Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 251: Cop Out

(+) Yeah! (+)

Corrik7 posted...

Also, that leaves out above just the fact that the police is also a human with human reactions. He is probably notably a bit on edge because he is pulling over a cop likely in a driveby shooting. He is probably alarmed when he sees a gun/gun shells or whatever he saw. Then the suspects begin fleeing in directions. Whether they are fleeing to cover to shoot at you, fleeing in general, etc, you cannot know. All you can know is that you have to make this decision in a snap with the information you have at the time. He made the decision he felt was best

Apply this to every person who has ever been killed by cops when they werent actually a threat.

Heres what you dont get, dude. I dont WANT to dislike Cops. I understand its stressful, and I think they are absolutely necessary in modern cities.

But I think that with their great power should come a great responsibility. If they have the power to detain and arrest people, they should be held to a higher standard than Joe schmoe on the street, and they 100% should abide by the Constitution. The 5th Amendment, look it up.


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I would also like an example of a cop demonized for not shooting someone, which you claim would happen if the cop didnt shoot the suspect and then someone else died
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Jakyl25 posted...

You realize how many bad cops that estimate still leaves??

Im not even gonna argue against it! 5% of cops being bad is a HUMONGOUS PROBLEM

I mean it is honestly probably a decimal somewhere above 99%, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt by lowballing 95+.

That said, if we just assume 95 flat, that means that 95% of cops are good people doing their jobs and getting shit on nonstop by people whenever a situation arises. Sure, there are bad cops. People are human. I am sure bad cops likely diminishes in ratios to total cops than bad people to the populace does significantly. We should expect that. However, humans are human. There will be bad apples. And some cops just aren't even bad but potentially inept. It would be foolish though to act like the police do not literally exist to protect the populace though. That deserves respect and benefit of the doubt until that duty has been broken irreparably to the public in a court of law.

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Corrik7 posted...

Nobody said it did. Misdirection at its finest. Remove context and misdirect! Weeee. Typical playbook you all pull.

Are you stupid?

Corrik7 posted...

Being possibly armed and dangerous and fleeing from the police does merit being shot.

We used to a decade ago laugh at idiot criminals and how they got themselves fucked. Now we just blame police incessantly.

Jakyl asked for an example of people laughing at cops killing people, and you gave us the TV show COPS!

Whos misdirecting and removing context? Is your attention span 3 words long? Jesus Christ try to keep up with the line of thought YOU started, dude.


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Corrik7 posted...

And some cops just aren't even bad but potentially inept.

I mean, I would argue that being an inept cop means you are a bad cop
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Jakyl25 posted...

You did say I was in a bubble for thinking people never laughed at cops killing criminals.

I said exactly what I said. You are cutting all the context out, of course, because you tried to play a moral high ground argument out of thin air that didn't even relate to the post. I responded as I did with the bubble because you seem to be incapable of understanding the internet outrage culture and I guess possibly romanization of rap culture (maybe) has led to anti police thinking's going mainstream in the past decade. Like I said, a decade ago or maybe slightly more at this point (man time flies fast), we were more interested in how criminals fucked themselves with idiotic actions than blaming cops for how they react to idiotic/crazy/insane actions.


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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Are you stupid?

Jakyl asked for an example of people laughing at cops killing people, and you gave us the TV show COPS!

Whos misdirecting and removing context? Is your attention span 3 words long? Jesus Christ try to keep up with the line of thought YOU started, dude.

You are literally leaving out half the post to play your lack of context games. At some point, you need to understand it doesn't work outside your little liberal bubble here.

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Jakyl25 posted...

I mean, I would argue that being an inept cop means you are a bad cop

I assume when we say bad cop we are talking about bad human beings.

Inept cops I would say are bad at their job, but I wouldn't classify them as bad people.

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Oh my mistake.

I didnt realize when we were talking about Cops killing people, and you said people used to laugh when criminals get shot and get themselves fucked you didnt actually mean dead (you know, the original context of this entire discussion) and instead were making some other point.

And of course me assuming we were still talking about cops killing people was removing context.


