Current Events > Survey Shows Decline in LGBTQ Acceptance Among Young Americans

(+) Yeah! (+)

People talking about being forced to date trans or deal with hate speech when the questions are just stuff if you're comfortable with a family member being LGBTQ.
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Lil_Bit83 posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

If you cant tell the difference between lashing out at someone for their beliefs and lashing out at someone for their sexual or gender identity then I dont know how to talk to you.

And you think someone lashing out at you over being LGBT justifies lashing right back? Why not just walk away?

The person who lashes out at LGBT people for being LGBT is very much wrong, but lashing out right back isn't exactly correct. It is a wrong, but not the or an equal wrong as the anti LGBT lashing out. It still qualifies as wrong.

Experiencing the negative side of bigotry doesn't remove you from any civility. You can still hold yourself to a standard beyond the ugliness other people express.

Yeah no. Trying to take the high road doesn't work. Bullies see someone walking away and they either get it in their brain that they can bully more because they perceive that person to be weak, or they get annoyed and try harder to invoke a reaction.

Besides what about the bigots who take it too far and get violent? Try to walk away from that.

No you defend yourself physically if someone attacks you.

Taking the high road in this instance is mostly just not looking for a fight.

Too many people think it is ok to shout at your racist uncle at Thanksgiving dinner. That does nothing, but ruin Thanksgiving. No good comes from contributing to the shouting.
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DeadBankerDream posted...

Also the idea that conservative garbage people being intolerant garbage people is the fault of leftwing "extremism" and not conservative garbage people being intolerant garbage people is about as genuinely dishonest as you can get. Next you might as well blame leftwing extremism for making racist republicans drive cars into protestors.

No they definitely are far from being the cause, but don't pretend that far left people are doing anything beneficial by going around calling people bigots.
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DifferentialEquation posted...

I'd like to see more specific questions asked.

I wonder if it could have anything to with the fact the the left's stance on LGBT issues went from "Leave gay people alone. Live and let live." to "Cuz my sex junk! Is so WHOAHOHO!"

The right have always though the left act like that. You guys have been using same tired argument as long as I have been alive. It wasn't true in 1999 and its not true in 2019.
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So, let me get this straight.

The shooting in America of the gay nightclub

The protests going on in Birmingham (UK) about teaching children that gay people exist (despite it being host to one of the countries biggest pride festival, having a pretty darn big gay following and a delightful gay village)

Trump pushing to rollback on LGBT rights

Have nothing to do with the growing hatred towards gay people, but is in fact the dastardly gay people getting a bit too uppity in speaking out for their basic rights?

Sounds awfully fucking like people like something else to me.
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TommyG663513 posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

Also the idea that conservative garbage people being intolerant garbage people is the fault of leftwing "extremism" and not conservative garbage people being intolerant garbage people is about as genuinely dishonest as you can get. Next you might as well blame leftwing extremism for making racist republicans drive cars into protestors.

No they definitely are far from being the cause, but don't pretend that far left people are doing anything beneficial by going around calling people bigots.

The far left also have no power in America. They are just a convienient scape goat used by the right to remain in power. The have never been able to solve problems. All they do is blame people.
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Funkydog posted...

So, let me get this straight.

The shooting in America of the gay nightclub

The protests going on in Birmingham (UK) about teaching children that gay people exist (despite it being host to one of the countries biggest pride festival, having a pretty darn big gay following and a delightful gay village)

Trump pushing to rollback on LGBT rights

Have nothing to do with the growing hatred towards gay people, but is in fact the dastardly gay people getting a bit too uppity in speaking out for their basic rights?

Sounds awfully fucking like people like something else to me.

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?
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TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

"You made me be racist by suggesting I shouldn't be"
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creativerealms posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

Also the idea that conservative garbage people being intolerant garbage people is the fault of leftwing "extremism" and not conservative garbage people being intolerant garbage people is about as genuinely dishonest as you can get. Next you might as well blame leftwing extremism for making racist republicans drive cars into protestors.

No they definitely are far from being the cause, but don't pretend that far left people are doing anything beneficial by going around calling people bigots.

