Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 2: The Exposition Continues

(+) Yeah! (+)

but if puns is murdered roommate powers will be over befote they even begin

the struggle is truly real
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Hi Tom please stop hurting me I want to love you and make sweet, sweet scum lynches with you in the pale moonlight.
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pez is RIGHT THERE man geeze
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dowolf posted...

but if puns is murdered roommate powers will be over befote they even begin

the struggle is truly real

listen bub there is only room for one roommate duo in this here game you're both going down
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I get Corrik pressuring puns but when he deduced puns was town power why announce that to everyone? Why not keep that to yourself and let scum work it out for themselves. Like I dont see the benefit to town of outing what you believe is town power. Why not just let it slide when you had that thought.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

htaeD posted...

Hey Chris (why @ me tho?)

I cant actually really think of a specific downside. But it would still be giving them info.
I was more curious about Corriks mindset than the implications of the act.

Yeah but to formulate that question don't you think you have to, logically, see a downside in order to ask about the benefit of the transaction? You also give town, which is more players than scum, the same information and also if Corrik is correct and town then scum more likely than town knows miller is less likely due to their own role configuration.

Fair enough about the info bit.
It just looked like a downside to me, for town, at first glance. Like maybe scum would feel more safe to fakeclaim cop now or something.. (Though last game it was town that did that <.<)
And again I moreso formulated the question to see how much Corrik thought about it.
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Tom Bombadil posted...

No read but +EV: Ulti, Corrik, Sbell

I'm offended
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5tarscream posted...

I get Corrik pressuring puns but when he deduced puns was town power why announce that to everyone? Why not keep that to yourself and let scum work it out for themselves. Like I dont see the benefit to town of outing what you believe is town power. Why not just let it slide when you had that thought.

Because Corrik is trying to exert flow over the game. Either way scum Corrik has no reason to make it public so he is very likely town.
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Obellisk posted...

I'm offended

I am still mad about that BG claim
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

5tarscream posted...

I get Corrik pressuring puns but when he deduced puns was town power why announce that to everyone? Why not keep that to yourself and let scum work it out for themselves. Like I dont see the benefit to town of outing what you believe is town power. Why not just let it slide when you had that thought.

Because Corrik is trying to exert flow over the game. Either way scum Corrik has no reason to make it public so he is very likely town.

Actually that kinda alarms me, because he announced to everyone that I was townpower back in Endgame Mafia.
Though he was wrong (lol), so maybe that doesnt count.
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Ah I didnt read that. Does he seem similar in any other ways?
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Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.

What cop in there righy mind would scan a claimed Miller?

Exactly my point.

I don't think it is your point. I don't understand why you are trying to draw out a cop.
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Not yet His more recent game is largely overpowering my earlier memories, but I dont think he was as STORMING OUT OF THE GATE in Endgame Mafia as he was here.
And that lines up more with his townplay in WWE Mafia.
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Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik, have you considered that your belief that puns is lying is based solely on the way you are perceiving something and you are in fact wrong, as you have been so many times in the past? (not a dig, just using history to shake you a bit)

No. My flip will make clear exactly why I know 0.0000% Miller's exist this game if you can't just believe me. I would rather not say more regarding this.

Corrik you are sorta the chicken little of mafia. No one can ever believe you
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Inb4 Corrik IS the Miller.
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htaeD posted...

Points to Mzero for voicing the same thoughts I had about Ulti answering Corriks question for Cam.

Not a fan of Bens opening post, at best its a joke.. at worst its a flavor softclaim. And that reminds me way too much of Endgame Ben. Also he up and disappeared afterwards.

I was town in endgame...?
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htaeD posted...

Inb4 Corrik IS the Miller.

The longer it takes him to counter the more likely I am to lynch him
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Luis_Sera89 posted...

Well yeah, that's what I'm getting at in essence. You can have a fixation on SK's. Sure, whatever. But the justification was unnatural.

