As I've told people repeatedly, I get my knowledge from many sources. And there's nothing wrong with Wikipedia...well, nothing that bad, anyway. I hate Wikipedia bashing.

@ASithLord7

Bump.
---

I don't know if the Nord Stream 2 pipeline (future natural gas pipeline with Russia) has been brought up yet, but it's a fucking disgrace that the German government is pushing through with this at a time when Russian aggressive towards Eastern Europe is at an all time high since the collapse of the Soviet Union. Germany is pretending to be tough on Russia but is not willing to do anything to the German-Russian relationship that would hurt their own economic interests. In the future, if this pipeline is built, Germany will be even less willing to stand up to Russia, as their economic well-being will be even more directly linked to them.
---

It shouldn't come as a galloping shock to you that a country will usually put its economic interests above its moral ones. This usually happens while the country refuses to acknowledge it. I mean, look at Trump basically saying he's okay with the Saudi government killing that guy. Can you imagine if the Western and Eastern Worlds turned their back on Saudi Arabia's massive oil supplies? Lulz. I don't think that is going to happen. Which is bad.
---

Sunhawk posted...

It shouldn't come as a galloping shock to you that a country will usually put its economic interests above its moral ones. This usually happens while the country refuses to acknowledge it. I mean, look at Trump basically saying he's okay with the Saudi government killing that guy. Can you imagine if the Western and Eastern Worlds turned their back on Saudi Arabia's massive oil supplies? Lulz. I don't think that is going to happen. Which is bad.

It should still be called out, and it's also important to mention that Russia is a legitimate threat to actual German allies like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, and Poland. On the other hand, Saudi Arabia is not a security threat but a problem for reasons of humanitarianism and human rights.

Basically, Germany seems to have forgotten who its allies are and who its adversaries are.
---

You say "for reasons of humanitarianism and human rights" like that is unimportant. Come on. North Korea, and various other toy countries with dictators would love to hear you say that.

Sativa_Rose is soft on oppression. :O Sativa_Rose is sympathetic to dictatorial regimes. :O

</propaganda>

---

Man I'd love to live in Germany someday (although I've only been to Berlin and Potsdam). I met so many awesome Germans while travelling in Australia recently. Some from Hamburg, Cologne, Berlin, Stuttgart, the Black Forest, all over... There was even a mock Oktoberfest in Brisbane which was pretty interesting.
---

Sunhawk posted...

You say "for reasons of humanitarianism and human rights" like that is unimportant. Come on. North Korea, and various other toy countries with dictators would love to hear you say that.

Sativa_Rose is soft on oppression. :O Sativa_Rose is sympathetic to dictatorial regimes. :O

</propaganda>

North Korea is also such a big deal because it's a security threat. I am not saying human rights don't matter, not at all, but a country should still not be cozying up to adversarial nations the way Germany as been with Russia.

This is basically whataboutism anyways. Germany's relationship with Russia is not any more justified because of the US and other western relationships with Saudi Arabia.
---

Since we're talking energy production, what do you think of Angela Merkel's decision to get rid of all nuclear power in Germany by, I think, 2020?

She's a smart person, with a STEM background, but I think this is a big mistake. If I was running my own country (pretty big "if", but there we go), I would convert pretty much all energy production to nuclear power. Very clean, pretty safe, and each station generates huge amounts of power. Plus, you don't have to worry about the wind blowing, or the sun shining. Just getting more uranium, pretty much, and there's still quite a lot of that. I hate all those green people who say it's evil, and that it pollutes the environment really badly (which isn't true).

---

Sunhawk posted...

Since we're talking energy production, what do you think of Angela Merkel's decision to get rid of all nuclear power in Germany by, I think, 2020?

She's a smart person, with a STEM background, but I think this is a big mistake. If I was running my own country (pretty big "if", but there we go), I would convert pretty much all energy production to nuclear power. Very clean, pretty safe, and each station generates huge amounts of power. Plus, you don't have to worry about the wind blowing, or the sun shining. Just getting more uranium, pretty much, and there's still quite a lot of that. I hate all those green people who say it's evil, and that it pollutes the environment really badly (which isn't true).

The anti-nuclear movement was a terrible idea. I think it's not so much that it was Merkel's fault personally as she did this in response to a large anti-nuclear power movement that was gaining strength across Germany. The decision to scrap nuclear power has been a huge setback for Germany's climate change goals. There is no doubt about that. Usage of coal power went up in the years following this decision.

Those green people you speak of drive me crazy. They have harmed the environmental movement in many ways. Virtually all rational environmentalists who have put effort into studying the issues will come down in favor of nuclear power, but it's these crazy hysterical greens who end up shouting the loudest. Environmentalism in general has a bad name because of those types. Greenpeace I am looking at you.
---

Since we're talking energy production

Can someone find the clip of the German reaction to address at the UN Council regarding there energy policy? In regards to their dependence on Russia.