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Oh my god now youre throwing rap culture into the mix

Corrik, people have never liked cops. From the Wild West, to prohibition, to the Dukes of Hazzard, cops have always been squares at best and bludgeons of the state at worst in America.

Cops probably enjoy more respect and admiration today than they ever have in the history of the country.
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Corrik7 posted...

I assume when we say bad cop we are talking about bad human beings.

Inept cops I would say are bad at their job, but I wouldn't classify them as bad people.

A good person can be a bad cop. They can have weak nerves, an itchy trigger finger, and it can still lead to dead people who shouldnt have.

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Corrik7 posted...

I assume when we say bad cop we are talking about bad human beings.

Inept cops I would say are bad at their job, but I wouldn't classify them as bad people.

No, when I say bad cop I mean a cop who is bad at their job.

Because being bad at your job when youre granted permission to use lethal force is as dangerous as someone actively being corrupt about it
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And pretty much everyone is a bad human being so thats a pointless distinction
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Straight Outta Compton, with the hit song Fuck the Police, came out over 30 years ago.

Any perceived new cop hate youre only now experiencing is 100% due to a little thing called social media and you presumably having a middle class WASP-y background.

*cue metal_dk*

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

A good person can be a bad cop. They can have weak nerves, an itchy trigger finger, and it can still lead to dead people who shouldnt have.

I guess as long as you can make a case that the cop was trying to do good, they shouldnt be held accountable for their actions like a civilian would!
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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Straight Outta Compton, with the hit song f*** the Police, came out over 30 years ago.

No one ever heard of NWA until the movie!
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All of this just reminded me that Paul Ryan likes Rage Against the Machine
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"Y'all need to get out of your bubble! Also people never hated cops."

Dude, black people hated cops so much they let OJ Simpson go free just cause they were still pissed about Rodney King. And that was 25 years ago.

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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

This literally happened when my dad was 12, and he experienced it first hand because he went to the produce terminals down in Detroit with my grandpa. He literally watched tanks roll up and down the street.

But yeah relationships between cops and civilians are definitely at their worst right now.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Any perceived new cop hate youre only now experiencing is 100% due to a little thing called social media and you presumably having a middle class WASP-y background.

*cue metal_dk*

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Fucking yikes.

Young and stupid? Dead.

Drunk? Dead.

Mentally ill? Dead.

Confused by a no-knock warrant? Dead.

Didnt immediately freeze perfectly still? Dead.

Instinctively reach for your wallet? Dead.

...Do I need to go on?

I'm only intending deliberate and persistent resistance here, which will at least disqualify things like the bottom 3 examples, and probably also the "drunk" and "mentally ill" ones if whatever rule describes this is written specifically to account for that.
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TheRock1525 posted...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot

This literally happened when my dad was 12, and he experienced it first hand because he went to the produce terminals down in Detroit with my grandpa. He literally watched tanks roll up and down the street.

But yeah relationships between cops and civilians are definitely at their worst right now.

It's pretty wild that hundreds of people used to die in race riots a year only 50 years ago. If one person was killed by the national guard now, we wouldn't hear the end of it.

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Jakyl25 posted...

And pretty much everyone is a bad human being so thats a pointless distinction

yeah, i wouldn't go that far but i'd definitely say the vast majority of human beings are bad.

"99% of cops are good people" is an idiotically high percentage based on absolutely nothing.

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Cops have always been corrupt and its been in literature and movies and books since we had the concept of cops. What planet do you live on Corrik?

Nelson_Mandela posted...

It's pretty wild that hundreds of people used to die in race riots a year only 50 years ago. If one person was killed by the national guard now, we wouldn't hear the end of it.

Social media and widespread access to information has changed everything.

But yes, this makes Corriks bubble of cops have only been attacked in the last 10 years even more obvious.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/380329/

How about in the 90s when there were multiple studies showing domestic abuse among the police was 40% or higher?

99% or more are good? Are you sure about that?

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Nelson_Mandela posted...

It's pretty wild that hundreds of people used to die in race riots a year only 50 years ago. If one person was killed by the national guard now, we wouldn't hear the end of it.