Other than that, I didn't like Ben immediately jumping on Tom for his 21 questions post. Like, I expect Tom to open with fluffy stuff like that, and it's very easy to safely criticise. Ben seemed a little too eager to jump down his throat over it though.

I've never played with Tom, so if it's null I wouldn't know.
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Lea3Lea posted...

I have it on good authority that Ben is acting more like his excited scum self than he has been in his last few town games

Haha
Posts like these make me like Lea a lot.
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htaeD posted...

Inb4 Corrik IS the Miller.

I've been kinda assuming that this whole time
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it strangely warms the heatt to see that corriks d1 declaratioms haven't according to you all gotten more accurate over the years
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Cam meanwhile is not endearing himself to me.

First with this bizarre attack on Lea, and then with his list of 21 players when its mostly repeatedly saying 'havent read'.
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benjamin3740 posted...

Chris I know you're gone and may never see this. But when you return I want thoughts on Mzero and thoughts on Lea's thoughts of Mzero.

I'm interested in this too if you're not quite consumed by work yet, Chris.

Camarija posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Puns is so town. Scum Puns ain't jumping on a Chris train day one.

Also a literal Chris train, what year is this?

Why do you think Chris is Town?

When did I say Chris was town?

turbopuns3 posted...

Ulti for the record

I would a absolutely jump at the opportunity to bus Chris if we were scum together

Nothing at all holding me back from that

I don't honestly believe this. Also your vote on him makes me think you're town and you're.... telling me not to think you're town? Huh?

Lea3Lea posted...

Does it seem to anyone else like Ulti is kind of operating under a "knowing Chris is town" kind of attitude or am I reading too much into that

I never said Chris was town and this post here reeks of perspective slip. I said Puns is town because Scum Puns doesn't jump on that train. At no point did I say Chris is town.

You scum there broette?

You don't say it, but it seemed implied since I don't know why you would think Scum Pun wouldn't vote a Scum Chris. I mean obviously Chris is going to say a Scum Tom would never vote a Town Chris, but it's a weird argument for someone who's not Chris to make.

I'm in the process of settling my feelings on your alignment but I'm stuck rereading your response here @Lea3Lea

Would you mind walking me through your logic here into smaller steps?

I'd like to follow your thought process but I think there are some implications that I'm not grasping

For example; I believe you are implying certain players have stronger tendencies towards bussing, and certain players are somehow immune from being voted by Mafia as Town

It's over my head

This is clearly my first mafia game~

I like the amount of posts you made overnight, it's a good townish Htaed vibe! I mean, that's what I'd probably say if we had played together for years under different account names. Why am I making this joke when Corrik already clarified I DON'T CARE IT'S STILL A LITTLE FUNNY DAMMIT

Wednesdays are rough but not quite consumed fully yet! If you could quote the posts in question I can give feedback but my initial Mzero impression is "eh" which is basically most Mzero day ones unless I really focus hard on him.
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A good townish htaed vibe????

Btw it tickles me that HB brings up Chris post about Ben
But only to counter Lopen who says nothing worthwhile was said in the first 400 posts.
But now I dont know what HB thinks about Chris or Ben himself, or why he quoted that post specifically.
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Camarija posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Lea3Lea posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Puns is so town. Scum Puns ain't jumping on a Chris train day one.

Also a literal Chris train, what year is this?

Why do you think Chris is Town?

When did I say Chris was town?

turbopuns3 posted...

Ulti for the record

I would a absolutely jump at the opportunity to bus Chris if we were scum together

Nothing at all holding me back from that

I don't honestly believe this. Also your vote on him makes me think you're town and you're.... telling me not to think you're town? Huh?

Lea3Lea posted...

Does it seem to anyone else like Ulti is kind of operating under a "knowing Chris is town" kind of attitude or am I reading too much into that

I never said Chris was town and this post here reeks of perspective slip. I said Puns is town because Scum Puns doesn't jump on that train. At no point did I say Chris is town.

You scum there broette?

