Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 2: The Exposition Continues

(+) Yeah! (+)

Jesus, you fall asleep on page 4 or 5 of topic 1 and wake up to page 3 of topic 2.

Ill be catching up over the day.

But does anyone wanna chime in with anything that may have actually happened while I slept?
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Lea is Leo reborn, death. So, yes, you have played with her a bunch.
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Ah!
No wonder.
I need to stay up to date more often.
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Ok first of all Lopen was right. Reading those 10 pages was almost worthless. There was one or two interesting posts but thats all. I still think its a bad idea to tell somebody to not bother though he could at least have summed it up for red.
Red is way way more active than last game and his posts actually have insight instead of just agreeing or answering other peoples points. Red is town.
Toms posts are more natural this game. They still have the same silly ness to them but they lack the apparent pretence of looking like theyre contributing something when they arent. The difference suggests Tom is town too.
Puns is town.
Corrik is apparently doing exactly what he did last game and painting a big target on town backs. Last game it was gladiating because hes so trigger happy. This time its openly outing a town power and then saying oh but dont lynch him. There is only one scenario I can think of where that is a good town move from Corrik. Im leaning scum on Corrik because of that and because hes also bringing Chris under suspicious by kissing his ass.
Chris seems town from what I can get. Is he always this arrogant in mafia? He seems so nice outside he game. Chris town lean.
HB and Ulti seem pretty scummy to me. Ulti is making a big fuss about Lopen saying dont read but didnt actually provide any content he himself thought was valuable and I dont like the way he said dont vote me out I like playing with you guys it helps me with my external issues. It seems like hes trying to guilt players into keeping him around instead of actually providing a reason to be kept around. Ulti seems scum.
HB I need to iso at some point because it seems off. I had to read this on my phone because my internet at school died. Life is hard.

SBell to summarise. Lopen says nothing happened. Ulti and HB says hes scum for it. HB provides 1 post.
Id say skin reading is ok. Theres a lot of nothing but enough to at least get a few reads.

How delightful.

Thanks5tar
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I am not kissing chris' ass. I am going on an adventure with clearly town Chris and following him as a lemming should. Let Chris do the work and enjoy the glory. He won't be here long anyways.
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Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

On the topic of SK hunting. I think anyone bringing it up before we've seen multiple kills at the start of the next day is making a poor move. Also it doesn't help us to lynch scum, at all.
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Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.
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Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.

What cop in there righy mind would scan a claimed Miller?
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Leafeon13N posted...

Basically, the idea that someone could even have some sort of SK tell or hint, especially on day fucking 1z is crazy. You literally just play as if town.

But that's the thing, I'm not hunting to find an SK. I don't think anyone has any sort of SK tell. I simply think that because it's rare B8 tends to meta assume it can't be there. Read back through everything I've said about it, particularly the post where I compare this with my teaching style.
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Leafeon13N posted...

Also i know we talked SK postgame but we also spent a bit talking about breaking the b8 miller mode. That definitely gives me doubt to us having a single miller claim.

I'm not sure anyone answered me if puns took back the miller claim or not. I'm also curious if anyone else claimed miller.

I'd rather not seek out more millers. Claiming D1 is generally bad for town. Say Han did mess with meta and there are multiple millers.Two things can happen with more millers claiming.

1 - Scum has more info and can narrow down people.
2 - Scum could possibly slip a fake miller claim in.

Rely on reads not claims.
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Corrik, have you considered that your belief that puns is lying is based solely on the way you are perceiving something and you are in fact wrong, as you have been so many times in the past? (not a dig, just using history to shake you a bit)
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htaeD posted...

I was there from the start, so I didnt get the 'oh god all these pages to read' feeling I am getting now.
Lol

I was here from the start and I was constantly behind almost 20 posts. They just kept coming. But I don't feel like I'm getting as good of reads on people as I was last game. In particular I'm not getting scum vibes from much of anyone, just Ulti. That doesn't mean I'm getting town vibes from many either.

I want to see more from Chris. He said out of topic that he's busier than he used to be. Or maybe he phrased it differently, but he definitely implied his play style has changed.

I'm used to Chris banging around more as town and directing traffic. In particular I don't see him laying any traps or potential traps. In Japenese History (last game I played with him), one of the first things he did was engage Tom in conversation and ask him for immediate reads on like 4 or 5 players. From that move I immediately thought Chris was town. What I saw was Chris doing two things, first just trying to get content flowing. But second, if Tom ever flipped scum then Chris would have that post from Tom to draw on. Tom would've been unprepared to have hidden his reactions well. Now this second part didn't matter because Tom wasn't scum. But that's the kind of thing I'm not seeing from Chris that makes me ask is he different like he implied before the game started or not? Maybe he's scum.
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red13n posted...

couldn't describe it fully but your posts are a bit more combative here.

kinda agree

red13n posted...