I freaking love that moment.

Side note: No one mentioned Bach yet? WTH
---

The image of environmentalists is abysmal. People hate them, and rightly so. I mean, obviously the environment is worth saving - since we live in it - but their beliefs and tactics are really bad. I don't think they hear how they sound.

You know, they're building a big new nuclear plant near where I live in Britain. Hinkley Point C. My only real problems with this new power plant is that it will take years to build, and is costing something like 20 billion pounds, I think. It's a shame nuclear power plants are SO expensive to build, but they last for maybe 50 years, and can actually be used for longer than that, although it's not neccesarily a good idea.

Green energy power production is a joke. Solar panels and wind turbines don't seem to produce much power at all. Hydroelectric power is really good though (I'll admit that much).

---

Was Bach German? I don't actually remember. You know, Germans cling to Wagner like the British cling to Shakespeare, as if those countries never produced any other musicians or playwrights, respectively.
---

Ummm, Yes, he was.
---

Infantry Attacks is probably the best nonfiction book I've ever read.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJXKVOxqkWM" data-time="

Sunhawk posted...

Was Bach German? I don't actually remember. You know, Germans cling to Wagner like the British cling to Shakespeare, as if those countries never produced any other musicians or playwrights, respectively.

That's kind of a WWII thing. Not sure where you're going with that.
If anything the tune for their national anthem was written by Haydn. Which is amazing!!

Like literally, "Fucking, Franz Joseph Haydn, wrote our national anthem."
---

Sunhawk posted...

The image of environmentalists is abysmal. People hate them, and rightly so. I mean, obviously the environment is worth saving - since we live in it - but their beliefs and tactics are really bad. I don't think they hear how they sound.

You know, they're building a big new nuclear plant near where I live in Britain. Hinkley Point C. My only real problems with this new power plant is that it will take years to build, and is costing something like 20 billion pounds, I think. It's a shame nuclear power plants are SO expensive to build, but they last for maybe 50 years, and can actually be used for longer than that, although it's not neccesarily a good idea.

Green energy power production is a joke. Solar panels and wind turbines don't seem to produce much power at all. Hydroelectric power is really good though (I'll admit that much).

You lost me with your last few sentences. Wind and solar aren't a joke - they are actually some of the cheapest forms of power available in most regions even without subsidies. Wind and solar are more likely to play an increasingly large role going forward than nuclear. Like you said, nuclear is very expensive, as there is a huge amount of bureaucracy and red tape that goes into building new nuclear plants. In an ideal world this wouldn't be the case, but given the status quo, it is unlikely that nuclear will play a big role going forward.

Here's an article about how cheap wind and solar have become. Most people don't realize the rapid rate of cost reduction that has been going on over the past 10 years.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2018/11/21/want-the-cheapest-electricity-build-solar-and-wind-farms-not-coal-power-plants/#289c91e866ce
---

To be fair, the cost affectiveness varies from country to country. If I lived in Australia, I could generate tons of privately owned solar panels, i.e. on my house's roof, but since I live in Britain, it wouldn't generate as much. Same with wind. Do you see? But I'm not an expect on power production or anything, although there might be a few people on CE you could ask about this kind of stuff. Plenty of STEM people on CE. >_>

Do you have any thoughts on modern Germany, on any subject? Race relations, feminism, politics, the economy, culture, etc?

---

SiO4 posted...

Like literally, "Fucking Haydn wrote our national anthem."

The United States national anthem was stolen from drunken Englishmen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KcHg5ZOIgU" data-time="

Jimi Hendrix perfected the whole thing anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKAwPA14Ni4" data-time="

@Questionmarktarius

Questionmarktarius posted...

SiO4 posted...

Like literally, "Fucking Haydn wrote our national anthem."

The United States national anthem was stolen from drunken Englishmen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KcHg5ZOIgU" data-time="

Jimi Hendrix perfected the whole thing anyway.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKAwPA14Ni4" data-time="

OMF.. I agree with you all the way.
Yes, the tune was borrowed from a folk song.
Which is alright.

But I do agree 100% Jimi's version is probably the most honest interpretation I've ever heard.
He actually captures the violence of the song...No else ever tries.

If had to pick a proper song for the US anthem it would probably be: Woody Guthrie's, This Land Is Your Land.

I feel it does a much better job of encompassing the American promise.
---

Do people have opinions on sexism against women in Germany? This was discussed a while ago in another topic, but there was quite a lot of agreement.

Apparently, women are strongly "encouraged" to leave the workforce for several years, when they have their first child, and are stigmatised if they don't. Also, something like 2% of people on boards of directors are women.

