Board 8 > English Literature Mafia Topic 2: The Exposition Continues

(+) Yeah! (+)

We have a book on hb now. Highly motivated isn't in his repertoire.

I don't understand the town mindset that would want us to do nothing all day instead of something, re: Red

benjamin3740 posted...

Going from me to one of my confirmed towns?

ouch

Wait, Hb is in The Book?

Have I been hoodwinked?

pezloco posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Anyway Pez let's try to redeem your image as a lean scum for most of the game. Hb thoughts?

Lea3Lea posted...

pezloco posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

Tom softclaiming sonic the hedgehog

That was me, I was Sonic town hero.

What do you think of Hbthebattle, Pez?

Well considering that like 2 hours ago I said I didn't have much of a read. That hasn't changed much.

I need to go back and try to more carefully read what got the suspicion started on him.

Ok, so hb is the first one to bring up the fact that the way Puns claimed Miller as a character who isn't actually a character seems weird because his role is a character not an author.

I can see this being made as town who hadn't thought through the fact that Puns would have a safelist. Or I could read it as scum who thinks because of their safelist has the meta figured out and thinks they can get an easy lynch here.

But what I found on page 6 of this topic was a player who didn't distinguish between anti-town and scum behavior. Lots of players do things that are bad for town without realizing it. In fact it's often a town tell. Scum tries hard to look like town so they might be less likely to make stupid mistakes.

I don't know hb though. So those that do, should he know that difference better?
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Leafeon13N posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Was me quantifying my vague statement. It was a couple of paragraphs down so I understood how you missed it.

Honestly, it's literally just restating what you already said in slightly longer form. Its not really much of an expansion on it.

No, it is a pretty important thing when what I am saying is if a member of town thought I was important then it follows they would be interacting with me instead of merely propping me up. Your attack on my argument was that it was anecdotal and what I was saying was "no, it wasn't. I was merely reminded of this logic string from an anecdotal occurrence of it."

Also the people who voted Hb after me have been pretty vocal this game and accusing any of them of blindly sheeping isn't very good thought.
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I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

Well I was all ready to vote hbthebattle and now it looks unoriginal

To elaborate a bit on why, though, it's mostly because he has felt like he's been trying to say what I want to hear more than something honest. "Why, yes, I thought of this post!" "In what way" "Well I looked into Ben" "And?" "I haven't found anything yet"

If it was important at the time of getting on my case, I feel like suspicion of Ben would have logically already been there at that time otherwise that post should not have really sprung to your head as something that must be read. Seems more like he just got the first substantive looking post he could find and then kept going with it cause backing down would make him look scummy. Also him saying I should have just admitted it was a joke rather than getting up in his face didn't sit right with me either.

That being said I'll hold off for now. You know. In case he's target bomb.
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HB TRAIN

JOIN, HIDE OR DlE

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

This is not what any of them have done this game btw
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DoomTheGyarados posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

This is not what any of them have done this game btw

That is what they did in this scenario though. Only one of them provided any sort of independent thought even.

Votals (as of post #350)

(4) Hb: Chris, Lea, puns, Tom
(2) Lopen: Ulti, Hb
(1) Sir Chris: (Tom), Ben, (puns)
(1) Ben: (Chris), Corrik, (Lea)
(1) No Lynch: pezloco, (Tom), (Lopen)
(1) Cam: Lopen
(1) Dowolf: Cam
(0) Luis: (Lea)
(0) Lea: (Cam)
(0) MZero: (Lea)
(0) Ulti: (Lopen), (Hb)
(0) Puns: (Lea), (Corrik), (Ulti)

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to reach majority! The day will end on Thursday at 9 pm EDT, or if majority is reached, whichever comes first.

Note: if you find any mistake with votals, make sure you tag me and direct me to post numbers where I can make amends

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Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

By throwing shade at the first lynch to actually gain useful traction by saying everyone is sheep, regardless of voting reasons, it sure seems like your ideal day one is 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 votals for ~original thought~

I chose to hide

Because he's an incredibly deadly target bomb. I don't want to be caught in that blast.
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Leafeon13N posted...

DoomTheGyarados posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

This is not what any of them have done this game btw

That is what they did in this scenario though. Only one of them provided any sort of independent thought even.

Sheeping because you agree is perfectly fine if you've been contributing to the game.
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The question should be less whether a lynch has sheep and whether the case on the lynch has substance. Town can be sheepy. It's not inherently pro-town to put more lynch targets out there. In fact I'd call it anti-town if you don't think the case on them is legitimately better.
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Lea3Lea posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

I'm not attacking anyone for doing something. I've openly attacked a group of people for doing nothing but be sheep.

By throwing shade at the first lynch to actually gain useful traction by saying everyone is sheep, regardless of voting reasons, it sure seems like your ideal day one is 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1 votals for ~original thought~

My ideal day is a trail of independent thought. Say we allynch hb and just go chris said it lynch hb.

What do we gain from that lynch? Not much everyone had the same reasoning.

Say chris ends up scum even. Now you've dug an even bigger hole.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Okay Pez so Tom being more care free makes him look town to you?

Chris point on Tom i dont really see that as a good tell either so Tom wouldnt vote Chris if he was scum?

Im juat trying to understand your logics on how Tom is town form that little info

Yes one of Tom's scum tells last game was deliberate action. He was thinking things like not leaving a paper trail on his town buddies and then later how can I keep making Pez look bad if I flip scum etc... Those thoughts were behind every post and shaping the tone and phrasing. But this game he's more carefree and loose because he doesn't have to have those extra thoughts.

And I agree with Chris that mafia Tom would almost never draw his attention with a vote. I won't speak for Chris beyond that. Go back and read what Chris said. Chris probably has the second best Tom read of anyone on the board.