Pez's whole SK talk just sets off all the red flags.

I am telling you that is a nulltell, coming from him.

5tarscream posted...

Is he always this arrogant in mafia?

More so actually! :P It's kinda why I am leaning scum on him. (Counterpoint: I think he personally has mellowed out a good bit since last time I played with him?)

Since nobody is listening to me (including some folks who know better?) I am going to reiterate: this SK thing is exactly the kinda thing Pez would do on general principle, independent of alignment. He is not SK hunting.

Speaking of which I didn't see much to sink my teeth into from the overnight so have a read list instead:

Town lean: Cama, Lopen*, Red
No read/undecided: Miz, Hb, Death, Puns, Luis, 5tar, Lea
No read but +EV: Ulti, Corrik, Sbell
Would be willing to throw an inactivity vote mid-b8 special: Sultan, dowolf, eaed, Lolo
Scum lean: Pez, Chris, Ben

*- He's up to stuff and I THINK it's town stuff
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dangit I had the perfect setup for a red herring joke
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red13n posted...

pezloco posted...

@DoomTheGyarados you're here!

So, I wanted Chris here for this because I knew he'd appreciate it.

Guys we might actually have a third party this game. It ballooned up to 20 after Han had it set for 17. The increased size and having to adjust a premade game, make me think we might actually have a SK!

I love the concept of third party stuff, gives us more to puzzle over as the game progresses. You know provided they don't have ALL the powers at once.

Also possible perspective flaw here. The game could have already had an SK. Increase in size and then +1 scum.

Again, only scum hunts for SK.

The game could have had one before sure. But it's way less likely at 17 than at 21. I'll say it one last time (probably not actually the last tme), I think it's bad form for town to assume an SK doesn't exist. I'm not assuming one does, which is what you seem to think I'm doing.

Also lost in all of this, I think 3rd party in general is possible not just SK. SK was just a fun way to bring it up because thinking about Tom trying to go at Chris as SK was a fun thought. That got picked up on and we lost the general idea that 3rd party could be here at all.
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I feel like SK!Tom is actually less likely to poke the bear than Maf!Tom >_> If Maf!Tom gets lynched it's not game over for my team.
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Also Im not sure Id call what pez is doing sk hunting as such. Like he just mentioned the possibility of a sk and that he doesnt want people to dismiss the possibility not like hes actively giving his attention on trying to root out potential sk on d1. Seems like an exaggeration.
Also Tom mafia is fine, stressful at times and exciting at others. I was actually planning on sitting out a few games and just lurking to see if I can learn more but the flavour was too perfect for me to pass.
Also also Corrik I literally told you last game Im English when you said I was Asian. Where did American come from?

I dunno why I started that post with also but I couldnt be bothered changing it.

htaeD posted...

As an aside for more recent posts, red has already posted more here on this one page than in the entire WWE day1 game

Hyperbole, but thats what it feels like to me.
I like that at least.

I think the scum tell on Red isn't the volume of posts but the quality of posts. What made me notice he could be scum last game was how his few posts were shaped.

He was lurking. You could tell he was reading the game. But when he did post the content just wasn't there. No we shouldn't have expected huge long posts, but there wasn't even a hey that SBell lynch is stupid. In particular he didn't respond to the variety of posts where I said Tom looked bad. That was an easy softball for town Red. Town Red just has to see oh roommate thinks Tom might be scum, I'll respond to that.

But in this game you get Red actually coming in and hunting around. I feel much better about Red this game than last game.
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Obellisk posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.

What cop in there righy mind would scan a claimed Miller?

Exactly my point.
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Well, I am pretty "subdued" as it were because I have had almost a year of training professionally in dealing with people in high pressure situations and it has made it a lot easier for me to not be reactionary to things. I feel I am providing good content, and either that will be seen in time or it won't be seen in time and I'll be lynched, but given I was just lynched in the most painful way possible last month that's not a burden that worries me anymore. Just got to do your best.

Tom is a player I know pretty well so asking him questions to determine things makes sense. Then again I am confident he is town here so less probing is required.

@5tarscream Hello. Can you please tell me what posts of mine you found to be most arrogant? Also what post of mine you thought was the most clear indicator that I may be town. Thank you.

@Corrik Do you buy that Sk "hunting" in this case is evidence of a scum pez?

@Tom Bombadil - I will say once you cease trying to murder me we are likely to get along, as we agree on both of your other scum leans and all of your town leans (red subject to change but he used nuance with me which is always a good start to that interaction). Do you think Ben and I are scrapping at each other is mafia theater or do worlds exist that we are more likely unaligned?