---

SiO4 posted...

If had to pick a proper song for the US anthem it would probably be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGQaH3-LK54" data-time="

Sunhawk posted...

To be fair, the cost affectiveness varies from country to country. If I lived in Australia, I could generate tons of privately owned solar panels, i.e. on my house's roof, but since I live in Britain, it wouldn't generate as much. Same with wind. Do you see? But I'm not an expect on power production or anything, although there might be a few people on CE you could ask about this kind of stuff. Plenty of STEM people on CE. >_>

Do you have any thoughts on modern Germany, on any subject? Race relations, feminism, politics, the economy, culture, etc?

Wind is probably more realistic for the UK than solar is, but you'd probably be surprised at how effective solar can still be in rainy climates like Germany's.

As for my thoughts on modern Germany, the only other stuff I have to say is more criticism of their foreign policy. In short, we need Germany to be a major world power again. This means Germany needs to start taking its military seriously. This means a massive buildup of the German navy. This means a removal of any remaining post-WWII restrictions on its military. We need German ships playing a major role in things like freedom of navigation patrols in volatile regions like the Persian Gulf and South China Sea, to give one example. We also need a much larger contribution to NATO deployments in Eastern Europe (meant to deter Russian aggression) from Germany.
---

You want a "massive buildup" of Germany's navy? For Germany to take its "military seriously"? To have a "much larger contribution" to foreign deployments? Some people aren't going to like how this sounds. >_>

Also, I didn't realise there were still international legal restrictions on the Germany armed forces. What are they? Are they severe? I suppose the Japanese still don't allow themselves to fight in any wars at all, except to protect Japanese terrain itself, so some things last a long time.

---

Sunhawk posted...

Was Bach German? I don't actually remember. You know, Germans cling to Wagner like the British cling to Shakespeare, as if those countries never produced any other musicians or playwrights, respectively.

Mate, that just hurts...
Beethoven, Bach, Brahms, Mendelssohn, Strauss, Schumann, etc, etc?
Most famous classical composers were German, one could argue that classical music as we know it originates in Germany. (When I say classical, I mean several different styles which casuals refer to as classical music collectively that is)

This fucking thing:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6a/Bagger-garzweiler.jpg/1920px-Bagger-garzweiler.jpg

Even Hitler's paper Landkreuzer P. 1500 Monster utterly pales to that fantastical colossus, yet there it is.

Sunhawk posted...

You want a "massive buildup" of Germany's navy? For Germany to take its "military seriously"? To have a "much larger contribution" to foreign deployments? Some people aren't going to like how this sounds. >_>

Also, I didn't realise there were still international legal restrictions on the Germany armed forces. What are they? Are they severe? I suppose the Japanese still don't allow themselves to fight in any wars at all, except to protect Japanese terrain itself, so some things last a long time.

Yeah I realize that some people will be against this because it will make them think of WWII, but that is a silly way to look at it. Germany is the 2nd largest country in NATO in terms of economic size. The idea that we can have a strong NATO while allowing Germany to barely contribute is just not feasible. Germany has been slacking for far too long in this area, and it's about time things change.

There are some restrictions that still remain, mainly just a limit on the total size of the military and some provisions not allowing them to get nukes or allow foreign nukes into East Germany (I think there are American and possibly other European nukes stationed in Germany). This link is where I am getting the info.

https://www.quora.com/What-military-restrictions-still-apply-to-Germany

Also, funny you bring up Japan, these same kinds of discussions are going on with respect to Japan, except in their case there have been serious discussions about amending their constitution to remove the military restrictions. It really does make sense in the era of a rising, expansionary China and an unpredictable nuclear North Korea in their backyard.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/10/14/abe-renews-pledge-change-japans-constitution-boost-troops.html

Shinzo Abe is pretty open about wanting to increase the military's size and scope.
---

It's going to be an interesting world indeed when United States / Germany / Japan are a major bloc. This may or may not have been how it actually is, since 1993 or so.

Where does Canada go?

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's going to be an interesting world indeed when United States / Germany / Japan are a major bloc. This may or may not have been how it actually is, since 1993 or so.

Where does Canada go?

Canada is on the same side. You have NATO, which already includes the US, Canada, and Germany, and then additional allies outside of NATO like Japan, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand that are NATO-aligned. People just don't realize the extent to which these countries have shared foreign policy goals and how much they work together.
---

Sativa_Rose posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's going to be an interesting world indeed when United States / Germany / Japan are a major bloc. This may or may not have been how it actually is, since 1993 or so.

Where does Canada go?

Canada is on the same side. You have NATO, which already includes the US, Canada, and Germany, and then additional allies outside of NATO like Japan, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand that are NATO-aligned. People just don't realize the extent to which these countries have shared foreign policy goals and how much they work together.

