Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 251: Cop Out

(+) Yeah! (+)

LordoftheMorons posted...

no one seems to care that every country with surveillance capabilities can probably blackmail the president

Counterpoint: No country can blackmail Trump because he has no shame and nobody who can remove him from office has any interest in doing so. I don't know why you would expect Trump to bother with hiding things from other countries when it doesn't effect him at all.
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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1202767133538684928?s=21

Not surprising, but amazing that no one seems to care that every country with surveillance capabilities can probably blackmail the president

that is not breaking news wapo

haven't we known from day 1 that trump doesn't use secure lines because he hates the government's phone that actually has all the security necessary and likes his personal phone more

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Heavily disagree. Having no shame doesnt mean you cant be afraid of consequences for your secrets being exposed. Trump has, for example, desperately tried to avoid having his tax returns released.

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Oh yeah, Trump obviously has things he strenuously tries to keep hidden. Hell, even things he "admits" he either later tries to backtrack (remember when he started floating the idea it wasn't him on the Access Hollywood tape?) or is so divorced from reality that he's claiming something entirely different from what was revealed (the perfect phone call, etc.)

It's bad that he's on unsecured lines, like... really bad. I'm just saying it isn't new! We knew this in 2017! I mean, idk maybe people need periodic reminders but...

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Heavily disagree. Having no shame doesnt mean you cant be afraid of consequences for your secrets being exposed. Trump has, for example, desperately tried to avoid having his tax returns released.

There are no consequences. Trump doesn't release the tax returns in order to bait Democrats into talking about it. Instead of establishing themselves as the party of labor, or justice, or healthcare, or peace, or any number of things they jump to be the party of invading privacy by wanting to look at other people's tax return.

The Democrats fall for it over and over and over.

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I still cant paste links on this dumb website, so uh... if you havent already seen it, look up what happened in Miami today.

some robbers had taken a UPS driver and his truck hostage and a bunch of cops opened fire on them on the highway and straight up murdered the hostage and another random bystander.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

I still cant paste links on this dumb website, so uh... if you havent already seen it, look up what happened in Miami today.

some robbers had taken a UPS driver and his truck hostage and a bunch of cops opened fire on them on the highway and straight up murdered the hostage and another random bystander.

Has it been confirmed the cops shot the hostage? Last I read they weren't sure if they were killed in the crossfire or by the robbers. Video shows the robbers were definitely shooting.

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

I still cant paste links on this dumb website, so uh... if you havent already seen it, look up what happened in Miami today.

some robbers had taken a UPS driver and his truck hostage and a bunch of cops opened fire on them on the highway and straight up murdered the hostage and another random bystander.

Lack of context as always.

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As always?

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Corrik7 posted...

Lack of context as always.

man, I told you to look up the context at the front of my post. Dont roll your dang emoji eyes at me

this website is broken, I cant paste things, otherwise I would have provided links to context

anyway, none of the context ive seen made getting into a big shootout on a crowded highway seem like a good idea

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https://miami.cbslocal.com/2019/12/05/coral-gables-police-investigating-armed-robbery-miracle-mile/

takes 10 seconds to look up and paste here, how are some people this bad with the internet.

Anyways tldr, robbers held up a jewelry store and shot a woman in the store then took a UPS guy hostage with his truck. While flee'ing they started shooting at police who returned fire. Both robbers, the hostage and a random other got killed in shootout.

Somehow it's still the cops fault that people got shot though, should have just let the criminals get away.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Has it been confirmed the cops shot the hostage? Last I read they weren't sure if they were killed in the crossfire or by the robbers. Video shows the robbers were definitely shooting.

i dont have the stomach to watch the video too closely, but people claim you can see the UPS driver is still alive before the cops start shooting. I dont know that anyone can say for sure whose bullet did it, but it seems like he was killed in the shootout rather than intentionally killed by the robbers.

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hockeydude15 posted...