I guess this isn't wholly surprising, I have witnessed before that for some inverted reason town Chris is more likely to get early suspicion than scum Chris due to perception issues. I think no less than 6 people have expressed worry about me so far, and honestly a large majority of them are likely to be town.
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Obellisk posted...

Corrik, have you considered that your belief that puns is lying is based solely on the way you are perceiving something and you are in fact wrong, as you have been so many times in the past? (not a dig, just using history to shake you a bit)

No. My flip will make clear exactly why I know 0.0000% Miller's exist this game if you can't just believe me. I would rather not say more regarding this.
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By the way if Pez is scum, which I think is possible given tone and general vibe of his posts, it's not for the SK stuff is what me and Tom are both saying.

hint hint.
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5tarscream posted...

Also Im not sure Id call what pez is doing sk hunting as such. Like he just mentioned the possibility of a sk and that he doesnt want people to dismiss the possibility not like hes actively giving his attention on trying to root out potential sk on d1. Seems like an exaggeration.
Also Tom mafia is fine, stressful at times and exciting at others. I was actually planning on sitting out a few games and just lurking to see if I can learn more but the flavour was too perfect for me to pass.
Also also Corrik I literally told you last game Im English when you said I was Asian. Where did American come from?

It really doesn't matter.
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You guys have me for ten minutes if you want any hot takes before work swallows me whole btw!
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Corrik Do you buy that Sk "hunting" in this case is evidence of a scum pez?

No. But, if you think so, I will be swayed.
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Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.

Playing along here...
why would you let scum know that millers dont exist?
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htaeD posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.

Playing along here...
why would you let scum know that millers dont exist?

It doesn't really matter if they know.
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I do not.

By the way Pez, I am totally laying my usual traps. Maybe just too subtle for you.

Second follow up, How confident are you that Puns is town power because I am starting to worry.
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that was s fun catchip

didn't like hbl vote on lopen. feels like excuse to pile on.

love how cam accidentally neglected to read the part of my post where i said i was busy and would be more active come morning

also phone typing is awful how do people do it
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htaeD posted...

Corrik7 posted...

Obellisk posted...

Corrik do you think it's anti town at all, if you are right, to out puns as town power instead of letting him hide behind his Miller claim?

No. He brought it on himself. It is antitown to lie about his role with regards to a miller claim because it was just as likely for a scum to be doing it and with the meta regarding miller it was dangerous to let that slide with the knowledge no Millers exist. It had to be made to be known as fake to town as early as possible. If puns scans as scum, he is scum. He is not a miller. A cop needs to know that.

Playing along here...
why would you let scum know that millers dont exist?

Hi @htaeD what is the downside for mafia to know there are no millers?
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Tom Bombadil posted...

dangit I had the perfect setup for a red herring joke

And three of us would've gotten it lol
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dowolf posted...

that was s fun catchip

didn't like hbl vote on lopen. feels like excuse to pile on.

love how cam accidentally neglected to read the part of my post where i said i was busy and would be more active come morning

also phone typing is awful how do people do it

The little swipe feature is god mode mafia play on the go.

BTW you are right HB does not look great right now. I thought Lopen did a really, really good job of against him one on one last night when he was probing for information. Stronger read of that interaction is Lopen town.
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That's the beauty of miller. There is exactly zero downside to fakeclaiming it as any alignment or any role.

If ur miller! Claim! Yay. If ur scum, claim! If ur town power, claim! If you are town vanilla, claim! At best ur considered confirmed town. At middle, you are countered and people expect it's a fake trap and all miller claims are town. At worse, you just say you were faking because it doesn't matter. Either alignment could fake it and it means nothing.

That is why it was important to make it known it was fake. And see exactly how puns reacted. His reaction made it known he is townpower based on how he reacted. If he was scum, we might have been able to have gleaned that based on his reaction (tho mostly woulda went null). It was good we could ascertain his alignment from it.
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I almost finished catching up, but now I have to get my boys to summer school. I'll be back on in a couple of hours after I get to my office.
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Hey Chris (why @ me tho?)

I cant actually really think of a specific downside. But it would still be giving them info.
I was more curious about Corriks mindset than the implications of the act.
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the issue with swipe is i cant use it with a japanese ime and im too lazy to swotch keyboards
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Also its putting a target on Corriks back, but that is in character for Corrik.
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htaeD posted...

Hey Chris (why @ me tho?)

I cant actually really think of a specific downside. But it would still be giving them info.
I was more curious about Corriks mindset than the implications of the act.