You don't say it, but it seemed implied since I don't know why you would think Scum Pun wouldn't vote a Scum Chris. I mean obviously Chris is going to say a Scum Tom would never vote a Town Chris, but it's a weird argument for someone who's not Chris to make.

I'm in the process of settling my feelings on your alignment but I'm stuck rereading your response here @Lea3Lea

Would you mind walking me through your logic here into smaller steps?

I'd like to follow your thought process but I think there are some implications that I'm not grasping

For example; I believe you are implying certain players have stronger tendencies towards bussing, and certain players are somehow immune from being voted by Mafia as Town

It's over my head

Ugh I don't want Ulti to yell at me. Don't yell at me Ulti, this is a strictly academic response to a question

Alright, did you see the post where Chris says he thinks Tom is town for voting him? Based on his years of experience he thinks that a scum Tom wouldn't want the attention that attacking Chris would bring. Scum are a cowardly and superstitious lot, and Chris knows Tom to be especially timid in this role. Chris either knows for sure that he's town, or will be pretending for sure that he's town, so this makes sense as an argument to make.

Now Ulti make a similar argument, saying Scum Puns would never jump on a Chris train. I took this to mean he was making the same argument - scum would not want to draw attention from the game's best player - except that from Ulti's perspective, he doesn't know if Chris is town or not if Ulti is town. If Puns is scum and Chris was scum, I don't think this fear would exist, though opinions vary here between Chris, Puns and Ulti on that (DON'T YELL AT ME ULTI KEEP UP THE NICENESS)

Anyway, that was my logic there but I'm easily intimidated and also nobody agreed so it's not something I'm currently pursuing.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Wednesdays are rough but not quite consumed fully yet! If you could quote the posts in question I can give feedback but my initial Mzero impression is "eh" which is basically most Mzero day ones unless I really focus hard on him.

I mean "eh" is basically the only takeaway anyone could expect tbh.

Also I have seen the Pez posts about the SK stuff now. And it feels like he is deliberately being obtuse to keep his logic confusing. Why is he making me read about quotients.. argh.

I cant speak for wherever he usually plays Mafia. (Was it AIM?) But are SKs more common there?
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Lea3Lea posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Wednesdays are rough but not quite consumed fully yet! If you could quote the posts in question I can give feedback but my initial Mzero impression is "eh" which is basically most Mzero day ones unless I really focus hard on him.

I mean "eh" is basically the only takeaway anyone could expect tbh.

Mzero claimed miller last game, and even then we were always "eh" about him.

Damn smart player by MyLo tho.
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Also for what its worth, Lea. I can see your argument with Ulti. But I can see a town Ulti saying it too. (I often treat players as town before knowing it myself)
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I kind of like Lopen as town for being so prickly and snarky and actively unhelpful. It's an attitude I as town could have related to in the past. And it's an argument I've been hung for many times in the past, but so it goes. He is not helping town, no. However, he's really not helping scum by making inflammatory comments that piss people off and make them want to vote him. I like his level of not giving a fuck. I think it's pretty clear his "policy lynch" shtick was a joke, and I don't think he's actually trying to get people to not read the start of the game. It is mostly jokes. And even if you disagree and every post is a gift, then how does it benefit scum to just paint a target on their back? I think scum tend more to appease and hide and often only Town can be so actively ornery and non-nonchalant about what people think of them.

On a similar note, I think the SK taboo is incredibly silly and I always have. It's not even really SK hunting instead of scum hunting for lynch purposes. Here it was literally just "I wonder if there's an third party now that the game size is increased," a sentiment literally discussed in the sign up topic by many people. I don't think it's a thought crime to wonder if an SK exists and I'm wary of people who have a heuristic they "always" use. It's a bit scummy to lynch someone not on play, but because they said the ~forbidden word~ first. It absolves the lyncher of any responsibility because their hands were tied, the flow chart said so!