Somehow it's still the cops fault that people got shot though, should have just let the criminals get away.

yes, I think letting them get away is preferable to endangering a bunch of people by getting into a shootout

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

i dont have the stomach to watch the video too closely, but people claim you can see the UPS driver is still alive before the cops start shooting. I dont know that anyone can say for sure whose bullet did it, but it seems like he was killed in the shootout rather than intentionally killed by the robbers.

Hmm. I didn't watch a ton of the video, but you can't really see anybody in the UPS truck, just the muzzle flashes from their shots from the doorway.

But also didn't these particular criminals shoot at people during the robbery? You can't really just... Let them get away. >_>

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

yes, I think letting them get away is preferable to endangering a bunch of people by getting into a shootout

I mean so you think it is just ok to let 2 people who just robbed a store, shot someone and took someone hostage to just get away. Or that the police should have followed but let them get away once they were getting shot at. Which one cause they both seem extremely stupid. Like you are acting as if the police wanted to get into the shootout.

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If the driver did accidentally get hit in the crossfire, it's very unfortunate and tragic. But "hey these guys already shot somebody, got into one shootout with civilians already, and took a hostage. Let's just let them go" isn't really something you can do.

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hockeydude15 posted...

I mean so you think it is just ok to let 2 people who just robbed a store, shot someone and took someone hostage to just get away. Or that the police should have followed but let them get away once they were getting shot at. Which one cause they both seem extremely stupid. Like you are acting as if the police wanted to get into the shootout.

Lmfao moogle is going for braindead post of the year. Wild.

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PS: Any time moogle says anything anti-cops just post this shit where he says cops should let armed and dangerous criminals actively shooting guns go in crimes.

His biases are

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hockeydude15 posted...

I mean so you think it is just ok to let 2 people who just robbed a store, shot someone and took someone hostage to just get away. Or that the police should have followed but let them get away once they were getting shot at. Which one cause they both seem extremely stupid. Like you are acting as if the police wanted to get into the shootout.

If there was a high chance that a hostage would get killed then yes, they absolutely should have let them go and tracked them down later. Apprehending criminals is important, but not at the expense of getting bystanders killed.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

If there was a high chance that a hostage would get killed then yes, they absolutely should have let them go and tracked them down later. Apprehending criminals is important, but not at the expense of getting bystanders killed.

Bystanders were almost already killed.

These were violent criminals that had already shot somebody, got into a shootout with civilians, and took a hostage before the cops even got involved. If they let them go and they kill somebody, then what?

EDIT: Hell, we don't even know if the hostage was still alive when the shootout began, do we?

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letting them go results in at least one innocent person not being dead so it sounds way smarter than what the cops did. 20 cops shooting around a bunch of civilians endangered more people than the criminals.

but I dont actually mean let them go like let them get away and go free and do more crimes forever I mean... engage them somewhere that isnt a crowded highway? The police have helicopters, they can keep track of a truck without having to drive a car behind it.
I dont know, do anything that doesnt involve shooting a lot of bullets in the direction of a hostage. If you let the criminals get away, maybe the hostage survives, this way he definitely didnt.

I find the situation really troubling for some reason in a way I generally dont react to news stories... maybe its the fault of heist movies or something, but I had this idea in my head that police wouldnt put a hostage in danger like this to get at the criminals. With all the officers shooting and how close the driver must have been to the robbers there was like no way he wouldnt get caught in the crossfire. Its super fucked up.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Bystanders were almost already killed.

These were violent criminals that had already shot somebody, got into a shootout with civilians, and took a hostage before the cops even got involved. If they let them go and they kill somebody, then what?

EDIT: Hell, we don't even know if the hostage was still alive when the shootout began, do we?

theres another link within the link already posted titled like law enforcement source says 19 officers fired into ups truck that says the driver was on his knees and uses the phrase died as the result of the shootout which suggests he was still alive
prior to the shootout

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I just dont really get what theyre supposed to do, here

They have already proved theyre criminals willing to shoot at civilians. You dont know what else they are planning, other than they are armed and very dangerous. If you give them a little space, theyre just going to stick to highways anyway. If you give them too much space, you risk them getting away and shooting at who knows who else. At that point, you dont even know if the hostage is still alive, theres no communication. And typically, robbers dont exactly tend to get surrounded by police and go screw it, I choose death, and start shooting, so acting like the cops purposely walked into a shootout isnt fair. Video makes it appear the robbers started shooting first, so what exactly are the cops supposed to do?