I mean, we dont hear the end of it from back then either.

If stuff like the race riots and the Kent State massacre have no impact on how you view the politics of resistance to the police, youre doing it wrong.

People who were old enough to already have political leanings prior to these events still run our country
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Peace___Frog posted...

I also want to point out, the "gangsta rap made me do it" defense has been used in court multiple times to try to acquit those who have actually shot and killed cops.

Its success rate is 0%. For someone so on the side of "what's law is moral and what's moral is law", someone sure is inconsistent!

This is the dumbest post in the topic. Why would that defense ever work? That is insane. It's about as dumb as video games made me do it.

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Corrik7 posted...

I pointed to a decade ago when cops was a major television show, in which people tuned in ironically not to see how the cops did their job but how to see how funny criminals were when they fucked themselves.

ok

Corrik7 posted...

By extension if someone did something insanely idiotic to get themselves killed also, it should be just an extension of well that criminal was just an idiot

WHAT A STRETCH

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Also Cops was not mainly about silly criminals getting arrested. Maybe about 10% of the time. Most of the time it was exactly the opposite; a sobering look into police field work.

Like when the Cops cops are chasing a suspect through a neighborhood and hopping fences in the dark, thats not really lol look at this idiot criminal.
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https://twitter.com/lizardrumsfeld/status/1203465646421553152?s=21
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https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1203708954766970882
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https://youtube.com/watch?v=kIYs5cCHKcU

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https://allhiphop.com/news/george-zimmerman-says-he-lives-in-fear-because-of-rappers-HZoSehy-8EW-SqJh6hZ-bA/

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Corrik7 posted...

This is the dumbest post in the topic. Why would that defense ever work? That is insane. It's about as dumb as video games made me do it.

Corrik7 posted...

I guess possibly romanization of rap culture (maybe) has led to anti police thinking's going mainstream

You're arguing against yourself?

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Peace___Frog posted...

You're arguing against yourself?

This is really dumb.

Thinking something can influence people, doesn't mean you think that being influenced by it is a legal defence.

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Gay panic defense works, why not rap panic?
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This is pretty good


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That is a pretty compelling visual! I've seen signs with "Jesus was a refugee" on them in several churches in Berkeley.

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For any British B8ers: from what I can tell, Boris is very likely to remain the Prime Minister because Labour (and Corbyn in particular) have a disturbing history of tolerating anti-Semitism. Given this, a few questions:

1. Why doesnt Labour dump Corbyn if hes such an electoral burden?
2. Why are the Lib Dems generally not considered a viable alternative?

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LotM lmfao, repeating the Jez is anti-Semitic propaganda come on

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Why doesnt Labour dump Corbyn if hes such an electoral burden?

This is the trap. Any Labour leader would be an "electoral burden". England is a Tory nation - among other things it is fundamentally selfish and inward-looking, see: Brexit - and Labour were screwed once the SNP rose in 2015. Even with an awful Tory leadership people aren't inclined to vote Labour. Full stop. All it takes then is our bestselling newspapers - The Mail (literally owned by a family that were friends with Hitler and Mussolini and were favourable towards them in the 30s) and The Sun (owned by Rupert Murdoch) in particular - to repeatedly smear the Labour leader and you end up with a country that acknowledges Johnson is bad but "just can't vote for Corbyn" (as if we have a presidential system) because their biases have been massaged. Ed Miliband was "an electoral burden" too. Except he wasn't, any Labour leader would be. People "just couldn't bring themselves" to vote for him either.

Lib Dems are vile traitorous bastards who aren't worth the time I've already spent typing this sentence.

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XIII_rocks posted...

you end up with a country that acknowledges Johnson is bad but "just can't vote for Corbyn"

XIII_rocks posted...

you end up with a country that acknowledges Trump is bad but "just can't vote for Clinton"

Also Murdoch is a fucking stain on this world and I am going to make a point to piss on his grave at some point in my life. We will be better off the instant he drops dead like the piece of shit he is.

Also Jo Swinson literally would rather get in bed with the Tories again

Her party's Brexit platform is an immediate revoke of Article 50 and Labour's is a 2nd referendum on a soft Brexit vs. Remain, while the Tory deal is harder and could lead to essentially a No Deal in 2020.