Yeah but to formulate that question don't you think you have to, logically, see a downside in order to ask about the benefit of the transaction? You also give town, which is more players than scum, the same information and also if Corrik is correct and town then scum more likely than town knows miller is less likely due to their own role configuration.
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I think it was just the general tone. I mean the whole no way Tom comes at the King thing. I mean Im not saying its wrong there is almost definitely a reason why youre held in such high regard here.
I think the way you presented your arguments seemed to me to be most likely town reads. It appeared to be reasoned and based on what has happened in game. There was no oh my gut says this, or I just think this seems different. Your posts seem very literal and based on what people can see themselves if they know what to look for. Like helping town to see what is there from experience as opposed to trying to ease town in a certain direction because you have scum knowledge. It also suggests to me someone who feels like they have a good chance of being night killed and what as much of their reads down early so they dont leave anything behind. I feel a scum player would be more likely to do things like oh I have a read on x but Ill wait until later to tell you. It reads more like trying to win than stay alive.

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I do not.

By the way Pez, I am totally laying my usual traps. Maybe just too subtle for you.

Second follow up, How confident are you that Puns is town power because I am starting to worry.

I am 100% confident he is. If he was actually miller (which again he has a 0.0% chance) he would have acted more caught and annoyed at me for "outting" him because it would have let him have a higher chance of drawing a shot as actual miller.

But, he is town power and he now thinks it is scummy that I am making it more than known. Where as a Miller would have relished in the fact I "outted" him cuz it made his job easier to play his role and disrupt scum with it.

His reaction was town though. Scum doesn't say "shut" "please chill" "you aren't helping us by doing this". Etc. He didn't wanna be forced into claiming his power role. It was fluidly a town reaction and he is not miller. He could have, but it is outside his "range", to have made that claim as Villager. Thus, he is town power that wanted to remain hidden and left alone to do some damage this game over time.
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and you are telling everyone he is town power because...?
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Corrik7 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I do not.

By the way Pez, I am totally laying my usual traps. Maybe just too subtle for you.

Second follow up, How confident are you that Puns is town power because I am starting to worry.

I am 100% confident he is. If he was actually miller (which again he has a 0.0% chance) he would have acted more caught and annoyed at me for "outting" him because it would have let him have a higher chance of drawing a shot as actual miller.

But, he is town power and he now thinks it is scummy that I am making it more than known. Where as a Miller would have relished in the fact I "outted" him cuz it made his job easier to play his role and disrupt scum with it.

His reaction was town though. Scum doesn't say "shut" "please chill" "you aren't helping us by doing this". Etc. He didn't wanna be forced into claiming his power role. It was fluidly a town reaction and he is not miller. He could have, but it is outside his "range", to have made that claim as Villager. Thus, he is town power that wanted to remain hidden and left alone to do some damage this game over time.

Hm. Yes I can agree with that line of thought, I guess Puns is just having a misadventure of a lifetime over us.

Also I am not too paranoid about you because you could always read me pretty well so I suppose you're just feeling friendly this game.
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dowolf posted...

and you are telling everyone he is town power because...?

I mean having Puns murdered so that I may live is +EV always if you believe I am town.

Come on dowolf, it makes sense.
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Corrik7 posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

I do not.

By the way Pez, I am totally laying my usual traps. Maybe just too subtle for you.

Second follow up, How confident are you that Puns is town power because I am starting to worry.

I am 100% confident he is. If he was actually miller (which again he has a 0.0% chance) he would have acted more caught and annoyed at me for "outting" him because it would have let him have a higher chance of drawing a shot as actual miller.

But, he is town power and he now thinks it is scummy that I am making it more than known. Where as a Miller would have relished in the fact I "outted" him cuz it made his job easier to play his role and disrupt scum with it.

His reaction was town though. Scum doesn't say "shut" "please chill" "you aren't helping us by doing this". Etc. He didn't wanna be forced into claiming his power role. It was fluidly a town reaction and he is not miller. He could have, but it is outside his "range", to have made that claim as Villager. Thus, he is town power that wanted to remain hidden and left alone to do some damage this game over time.

Hm. Yes I can agree with that line of thought, I guess Puns is just having a misadventure of a lifetime over us.

Also I am not too paranoid about you because you could always read me pretty well so I suppose you're just feeling friendly this game.

You are the best player in the game and will die early. Thus, you deserve my sword as long as you are around to direct it. Have at it, good sir.

Bedtime. Later.
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I don't think corrik is wrong but I don't get why he would announce his reasoning

I don't remember Chris' interaction with Ben specifically so I'll go back and look at that at some point. I wouldn't put it past scum!Chris to bus a quirky teammate though.

My swype got pretty crummy in the last month or so for some reason. I just got a new phone so maybe it'll be better now? We'll find out when I go on the road Friday, unless we figure out a way to connect Wifebolo's keyboard to my weird USB port
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