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HashtagSEP posted...

I just dont really get what theyre supposed to do, here

They have already proved theyre criminals willing to shoot at civilians. You dont know what else they are planning, other than they are armed and very dangerous. If you give them a little space, theyre just going to stick to highways anyway. If you give them too much space, you risk them getting away and shooting at who knows who else. At that point, you dont even know if the hostage is still alive, theres no communication. And typically, robbers dont exactly tend to get surrounded by police and go screw it, I choose death, and start shooting, so acting like the cops purposely walked into a shootout isnt fair. Video makes it appear the robbers started shooting first, so what exactly are the cops supposed to do?

stop chasing them

wheres the line for how much additional danger its ok to create in the pursuit of these men? Yes, theyre dangerous and should absolutely be apprehended, but shooting 200 rounds into a public place ended up being even more dangerous. The police shot twice as many innocent people as the robbers did.

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Which returns to the question of what happens if they stop chasing them and they shoot somebody else? Then the cops get blamed for not trying to stop them. You dont know what they might do if they get away, so saying they were less dangerous is unfounded when they already shot somebody and shot at others

Also, it sounds more like the robbers hit the second person since the car was said to be like 300 some feet away, and the robbers were shooting wildly vs concentrated fire on the truck

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HashtagSEP posted...

Also, it sounds more like the robbers hit the second person since the car was said to be like 300 some feet away, and the robbers were shooting wildly vs concentrated fire on the truck

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he blamed the police for even attempting to chase since they should have known they would get shot at or something.

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obviously if the robbers went on to shoot someone else thats bad, no one could know for sure what would or would not happen. The thing they did know is that there was a hostage in the line of fire and I still think its wrong to so directly endanger that hostage to stop the robbers from hypothetically doing something in the future.


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hockeydude15 posted...

At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he blamed the police for even attempting to chase since they should have known they would get shot at or something.

how many innocent people would have to get killed in the pursuit of robbery suspects before you would think the pursuit wasnt worth it?

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The problem is that our views on police forces are so fucked up that you people think the only two options are "SHOOT THE CRIMINALS" and "LET THE CRIMINALS GO FREE"

Surely there's a wide range of possible actions in that spectrum?

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Peace___Frog posted...

The problem is that our views on police forces are so fucked up that you people think the only two options are "SHOOT THE CRIMINALS" and "LET THE CRIMINALS GO FREE"

Surely there's a wide range of possible actions in that spectrum?

Yeah, this.

Moogle said follow them with a helicopter or follow them remotely or SOMETHING, that might be safer than 20 people opening fire on a busy street, and multiple people are like yOu JuSt WaNt To LeT tHeM gO???

This topic would be a lot more effective if people would try to understand someones point of you before attacking it.

inb4 irony

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red sox 777 posted...

This president openly admits everything. He cannot be blackmailed.

Meanwhile, at the Supreme Court...

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I'm not convinced the police made the right decision here, but I also don't see this as fitting in with whatever broader narrative of police violence I suspect you guys are trying to peddle. Any action they could have taken might have had direct consequences on innocent lives and it doesn't seem like a case where it's easy to say in the moment what the right choice is, especially when you consider that they also are actively trying to save the life of the hostage. (Making an option like "wait and engage later" seem less appealing than it otherwise would be)
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Biden going for the bold move of pushing away the Left:

https://www.axios.com/joe-biden-interview-axios-hbo-bf5df4b3-c627-4390-acde-0ec8d44f6915.html

"It's just bad judgment. You all thought that what happened was the party moved extremely to the left after Hillary. AOC was a new party, She's a bright, wonderful person. But where's the party? Come on, man."

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I am pretty consistent in my criticism of the police, but even I am unconvinced the cops were definitely in the wrong here. Especially if the robbers shot first. You cant just let someone shoot at you.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

This topic would be a lot more effective if people would try to understand someones point of you before attacking it.