The far left also have no power in America. They are just a convienient scape goat used by the right to remain in power. The have never been able to solve problems. All they do is blame people.

I assume your intent is sarcasm, but I am not certain.

Truthfully, I wish more people on the right AND left would own up to how awful the people on the FAR ends of the spectrum can be.

I'm a leftist and I will own up to the fact that the far left is a real problem. I think right wing people and by extension far right wing people are a bigger problem, but that doesn't negate tje fact that the far left is a problem.
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TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.
I guess that opinion is pretty stupid.
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DeadBankerDream posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

"You made me be racist by suggesting I shouldn't be"

That isn't what I said.

Is it possible that things would be better in the long term if gay marriage was fully legalized five or even ten years later than when it was?

We will never know for sure, but I'm just asking you to question the possibility.
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TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that things would be better in the long term if gay marriage was fully legalized five or even ten years later than when it was?

Why would it be?

People hate change regardless of when it happens

Besides consider who is President now.
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TommyG663513 posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

"You made me be racist by suggesting I shouldn't be"

That isn't what I said.

Is it possible that things would be better in the long term if gay marriage was fully legalized five or even ten years later than when it was?

We will never know for sure, but I'm just asking you to question the possibility.

Funkydog posted...

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.
I guess that opinion is pretty stupid.

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Will never understand why people care about who someone else is attracted to. How could you care about it enough for it to make you "uncomfortable?"
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TommyG663513 posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

"You made me be racist by suggesting I shouldn't be"

That isn't what I said.

Is it possible that things would be better in the long term if gay marriage was fully legalized five or even ten years later than when it was?

We will never know for sure, but I'm just asking you to question the possibility.

The implication regardless is that the people who have always had rights are opposed to anyone else having equal standing. That is to say, those who have never been discriminated against find it preferable that there's others below them in social standing.

And you'd be correct. Maybe not consciously, but there's an unfortunately high number of people who do benefit (at least indirectly) from LGBT people not having equal legal standing. And they'll oppose those rights being considered equal. And they'll pass down that complicity to their children and so on. It's exactly why that "it'll improve as older generations die" thing is nonsense. Your can never change the status quo without some impetus that forces a cultural change to the mindset of those with power.
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Funkydog posted...

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.

all of these evolved fairly gradually until they culminated in one final big push at the end.

Comfy_Pillow posted...

Funkydog posted...

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.

all of these evolved fairly gradually until they culminated in one final big push at the end.

lol what
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Comfy_Pillow posted...

Funkydog posted...

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.

all of these evolved fairly gradually until they culminated in one final big push at the end.

Yes. A big push. And why are LGBT not allowed this big push?

These things were enacted with often bloody change, but now that LGBT people are speaking up more, they are the ones in the wrong? Give me a break and just be honest with yourselves.
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Funkydog posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.
I guess that opinion is pretty stupid.

No that is not at all what I said. I don't know the specifics of those other movements so I don't know of how fast they moved or what backlash there was.

Why are people so resistant to the idea of questioning whether certain social movements progressed in the best way possible?

These are important questions to answer. Each social movement needs to improve upon the last one.
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Funkydog posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

"You made me be racist by suggesting I shouldn't be"

That isn't what I said.

Is it possible that things would be better in the long term if gay marriage was fully legalized five or even ten years later than when it was?

We will never know for sure, but I'm just asking you to question the possibility.

Funkydog posted...

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.
I guess that opinion is pretty stupid.

That is not what I said
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TommyG663513 posted...

DeadBankerDream posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

"You made me be racist by suggesting I shouldn't be"

That isn't what I said.

it pretty much is.
Doom_Art posted...

"It's always someone else's fault" may as well be the slogan of every conservative movement in the western world

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TommyG663513 posted...

Why are people so resistant to the idea of questioning whether certain social movements progressed in the best way possible?

Because ultimately these people are arguing for the status quo to remain the same.

How can the gay rights movement be any more peaceful? By waiting? People have been fed that line before. People don't get change by waiting for a better time. That better time isn't coming.
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TommyG663513 posted...

Funkydog posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

Is it possible that pushing for rights too hard amd too fast can have some blow back effects?