Fucking stupid party.

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https://twitter.com/jordanuhl/status/1203911398666985472?s=21

I have high hopes for Pete not winning the primary
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LordoftheMorons posted...

For any British B8ers: from what I can tell, Boris is very likely to remain the Prime Minister because Labour (and Corbyn in particular) have a disturbing history of tolerating anti-Semitism. Given this, a few questions:

1. Why doesnt Labour dump Corbyn if hes such an electoral burden?
2. Why are the Lib Dems generally not considered a viable alternative?

I am not British but I seriously doubt that is the reason Labour is probably going to lose the election. Maybe it could push a few undecideds over but most won't give such accusations serious consideration and the election does not look close.

And Lib Dems are seen as a viable alternative, which is exactly the problem with the remain vote - they have 2 longstanding parties with a history of winning seats in Parliament to vote for, while virtually the whole leave vote has coalesced around the Tories. The Brexit Party has collapsed in the polls as people see the best way to ensure the UK leaves is to vote Tory.

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jesus wtf, not even a fraction of a second to think otherwise or *say* otherwise. nothing but a lolno, gross

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Jakyl25 posted...

Oh my god now youre throwing rap culture into the mix

Corrik, people have never liked cops. From the Wild West, to prohibition, to the Dukes of Hazzard, cops have always been squares at best and bludgeons of the state at worst in America.

Cops probably enjoy more respect and admiration today than they ever have in the history of the country.

Nah, that'd be right after 9/11.

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https://twitter.com/wendellpotter/status/1204054770388013058?s=19

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SgtSphynx posted...

https://twitter.com/wendellpotter/status/1204054770388013058?s=19

https://i.imgur.com/sohWhy9.png

The Washington Post has won a years-long court battle and obtained over 2000 pages of internal documents containing internal interviews about the war in Afghanistan.

spoiler alert: they reveal the government was lying to us about things going well there

Very long article on this filled with excerpts: https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/investigations/afghanistan-papers/afghanistan-war-confidential-documents/

Some choice excerpts:

Senior U.S. Diplomat who served as a special envoy to Afghanistan under Bush and Obama

We don't invade poor countries to make them rich. We don't invade authoritarian countries to make them democratic. We invade violent countries to make them peaceful and we clearly failed in Afghanistan.

Rumsfeld, April 17, 2002 - six months in

We are never going to get the U.S. military out of Afghanistan unless we take care to see that there is something going on that will provide the stability that will be necessary for us to leave.

Help!

Rumsfeld, September 8, 2003

I have no visibility into who the bad guys are. We are woefully deficient in human intelligence.

Douglas Lute, three-star army general who served as the WH Afghan war czar under Bush and Obama, 2015

We were devoid of a fundamental understanding of Afghanistan - we didn't know what we were doing. [...] What are we trying to do here? We didn't have the foggiest notion of what we were undertaking.

Unnamed State Department official

Our policy was to create a strong central government which was idiotic because Afghanistan does not have a history of a strong central government. [...] The timeframe for creating a strong central government is 100 years, which we didn't have.

Unnamed Executive with U.S. Agency for International Development

We lost objectivity. We were given money, told to spend it and we did, without reason.

Top U.S. Diplomat in Kabul in 2002 and later 2011-2012

Our biggest single project, sadly and inadvertently, of course, may have been the development of mass corruption. [...] Once it gets to the level I saw, when I was out there, it's somewhere between unbelievably hard and outright impossible to fix it.

(out of quote blocks for these last two, sorry)

Unnamed Senior NSC Official: "It was impossible to create good metrics. We tried using troop numbers trained, violence levels, control of territory and none of it painted an accurate picture."

Michael Flynn, 2015: "From the ambassadors down to the low level, [they all say] we are doing a great job. Really? So if we are doing such a great job, why does it feel like we are losing?"

WaPo is still in court to get the names of all the unnamed officials (62 are identified. 366 others were blacked out. Of those, WaPo independently identified 33 of them.)


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