Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 2: The Exposition Continues

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lea3Lea posted...

Luis_Sera89 posted...

red13n posted...

pezloco posted...

@DoomTheGyarados you're here!

So, I wanted Chris here for this because I knew he'd appreciate it.

Guys we might actually have a third party this game. It ballooned up to 20 after Han had it set for 17. The increased size and having to adjust a premade game, make me think we might actually have a SK!

I love the concept of third party stuff, gives us more to puzzle over as the game progresses. You know provided they don't have ALL the powers at once.

Also possible perspective flaw here. The game could have already had an SK. Increase in size and then +1 scum.

Again, only scum hunts for SK.

You have no idea how disappointed I am to read through all those overnight posts only to have red steal my thunder right at the end. At least partly.

To elaborate, I don't think pez "SK hunting" is sufficient on it's own for me to think he's scum. People can have skewed perspectives. What irked me was his justification for thinking so. red just highlighted it but I think his reasoning is backwards. In a 17 player game I assume 5 scum unless given reason to believe otherwise. A SK doesn't (or shouldn't) fit in 17 because 5+1 SK means town has under two thirds numbers, and 4+1 means the mafia is under 25%. Assuming then, 5 scum, when increasing that to 21 players, without throwing off the balance, the natural course of action would be adding 3 town and 1 scum. I just don't see how you look at that, biased perspective or not, and immediately suspect the addition of an SK unless you know more than you're letting on. No-one is that one-track.

This is the main thing I didn't like from Luis. He says he went through all the trouble of reading the overnight posts and THIS is his grand finale. Not just SK hunting, but SK hunting with bad set up meta. It feels as though rather than comment on actual game motives and the like, he instead uses all his words to talk about game set up theory. Scum tends to loveeee being able to post a bunch about "facts" that fill a lot of space but don't actually meaningfully express an opinion. Again, he's not really going after Pez as a player so much as he's attacking that SK thought directly. Chris's reason for not liking Pez is better.

Thanks lea good point i think that gives you some town points in my book i kind of picked up on that as well
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Lea3Lea posted...

I was just about to ask if it was common for him to do catch up walls as town

He did last game!

htaeD posted...

Also I have seen the Pez posts about the SK stuff now. And it feels like he is deliberately being obtuse to keep his logic confusing. Why is he making me read about quotients.. argh.

I cant speak for wherever he usually plays Mafia. (Was it AIM?) But are SKs more common there?

A) That's just kinda how he makes points- pez and I both find ourselves in situations where we kinda have to "interpret" for the other one because it makes sense in our heads dammit
B) He was mostly an AIM player (and would be known as Herring to that crowd) where SKs and second families and all that were significantly more common. But he's also played a few games on the board over the years, where, yeah. Although SK used to not be rare here either!

Obellisk posted...

Tom, you asked me a question, I answered it. Other people answered their questions. You responded to them.

You ignored me after that.

Why?

I...don't remember you answering it actually, so it must not have been very interesting >_> I did respond to you on a later point though.

oh right I forgot about the whole hbtawiuefhawueifh thing move him down to my scum lean pile
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Votals (as of post #303)

(3) Sir Chris: Tom, Ben, puns
(2) Ben: Chris, Corrik, (Lea)
(2) Lopen: Ulti, Hb
(1) Luis: Lea
(1) No Lynch: pezloco, (Tom), (Lopen)
(1) Cam: Lopen
(1) Dowolf: Cam
(0) Lea: (Cam)
(0) MZero: (Lea)
(0) Ulti: (Lopen), (Hb)
(0) Puns: (Lea), (Corrik), (Ulti)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to reach majority! The day will end on Thursday at 9 pm EDT, or if majority is reached, whichever comes first.

Note: if you find any mistake with votals, make sure you tag me and direct me to post numbers where I can make amends

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Tom Bombadil posted...

> I did respond to you on a later point though.

You couldn't have quoted it for me? Le sigh.
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I put you in the +EV pile and you were sad and I complained about last game

you didn't quote your response either!!
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A couple of notes:

I am not subdued. Just putting that out there. I am busy sure but I have been pretty much having fun in topic and in my thought processes. I don't know why you expect me to be jumping up and down but thoughtful analysis Chris is like, peak Chris when I have help to work through a game. If you want to lynch me for it then that's a game problem not a me problem.