I mean come on, Moogle came into the topic without any link to the story and only posted this:

MoogleKupo141 posted...

some robbers had taken a UPS driver and his truck hostage and a bunch of cops opened fire on them on the highway and straight up murdered the hostage and another random bystander.

It isn't currently known how the hostage or random bystander died other than gunfire and because the police fired their guns he immediately jumps to they murdered both of them. Doesn't mention that the criminals already shot someone at the store and started the firefight in the middle of a busy highway because that isn't important.

Like man I'm pretty far leaning to the left but the cop thing i get to a point since yea there obviously has been some bad shit with cops but I just will never understand the constant leap to the hate that Moogle has for them.

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Peace___Frog posted...

The problem is that our views on police forces are so fucked up that you people think the only two options are "SHOOT THE CRIMINALS" and "LET THE CRIMINALS GO FREE"

Surely there's a wide range of possible actions in that spectrum?

Did the police escalate the violence of the situation? Thats generally my gauge for blame. In this case Im gonna tentatively say they did not.

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hockeydude15 posted...

Moogle came into the topic without any link to the story and only posted this:

to be fair, you just flat out cannot paste links on mobile now.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Yeah, this.

Moogle said follow them with a helicopter or follow them remotely or SOMETHING, that might be safer than 20 people opening fire on a busy street, and multiple people are like yOu JuSt WaNt To LeT tHeM gO???

This topic would be a lot more effective if people would try to understand someones point of you before attacking it.

inb4 irony

I understand what he's saying, but you can't directly react to something if you're just following them in a helicopter, so the element of danger as if you just let them get away is still there. Like, in an ideal world, that'd be nice. You keep tabs on them, move in at a more opportune time when there are less people around, etc. But what if they decide to ditch their current vehicle for another? What if they just start shooting? What if they try to take another hostage? A helicopter, or following remotely is going to just... See it happen without being able to stop it or react in a swift manner, so you may as well have just let them "get away" for awhile until you move in again.

It's a matter of weighing present danger vs. potential danger. And like Jakyl said, the police didn't escalate the violence, they responded to it.

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Testing link on mobile.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/pensacola-naval-base-shooter/index.html

Also just randomly went to CNN to see if you cant link and hey another shooting. Prob should do something those guns.
Not sure what you guys mean by you can't post links on mobile btw.

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How did you do that?

Im also on mobile, and anything Ive copied, not just links, will just not appear at all when I paste it

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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/78223294?page=4#241

Links work fine for me on mobile

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Maybe should also clarify that Im on Safari on an iPhone

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Aha! Figured it out

Moogle, go into your GameFAQs settings, go to advanced, and change it from HTML to Plain Text
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https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests

pasting works for me on Android firefox

*edit* and I did not need to do such a Plain Text setting

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https://twitter.com/elizacollins1/status/1202982470695686144?s=21

LOL yeah right Pete
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Jakyl25 posted...

Maybe should also clarify that Im on Safari on an iPhone

Haven't used an iPhone in over 5 years, but it sounds like mobile Safari is still garbage and that you should use literally any other browser and just deal with the headache of not being able to change default apps for links.
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https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1202957074264711168?s=21

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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/elizacollins1/status/1202982470695686144?s=21

LOL yeah right Pete

Can't blame him too much for working for McKinsey if he doesn't come from a rich background. What's a young person without a lot of money and with a fancy Harvard degree to do during the worst recession in decades?

It doesn't mean he supported them then or now. Quite a different thing from Hillary who continued receiving money (in much larger sums) from the banking industry long after she was already rich.

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Jakyl25 posted...

https://twitter.com/elizacollins1/status/1202982470695686144?s=21

LOL yeah right Pete

Wait, whats the story here? Mayor Pete worked for a crooked company and is claiming he wants to essentially whistleblow about it?

#doubt

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/kevinmkruse/status/1202957074264711168?s=21

Since when have Republicans ever cared about being hypocritical?

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