Yes, which is why I want people to look at pez independent of the SK stuff because I think he tried to use his room mate powers FOR EVIL.
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Tag
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I will be honest and say I still dont follow the roommate logic.
Can you explain it Chris?
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Which part? I just mean that pez and Tom are never wrong about the other due to an intimate friendship.

Here I say it is for evil as I think pez may have used it to hand wave Tom town
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UltimaterializerX posted...

Lopen, its general principle. I would call anyone out for it.

So do you think red is likely to listen to my suggestion that he skips 400 posts?
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The overall part. But that clears it up.

It would give a scumpez an easy reason to call tom town.
And Townpez in the last game always second guessed himself, and that is a difference.
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Do you think I thought he would listen to me, then?
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htaeD posted...

The overall part. But that clears it up.

It would give a scumpez an easy reason to call tom town.
And Townpez in the last game always second guessed himself, and that is a difference.

Did you read Pez's post about how that was all an elaborate ruse? I don't quite understand the roommate thing in this particular game, but he did address that point.

UltimaterializerX posted...

I dont think Red skips anything.

Lea I will never yell at you again girlie. Smooch.

<3

So I remember Luis doing flavour meta, and I remember him not liking SK hunting, but does anyone remember him playing mafia?

Luis is from back in my days ya whippersnapper. My memory is mostly him being a terror to scum if he gets vigilante as he's really good at intuiting scum but not great at convincing people of his reads

So we should all listen to Luis by default

Unless we think he's scum

(Or he says I'm scum because I KNOW I'M TOWN mirite)
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i mean all major taboo style scumtells @re silly yes; scum are the ones carefiller not to commit them
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Ulti I notice you avoided my question:

Do you think red was likely to listen to me when I told him to skip 400 posts?
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Luis_Sera89 posted...

red13n posted...

pezloco posted...

@DoomTheGyarados you're here!

So, I wanted Chris here for this because I knew he'd appreciate it.

Guys we might actually have a third party this game. It ballooned up to 20 after Han had it set for 17. The increased size and having to adjust a premade game, make me think we might actually have a SK!

I love the concept of third party stuff, gives us more to puzzle over as the game progresses. You know provided they don't have ALL the powers at once.

Also possible perspective flaw here. The game could have already had an SK. Increase in size and then +1 scum.

Again, only scum hunts for SK.

You have no idea how disappointed I am to read through all those overnight posts only to have red steal my thunder right at the end. At least partly.

To elaborate, I don't think pez "SK hunting" is sufficient on it's own for me to think he's scum. People can have skewed perspectives. What irked me was his justification for thinking so. red just highlighted it but I think his reasoning is backwards. In a 17 player game I assume 5 scum unless given reason to believe otherwise. A SK doesn't (or shouldn't) fit in 17 because 5+1 SK means town has under two thirds numbers, and 4+1 means the mafia is under 25%. Assuming then, 5 scum, when increasing that to 21 players, without throwing off the balance, the natural course of action would be adding 3 town and 1 scum. I just don't see how you look at that, biased perspective or not, and immediately suspect the addition of an SK unless you know more than you're letting on. No-one is that one-track.

This is the main thing I didn't like from Luis. He says he went through all the trouble of reading the overnight posts and THIS is his grand finale. Not just SK hunting, but SK hunting with bad set up meta. It feels as though rather than comment on actual game motives and the like, he instead uses all his words to talk about game set up theory. Scum tends to loveeee being able to post a bunch about "facts" that fill a lot of space but don't actually meaningfully express an opinion. Again, he's not really going after Pez as a player so much as he's attacking that SK thought directly. Chris's reason for not liking Pez is better.

dowolf posted...

i mean all major taboo style scumtells @re silly yes; scum are the ones carefiller not to commit them

So can you expand on this with a thought on a specific player?

Quick thought.

Tom, you asked me a question, I answered it. Other people answered their questions. You responded to them.

You ignored me after that.

Why?

(mind you I did not read the rest of topic 1, however I know you didn't come back around to me)
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