Luis being suspicious of Pez of SK stuff to me fits within Luis' town profile fairly well. Luis is a player who believes in attacking pillars of thought rather than get in the dirty with changing player tells. I disagree with this but he has had success with this in the past so it isn't surprising. Also the fact of the matter is I am not a big fan of Pez so even if Luis' attacks are wrong and need to be addressed so that potential scum can't focus on those as a way to slip the noose I am not sold on Luis as a lynch yet.

Would be wholly shocked if Lopen is scum by the way, and I have known him for a long time. Ulti/HB are not both scum on his lynch though and I would say Ulti town HB scum at present. HB's reasoning for digging my post and his thoughts backing up why it stood out and giving me the benefit of the doubt just... seem off.

Actually this is reminding me of a game I played earlier this year where someone did that, let's vote HB.

##Unvote:
##vote: HB

So I find it kind of funny that people are hardcore attacking my Ben logic as if it was anything more than an early game hunch to get the ball rolling more. I still don't like the play from Ben but it was never meant to be substantive and stand the test of time on its own.

Also no more than 1/3 of the people on me are scum and it is just as likely it is 0/3, and HB's whole "Yeah respect Chris and give him importance but also not really interact with Chris and act like he is important in a interactive way!" is familiar to me from a scum handbook. So I feel better about this vote.

Feeling great about Tom, great about Lopen (especially if this vote is right), good about Ulti, Puns, Cam and decent about Luis, Corrik, and Lea.

Good place to start.
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##Unvote

##Vote: HB

I can get behind this. I felt similarly about how highly he said he valued your post.

ok

##Unvote
##vote: Hb

have at ye

lol

I agree with a lot of chris points mid D1 and am not sure how to feel about that
did I get smarter?
is chris selling me something?
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holy wagons batman
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Tom Bombadil posted...

I agree with a lot of chris points mid D1 and am not sure how to feel about that
did I get smarter?
is chris selling me something?

Tom you do realize you made a reads post and I said "I agree with this"
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Well, I am pretty "subdued" as it were because I have had almost a year of training professionally in dealing with people in high pressure situations and it has made it a lot easier for me to not be reactionary to things. I feel I am providing good content, and either that will be seen in time or it won't be seen in time and I'll be lynched, but given I was just lynched in the most painful way possible last month that's not a burden that worries me anymore. Just got to do your best.

Tom is a player I know pretty well so asking him questions to determine things makes sense. Then again I am confident he is town here so less probing is required.

@5tarscream Hello. Can you please tell me what posts of mine you found to be most arrogant? Also what post of mine you thought was the most clear indicator that I may be town. Thank you.

@Corrik Do you buy that Sk "hunting" in this case is evidence of a scum pez?

@Tom Bombadil - I will say once you cease trying to murder me we are likely to get along, as we agree on both of your other scum leans and all of your town leans (red subject to change but he used nuance with me which is always a good start to that interaction). Do you think Ben and I are scrapping at each other is mafia theater or do worlds exist that we are more likely unaligned?

I guess this isn't wholly surprising, I have witnessed before that for some inverted reason town Chris is more likely to get early suspicion than scum Chris due to perception issues. I think no less than 6 people have expressed worry about me so far, and honestly a large majority of them are likely to be town.

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3 votes out of 11 being called a wagon is why people hate Day One.

If you all jumped up HB here we'd get soooooo much useful data!

CHOO CHOO

exactly, sorta!
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Votals (as of post #311)

(3) Hb: Chris, Lea, puns
(2) Sir Chris: Tom, Ben, (puns)
(2) Lopen: Ulti, Hb
(1) Ben: (Chris), Corrik, (Lea)
(1) No Lynch: pezloco, (Tom), (Lopen)
(1) Cam: Lopen
(1) Dowolf: Cam
(0) Luis: (Lea)
(0) Lea: (Cam)
(0) MZero: (Lea)
(0) Ulti: (Lopen), (Hb)
(0) Puns: (Lea), (Corrik), (Ulti)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to reach majority! The day will end on Thursday at 9 pm EDT, or if majority is reached, whichever comes first.

Note: if you find any mistake with votals, make sure you tag me and direct me to post numbers where I can make amends

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then again why does scum chris bother buttering me up when pez is around to earn my sheeply devotion and there are bigger threats to worry about
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I never try to butter a town Tom up as scum tbh.

Just being honest. I'd probably like go 'boo" and cause you to shriek in terror or something.