If Germany starts shit in Europe again, US-Canada relations are going to get weird.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

It's going to be an interesting world indeed when United States / Germany / Japan are a major bloc. This may or may not have been how it actually is, since 1993 or so.

Where does Canada go?

Canada is on the same side. You have NATO, which already includes the US, Canada, and Germany, and then additional allies outside of NATO like Japan, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand that are NATO-aligned. People just don't realize the extent to which these countries have shared foreign policy goals and how much they work together.

If Germany starts shit in Europe again, US-Canada relations are going to get weird.

Well that's about as likely as the US trying to invade Canada, so I'm not worried.
---

Sativa_Rose posted...

Well that's about as likely as the US trying to invade Canada, so I'm not worried.

That depends entirely on who Russia sides with.
A US-Canada war will be very short.

The only unknown is how radioactive the planet will be afterwords.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Well that's about as likely as the US trying to invade Canada, so I'm not worried.

That depends entirely on who Russia sides with.

Russia is already on the side against NATO, which means being against Germany, the US, and Canada. Of course, one of the advantages of the Nord Stream 2 pipeline from the Russian point of view is that it further divides German interests from the interests of its allies, but still, Germany isn't about to be on the same side as Russia in any sort of military conflict. That is just too ridiculous to suggest.
---

Sativa_Rose posted...

That is just too ridiculous to suggest.

United States and Canada go to war for some reason. Who's side is Russia on?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUR_dsXy0Io" data-time="
---

Questionmarktarius posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

That is just too ridiculous to suggest.

United States and Canada go to war for some reason. Who's side is Russia on?

They support both sides with the goal of having them both lose (something Henry Kissinger said about the Iran-Iraq war, he wanted to make it so they both lost).
---

Sativa_Rose posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

That is just too ridiculous to suggest.

United States and Canada go to war for some reason. Who's side is Russia on?

They support both sides with the goal of having them both lose (something Henry Kissinger said about the Iran-Iraq war, he wanted to make it so they both lost).

So...US since 1911.

damn.

Questionmarktarius posted...

So...US since 1911.

umm wtf? No.
---

Sativa_Rose posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

So...US since 1911.

umm wtf? No.

Okay, I messed up.

US in 1911, before Lusitania dragged it out of isolationism.

Questionmarktarius posted...

Sativa_Rose posted...

Questionmarktarius posted...

So...US since 1911.

umm wtf? No.

Okay, I messed up.

US in 1911, before Lusitania dragged it out of isolationism.

Still no, isolationism and a deliberate strategy of arming both sides to make them both lose are not the same thing. It's not the same thing as being a neutral country that sells to both sides because you don't have a stake in the outcome. Not at all, it's still a very interventionist foreign policy.
---

Huh, finally some intelligent posts itt
---

I know, and they were quite friendly, too.

Tar and Alpha won't like this if they see it.

---

Sunhawk posted...

I know, and they were quite friendly, too.

Tar and Alpha won't like this if they see it.

Why do you assume we have a vested interest in preventing useful conversation from happening

If anything me posting in your topics helps them get attention
---

When you think about it, with regards to Nazi Germany, Hitler did actually basically achieve his goals.

1. Either win World War 2, or, if Germany lost, fight to pretty much the last man.
2. Rid Europe of most of its Jews, either through driving them away or killing them.

He actually achieved the 2 main things he set out to achieve. Perhaps events didn't turn out quite how he wanted, but I expect he wasn't THAT unhappy. In his twisted little mind, he had basically "won" the situation, and probably thought the Germans would really respect him after his death.

I read an interesting Wiki some time ago, about the psychopathology of Hitler, where people in more recent times have speculated about his mental health, and what might've been wrong with it. Some people have suggested he had had schizophrenia, which would explain why he had those paranoid delusions about the Jews and the socialists being responsible for most of the problems with the world.

---

I discovered some hilarious jokes about East Germany.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Germany_jokes

---

Speaking of the Stasi, has anyone seen The Lives of Others? Apparently, it's a really good look at the Stasi, but I've never seen it. Is it worth watching?
---

Bump.
---

I was down a bookstore again today, reading some of their German history stuff.

The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich is about 1,200 pages long, and the print size isn't even that big. I've read some it, but wtf @ the thought of reading the whole thing. Lots of little bits of information in there, very detailed stuff. I think that maybe the book lacks perspective, though, because it was released in the 1960s, only 15 or 20 years after the fall of the Third Reich, and historically speaking, I don't think that's long enough to really understand a huge thing...plus, the author wouldn't have been able to see as many of the consequences of the Nazi Era as someone writing such a non-fiction book in the last 10 years. The rise of the alt-right in Europe and North America, for example.

---