I guess America should have shut up and been quiet instead of rebelling.
I guess people shouldn't have pushed hard for slaves to be free, and attempted to enforce this in other countries.
I guess women shouldn't have demanded the vote.
I guess that opinion is pretty stupid.

No that is not at all what I said. I don't know the specifics of those other movements so I don't know of how fast they moved or what backlash there was.

Why are people so resistant to the idea of questioning whether certain social movements progressed in the best way possible?

These are important questions to answer. Each social movement needs to improve upon the last one.

The point is that change in society doesn't come with "slow and simple, allowing people to adjust" it has been forced, often with bloody means. People are hard to change and often need to be made to accept by a change in law from governments requiring it. If people in the past had done as you suggest, do you honestly think equality would be as far along as it is now or do you think that those in power (White men) would have continued to keep everyone else down? You wanting to "question if pushing will meet resistance" is asinine because of course it fucking will. But who gives a fuck? Change has to happen and history has shown us that it is often done through people laying down their lives, or killing those that refuse to change. Not that I am saying in this case homophobes and others resistant to change need to die, but simply that action has been the key part to getting society to change.

America fought a war to gain its freedom, then against its self to make slaves free.

A slave rebellion helped immensely to pushing Britain to end its part in the slave trade and then forming a division with their navy to enforce its end through the Trans Atlantic Slave trade area.

The suffragette movement was hardly a "kind and peaceful movement" and even after WW1 they weren't given equal rights despite being utterly vital to it. They employed arson and other terror tactics to achieve their goals, including hunger strikes and sacrificing their own lives.
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Is that mostly due to the big push for trans acceptance? Or is it a decline in acceptance of regular gay people as well?
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vocedelmorte posted...

Besides what about the bigots who take it too far and get violent? Try to walk away from that.

Then you fight back. But treating scum like they're worthy of your time is just making them think like they relevant. You don't accept it with the smile, you just ignore them. Cause when people see that you no better than religious freaks or fascists, then they see you the same as them

And you still don't get it. People like that take silence as their victory, as the others weakness, because that's how they think. There's nothing wrong with telling them off politely or otherwise, when they start their bullshit.
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Dark_Spiret posted...

honestly i think a lot of it has to do with too much shit being thrown in peoples faces now and telling them how they should and shouldn't act. the progressive culture has been kicked into over drive in the last 3-4 years.

exactly
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Lil_Bit83 posted...

vocedelmorte posted...

Besides what about the bigots who take it too far and get violent? Try to walk away from that.

Then you fight back. But treating scum like they're worthy of your time is just making them think like they relevant. You don't accept it with the smile, you just ignore them. Cause when people see that you no better than religious freaks or fascists, then they see you the same as them

And you still don't get it. People like that take silence as their victory, as the others weakness, because that's how they think. There's nothing wrong with telling them off politely or otherwise, when they start their bullshit.

Nothing wrong with telling them off, and I said it. But not getting into 'You must accept us'. I can spite them as much as their spite me after all

DifferentialEquation posted...

I'd like to see more specific questions asked.

I wonder if it could have anything to with the fact the the left's stance on LGBT issues went from "Leave gay people alone. Live and let live." to "Cuz my sex junk! Is so WHOAHOHO!"

Typical brainwashed conservatives.
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Oh heeeeey, what's going on in this topic?
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Vicious_Dios posted...

Oh heeeeey, what's going on in this topic?

Your timing is impeccable
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Can anyone point to any major social or political advancement in the USA for a marginalized group of people that didnt come about via force against the unwilling majority?

Civil Rights?
American Chattel Slavery?
Womans Suffrage?
ANYTHING for the LGBTQ community?
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It wasn't a homophobic straight guy that tried to rape me a few months ago, and it isn't conservative women telling me I'm a worthless cheating fuck because I'm bi.
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AlmightyCheeks posted...

Dark_Spiret posted...

honestly i think a lot of it has to do with too much shit being thrown in peoples faces now and telling them how they should and shouldn't act. the progressive culture has been kicked into over drive in the last 3-4 years.

exactly

Again that really doesn't explain why people wouldn't be comfortable if a family member was LGBTQ.