I have no fear of being mislynched anymore because of my beautiful streak that came crashing down so I am just playing loose. Vote HB with me, he said I was a big deal but hasn't been probing my thoughts at all. Scum trying to placate me bzzz bad idea.
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on the other other hand what are the odds I organically got the same reads more or less as chris

ah well the case here is probably a better one than gut and tone so eh sure but I HAVE MY EYE ON YOU BUSTER

##Unvote: Chris
##Vote: HB

choo choo
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I also like chains because if HB is scum there is 0% chance Ulti and Lopen are scum, and from there I gain more insight. Like people trying to shade Lopen when Lopen has been low key very pro town (it is low key though so if I don't respect your skill you'll get a pass for not noticing) are probably next on my list.

Which means we might have Red vs Chris because if my previous two deduction of HB and Lopen are right then him soft attacking Lopen given his intelligence is "UH OH"
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TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Okay im caught up. So im not really sure if i like the train on Ben i understand the reasoning but at the same time i dont really think that from the few post ben had up to that point that i would be like yeah Ben is 100% Scum.

The train on Chris makes a little more sense to me for the reason he totally gave a very half hearted vote in Ben and ita definitely not what youd exspect from a player of chris' caliber. Also Corrik looks awful for the reason of basically killing a town power by outing him like that. Also basically confriming chris town for not a very good reason and following him like a puppy. This is not a good play for anyone exsphally someone who is usually pretty good like corrik

Puns it could really be a flip of a coin on him. The miller claim is more then likely false the flavor being the author doesnt add up to everyone including the role pm being the characters (unless thats why he is a miller he is the auther?) Its possible he is town power but also very possible he is a scum memeber hiding behind the miller name ove seen this several times exsphally from scum mvp uli a coulpe games back.

Tom ive only seen play in my wwe game but he has offered alot of fluff and jokes does he usually do that as town? I saw him do alot of that last game so idk if its just tom bein tom or him being scum and not actively looking.

Cam this game hasnt been being the cam of im going to push super hard and keep teying to find the tiniest details and twist it to a scum read like he did last time BUT he was told it wasnt a good look and could be trying harder to look better this game.

Lea and Luis are new to me any quick notes on the 2? Seems like both are veterans who came back atleast from what ive read

I don't like this post. He's "caught up" but he doesn't actually add any content here. He doesn't like the train on Ben. He likes the train on Chris. He thinks Puns is lying about Miller, but he doesn't give a good reason or more importantly one of his own.

I think Cam is his only original lead.

But the part that sticks out to me is Tom. I he calls Tom fluffy and remember when Death ISO'd that word? Then Puns kind of did too? So Tom is fluffy and he was fluffy last game therefore scum. But he ignores my read, Chris's, and 5tar's. This part feels like I'm trying to find an easy target to say is scum but it wasn't thought through well.
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Join the fun, Tom. Even if you're still suspicious of Chris, you get a lot of insight/evidence about him by supporting his lynch o' choice. And besides, HB seems like the type to immediately crack under pressure and turn from ambiguously meh coal into a beautiful obv town or obv scum diamond.

CHOO

CHOO

Oh shit my argument retroactively convinced Tom

Pretend I addressed you, the reader, instead. It's an open invite to the PAIN TRAIN

oh boy do we get to ISO (I know that word now ulti am I town??) the word fluffy again

YOU'RE TOO SLOW lea
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Tom softclaiming sonic the hedgehog

The greatest work of English Literature there is, Sonic Fanfiction

Sonic gently brushed the hair out of his companion's face. The sun was high in the sky but the intensity of the stare between these old friends dwarfed anything the bright star above could ever hope to muster.

"This is the end," Sonic said, his voice muted although his eyes sparkled with tears.

"Aye," Lea said.
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something something tails doll something
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Alright then pez ill humor you what should i know that i am missing then? What was your read? I must have missed it or something most of the content i saw from you wasnt very useful i could have read over your trye smart read? Ans i saw chirs read i mentioned it.
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I feel pretty great about the wagon formation of this lynch too.

HB it's time to d-d-d-duel.
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TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Alright then pez ill humor you what should i know that i am missing then? What was your read? I must have missed it or something most of the content i saw from you wasnt very useful i could have read over your trye smart read? Ans i saw chirs read i mentioned it.

Talk to me about HB.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Sonic gently brushed the hair out of his companion's face. The sun was high in the sky but the intensity of the stare between these old friends dwarfed anything the bright star above could ever hope to muster.

"This is the end," Sonic said, his voice muted although his eyes sparkled with tears.