Tom making jokes is just Tom being Tom, null tell on its own.
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Lopen posted...

The question should be less whether a lynch has sheep and whether the case on the lynch

Then talk about the substantial. You can follow onto a lynch without being sheep.

That is a bad autocomplete for substance.

If you're town and don't have a strong read on HB also being town, him getting a lot of votes should be nothing but beneficial for you at this stage of the game. By instead condemning people for being "sheep" it sends a message to people not to join in, which hamstrings the effectiveness. There are, after all, only 4 votes currently. If HB turns out to be a shining townie, sure, complain about sheep then, but why now? What if he turns out to be super scum?

Chris I just remembered that the last time I played a game you hosted I literally did make dumb attacks on day 1 to keep scum away and even PM'd you explaining as much.

...

I was a jerk last night sorry lol

If Chris laid out a compelling case then why is there necessarily a need to add to it? If you have something to add, do so, but if you don't just appending some garbage is in the interest of making you look like town more than anything.

Also don't call me a sheep this is very clearly my lynch even if I don't have a vote on it
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Leafeon13N posted...

We have a book on hb now. Highly motivated isn't in his repertoire.

Since you say we have a book. I refer you to my post 354. Is HB the kind of player who should know there's a difference between town being anti-town and scum play?
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Lopen posted...

If Chris laid out a compelling case then why is there necessarily a need to add to it?

Thats part of the point you apparently failed to read Lopen. The case wasn't even particularly strong.

Also I will completely agree with Lopen, and indicated as much for a bit now, that his back and forth with HB was VERY good and the entire basis of me being able to form that read. Lopen baited HB and I just saw that he swallowed it is all.

Also yeah Puns, I was so confused last night.
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For a day one case it's fantastic. If you have a better case you should present one.
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Lea3Lea posted...

By instead condemning people for being "sheep" it sends a message to people not to join in, which hamstrings the effectiveness.

I think your logic here is reasonable to think but not true. If you get too many people being sheep and you think hb is town, the value of "hey these people were just sheep" goes down. Same with if hes scum tbh. Less value if there isn't more to differentiate in reason.

Ok let's stop discussing Sheep Theory and get to the meat of it.

Red am I town.

pezloco posted...

Is HB the kind of player who should know there's a difference between town being anti-town and scum play?

He is absolutely 100% acutely aware of this, yes. Though antitown may be the wrong phrasing to use here.

turbopuns3 posted...

Ok let's stop discussing Sheep Theory and get to the meat of it.

Red am I town.

You are on the town side of my scale.

Leafeon13N posted...

You are on the town side of my scale.

Is Lea town.

I suppose that's a potential difference in goals. I'm currently interested in going deep on HB and not the people voting him. Going wide and getting many reads is reasonable, but feels really diluted at the moment, in D1.

Anyway, more votes on HB!

turbopuns3 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

You are on the town side of my scale.

Is Lea town.

He hasn't moved left or right.

Tom Bombadil posted...

I put you in the +EV pile and you were sad and I complained about last game

you didn't quote your response either!!

Oh right. That was you.

Cheerio.
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Leafeon13N posted...

turbopuns3 posted...

Leafeon13N posted...

You are on the town side of my scale.

Is Lea town.

He hasn't moved left or right.

That's interesting to me because I feel Lea has commented on a much wider variety of topics and players than I have, probably at greater length, too.

Leafeon13N posted...

pezloco posted...

Is HB the kind of player who should know there's a difference between town being anti-town and scum play?

He is absolutely 100% acutely aware of this, yes. Though antitown may be the wrong phrasing to use here.

Then I lean more towards scum on him than before.

I'm going to be in and out until after dinner. The wife is not feeling great so I'm working from home with my kids and then have to cook dinner.
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Which I guess begs the question of what makes me seem town to you?

turbopuns3 posted...

That's interesting to me because I feel Lea has commented on a much wider variety of topics and players than I have, probably at greater length, too.

I'm aware, doesn't mean I have a read on Lea. They have a habit of gaining confidence in a game with Chris. Easy person for them to latch onto.

I mean, I've done non-Chris things too

Batted around Puns, yelled at Mzero, had a brief stab at Luis

Bunch of assorted town reads, too. Chris reverse-sheeped onto my Lopen read, tbqh

People should have some opinion on me.

turbopuns3 posted...

Which I guess begs the question of what makes me seem town to you?

Just the general back and forths from you. They very much feel like a continuation of you from last game.

I probably need to check up on the miller claim reactions st some point with a little more vigor, but definitely a town lean right now.

Lopen posted...

I chose to hide

Because he's an incredibly deadly target bomb. I don't want to be caught in that blast.

I cant even imagine what book or character would be that awful.

More seriously, I want to ISO HB in full before I make a vote or not. But what I did see I did not like. )Even if Lopen saw it first.)

@Hbthebattle

Besides, I need to follow proper etiquette.
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Lea3Lea posted...

People should have some opinion on me.

Not having a lean is still an opinion.

Lea3Lea posted...

I mean, I've done non-Chris things too

Batted around Puns, yelled at Mzero, had a brief stab at Luis

Bunch of assorted town reads, too. Chris reverse-sheeped onto my Lopen read, tbqh

People should have some opinion on me.

I do! I like you. You seem invested and investigative. Plus you think a lot of what I think.
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##unvote:
##vote: HB

Chris, if you are sure of this lynch we can end the day now and hopefully get day 2 up tonight.
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I mean i can tell you there is a higher chance of you being town than scum if it'll make you feel better, but that'd also just be raw number semantics.

oh hey
I'm back
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oh fuck
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Elaborating that you have no opinion doesn't especially make me feel better, no. Maybe is satisfies Puns, since he's the one asking for argument.

Hbthebattle posted...

oh hey
I'm back

What a coincidence!
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