That doesn't even get into politics.
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BeantownHero posted...

Can anyone point to any major social or political advancement in the USA for a marginalized group of people that didnt come about via force against the unwilling majority?

Civil Rights?
American Chattel Slavery?
Womans Suffrage?
ANYTHING for the LGBTQ community?

Exactly what I said.

Yet for some reason if LBGTQ at all speak a little loudly or call people out then we may as well throw the whole movement out.
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The usual suspects be like "Yes. More people are coming to my side"
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_Squirtle_ posted...

Is that mostly due to the big push for trans acceptance? Or is it a decline in acceptance of regular gay people as well?

My gut is telling me this all because of trans issues becoming mainstream. Ten years ago almost no one knew or cared about trans rights. It is hard for people to have backlash against something they are not aware of or consider so insignificant.
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I'm pretty sure the standards have changed. Back when I was in high school and college, supporting LGBTQ rights didn't mean much more than supporting gay marriage. Now if you're a man who doesn't want to date a trans person, you are transphobic.
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Squall28 posted...

I'm pretty sure the standards have changed. Back when I was in high school and college, supporting LGBTQ rights didn't mean much more than supporting gay marriage. Now if you're a man who doesn't want to date a trans person, you are transphobic.

Nope. Questions include basic stuff like if you're comfortable with a family member being LGBTQ.
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well I get it. They are kind of throwing all that stuff in our face you know? It's actually kind of refreshing to see the young people are rebelling against it it's just too much

I'd be interested to see what this survey showed if the LGB group was separate from the TQ group.
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But why do that when we can baselessly assume, person who deleted your message.
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TommyG663513 posted...

Inferno Dive Dragoon posted...

Pukelid posted...

TommyG663513 posted...

If someone shouts slurs at you then you don't assault them or shout back. You ignore them. Don't give them that feeling of relevance.

You stand up for yourself. Passivity rewards bigotry

This.

Makes me wonder if there's an "Uncle Tom" equivalent for LGBT folks who take bigotry with a smile.

No there is a big difference between not being extremely militant and being an uncle Tom.

There is plenty of grey area to go around.

Must have triggered your ass somethin' fierce if you thought that remark was mod-worthy.
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Squall28 posted...

I'm pretty sure the standards have changed. Back when I was in high school and college, supporting LGBTQ rights didn't mean much more than supporting gay marriage. Now if you're a man who doesn't want to date a trans person, you are transphobic.

I only ever hear this from conservatives, not LGBT people.
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ITT: its the lefts fault that people are bigots

Basically what Im getting from the usual suspects.
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Zodd3224 posted...

Squall28 posted...

I'm pretty sure the standards have changed. Back when I was in high school and college, supporting LGBTQ rights didn't mean much more than supporting gay marriage. Now if you're a man who doesn't want to date a trans person, you are transphobic.

I only ever hear this from conservatives, not LGBT people.

It gets posted by leftys on CE all the time.
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sktgamer_13dude posted...

ITT: its the lefts fault that people are bigots

Basically what Im getting from the usual suspects.

Basically
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The Admiral posted...

Zodd3224 posted...

Squall28 posted...

I'm pretty sure the standards have changed. Back when I was in high school and college, supporting LGBTQ rights didn't mean much more than supporting gay marriage. Now if you're a man who doesn't want to date a trans person, you are transphobic.

I only ever hear this from conservatives, not LGBT people.

It gets posted by leftys on CE all the time.

Haven't seen it
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King_Hellebuyck posted...

lightwarrior78 posted...

King_Hellebuyck posted...

If the left didnt say dont hate these people, everything would be a whole lot better is a fucking stupid take.

If that's where it stopped we wouldn't have the problem. It's moved into demanding representation in everything and complaining if something is too hetero normative. Adding new genders and pronouns and being so hard line about it people get fearful of what will happen if they misgender someone also isn't winning people over either. Nor is trying to make examples of any business the express their religious belief to not approve of it.

It's moved past live and let live.

This post reeks of why is there no straight pride.

Nothing is being taken away from you. Just fucking accept people who arent hurting you.

Those things do hurt though. Too many cry babies sueing to get a payday.
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