"Aye," Lea said.

I giggled, drawing many looks. No one must know why

turbopuns3 posted...

Tom softclaiming sonic the hedgehog

That was me, I was Sonic town hero.
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Anyway Pez let's try to redeem your image as a lean scum for most of the game. Hb thoughts?
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pezloco posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

Tom softclaiming sonic the hedgehog

That was me, I was Sonic town hero.

What do you think of Hbthebattle, Pez?

I don't even remember what *I* was in that game, just that pez was Sonic and I pegged wolf doll
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TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Alright then pez ill humor you what should i know that i am missing then? What was your read? I must have missed it or something most of the content i saw from you wasnt very useful i could have read over your trye smart read? Ans i saw chirs read i mentioned it.

I don't think you commented on Chris's read on Tom. Tom voted Chris. Chris said scum Tom would never do this.

My read on Tom was basically he's more carefree. But I did pull up a quote of mine from last game to give a bit of context.

5tar basically backed my read and compared Tom to last game as well.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Anyway Pez let's try to redeem your image as a lean scum for most of the game. Hb thoughts?

Lea3Lea posted...

pezloco posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

Tom softclaiming sonic the hedgehog

That was me, I was Sonic town hero.

What do you think of Hbthebattle, Pez?

Well considering that like 2 hours ago I said I didn't have much of a read. That hasn't changed much.

I need to go back and try to more carefully read what got the suspicion started on him.
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pezloco posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Anyway Pez let's try to redeem your image as a lean scum for most of the game. Hb thoughts?

Lea3Lea posted...

pezloco posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

Tom softclaiming sonic the hedgehog

That was me, I was Sonic town hero.

What do you think of Hbthebattle, Pez?

Well considering that like 2 hours ago I said I didn't have much of a read. That hasn't changed much.

I need to go back and try to more carefully read what got the suspicion started on him.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmmmmmmmm

DoomTheGyarados posted...

HB's reasoning for digging my post and his thoughts backing up why it stood out and giving me the benefit of the doubt just... seem off.

Actually this is reminding me of a game I played earlier this year where someone did that, let's vote HB.

So this is the main reason from that post that i see Chris callimg hb scum. Its vague and anecdotal. The sheep here have been noted.

What's your great plan to find scum on D1, Red? I'm all ears!

Leafeon13N posted...

The sheep here have been noted.

Oh no I've been noted

Lea3Lea posted...

What's your great plan to find scum on D1, Red? I'm all ears!

Typically the plan is just lynch them.

Burn a sheep definitely just became an option for that.

Actually Red, let me help:

HB's whole "Yeah respect Chris and give him importance but also not really interact with Chris and act like he is important in a interactive way!" is familiar to me from a scum handbook. So I feel better about this vote.

Was me quantifying my vague statement. It was a couple of paragraphs down so I understood how you missed it.
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Well Hb i see had alot of meta based poats his other contributions where kind off all over the place so i could see why some people. Would think maybe its scum. Id honeatly like to see more from hb to get a much better read but for not i dont think its enough to make me want to join that train. Though trains could be some what useful and force a claim and sometimes on day 1 that is needed.

Okay Pez so Tom being more care free makes him look town to you?

Chris point on Tom i dont really see that as a good tell either so Tom wouldnt vote Chris if he was scum?

Im juat trying to understand your logics on how Tom is town form that little info
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Didnt HB make some self defeating when Im lynched post today? Am I imagining this?

Didnt he do the same thing two games ago and flip town, or was that Ben?

No, I just read all of HB's posts and nothing like that. You're thinking of Ben, I think

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Was me quantifying my vague statement. It was a couple of paragraphs down so I understood how you missed it.

Honestly, it's literally just restating what you already said in slightly longer form. Its not really much of an expansion on it.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Well Hb i see had alot of meta based poats his other contributions where kind off all over the place so i could see why some people. Would think maybe its scum. Id honeatly like to see more from hb to get a much better read but for not i dont think its enough to make me want to join that train. Though trains could be some what useful and force a claim and sometimes on day 1 that is needed.

Okay Pez so Tom being more care free makes him look town to you?

Chris point on Tom i dont really see that as a good tell either so Tom wouldnt vote Chris if he was scum?

Im juat trying to understand your logics on how Tom is town form that little info

Just think how motivated HB will be with a lot of votes! It's way easier to get reads on people this way.

Going from me to one of my confirmed towns?

ouch
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