Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 251: Cop Out

(+) Yeah! (+)

Hey, Christmas didnt exist then. Liberals had killed it. Its only a problem now that Trump brought it back
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Impeaching a Democratic President sounds like a great Christmas gift to the American People.

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Gingrich was also cheating on his wife at the time! This is after having previously cheated on his first wife with his then wife, and leaving her when she had cancer

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https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1203006910120779777?s=21

Good lord, fuck this guy
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family values

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https://twitter.com/orinkerr/status/1203026500313899008?s=21

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Kudos to Brian Fitzpatrick for being literally the only House Republican to vote to restore the Voting Rights Act:

https://twitter.com/public_citizen/status/1203006936049950721?s=21

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Re Bloomberg: Im sure hes doing it because he doesnt want people to accuse him of using his outlet against other Dems (even if he had nothing to do with the coverage), but barring reporters from reporting is the wrong thing to do. He may take some unfair heat, but he needs to stay completely hands-off (you dont see Bezos saying WaPo cant report on Microsoft).

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LordoftheMorons posted...

(you dont see Bezos saying WaPo cant report on Microsoft).

why would he even care about that

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Right. Full disclosure would be necessary but still completely reasonable
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NFUN posted...

why would he even care about that

I was thinking of it because the DoD just awarded Microsoft a $10 billion cloud computing contract over Amazon (Trump reportedly personally interfered because he hates Bezos, so theres a pretty decent chance Amazon would have otherwise gotten the contract).

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https://twitter.com/nate_cohn/status/1202996880432648198?s=21

Good job Warren supporters, wtf Bernie and Biden supporters (thread)

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/nate_cohn/status/1202996880432648198?s=21

Good job Warren supporters, wtf Bernie and Biden supporters (thread)

Poll showing you why Warren can't be your nominee.

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https://mobile.twitter.com/house_house_/status/1202534562716209152

Honk for Corbyn

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It is almost why that should be encouraging to vote for Bernie. He literally takes people who would vote for Trump and brings them over to the Democrat! That's not "wtf Bernie voters" that's "Ooooh, Bernie can appeal to people democrats can't normally get."

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That Sanders supporters barely support Elizabeth Warren more than Joe Biden has me concerned about Bernie Sanders supporters.

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Dancedreamer posted...

That Sanders supporters barely support Elizabeth Warren more than Joe Biden has me concerned about Bernie Sanders supporters.

I don't think you should be. I again point out that it shows the broad coalition that Sanders has brought together. It's a GOOD thing that Sanders is bringing in people other democrats can't get - not a bad thing.

Just nominate Sanders, easy peasy :P

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

It is almost why that should be encouraging to vote for Bernie. He literally takes people who would vote for Trump and brings them over to the Democrat! That's not "wtf Bernie voters" that's "Ooooh, Bernie can appeal to people democrats can't normally get."

I was literally about to respond to you saying how I tried to explain this to people in 2016 and they didnt get it, then danceddreamer proved my point.

Its not Bernie or his Democratic supporters fault that he pulls in people the other candidates will never get.

Or it is his fault, technically, but thats not a negative thing. Its a feature, not a bug.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

It is almost why that should be encouraging to vote for Bernie. He literally takes people who would vote for Trump and brings them over to the Democrat! That's not "wtf Bernie voters" that's "Ooooh, Bernie can appeal to people democrats can't normally get."

The problem with that is

https://twitter.com/Nate_Cohn/status/1202997956674293761?s=19

Bernie loses the moderate Dem vote just as hard as Biden loses the Bernie voters, apparently. Fucked up

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That is indeed fucked up, but at the same time I feel as if you put Bernie and Trump on a stage he can convince more and more people in the middle-right to come to his cause tbh.

Also Tony I am trying to be more positive. Bernie is pretty much about helping everyone, so I am trying to not be as angry about things like that. Just got to keep spreading the truth and working on policy issues.

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Surely thats not true, Ive been told so many times that its only Bernie Bros who wont vote Dem at any costs.

Theres no way those people could be lying.

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In fairness we already know that a section of "moderate" democrats, and let's be clear it is just a section, are democratic only until you start trying to give economic power back to the working class.

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DoomTheGyarados posted...

I don't think you should be. I again point out that it shows the broad coalition that Sanders has brought together. It's a GOOD thing that Sanders is bringing in people other democrats can't get - not a bad thing.

Just nominate Sanders, easy peasy :P

So the fact you see essentially the same numbers for Biden's supporters means...?

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Suprak the Stud posted...

So the fact you see essentially the same numbers for Biden's supporters means...?

I just answered that. Basically it is time we all decide who is more important. The working class or anyone else. If everyone stops worrying if Bernie is electable and helps him get elected, we can do this. Middle America doesn't care about "oh no not socialism", they just want their lives to be good. I am very convinced Bernie is the one that can most accomplish that.


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That it just points out the broad coalition that Biden has brought together? It's a GOOD thing that Biden is bringing in people other democrats can't get - not a bad thing?

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LordoftheMorons posted...

Kudos to Brian Fitzpatrick for being literally the only House Republican to vote to restore the Voting Rights Act:

https://twitter.com/public_citizen/status/1203006936049950721?s=21

Also going back to this real quick, Justin Amash voted against this apparently because the VRA makes it so that you cant outlaw straight party voting. Which, as dumb as the two party system is, seems like a pretty bad reason to not support this.

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Suprak the Stud posted...

That it just points out the broad coalition that Biden has brought together? It's a GOOD thing that Biden is bringing in people other democrats can't get - not a bad thing?

Suprak please don't insult my intelligence, thank you.

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I'm honestly a bit surprised that Berine and Biden are around similar numbers for deserters for each other because I just assumed you'd see better numbers for Bernie there than Biden in terms of retention. Particularly if it was Warren I think he'd do a good job explaining why she would be the best alternative (and I'm not convinced Biden could convince anyone of anything).

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I don't think perceived lack of electability is a major factor among people who don't support Sanders. I think it's a fundamental disagreement with his policy ideas.

I don't have data to support this so if anyone knows of any polling about this issue that suggests otherwise I will happily admit I was wrong.
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So I finally saw some of the videos of that UPS hostage shootout, and uh.

The UPS truck was in busy traffic almost completely surrounded by civilian cars with people driving, and the cops approached, using occupied cars as cover.

Then they proceeded to have a firefight in the middle of a busy interstate.

Im surprised there were only two civilian deaths, tbh.

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There was a poll done recently that Sanders led in like, a a lot of major categories including health care, education, right type of change to washington, and understands what I am going through.

No idea if that is the standard though I haven't been digging too deep into those cross threads recently.

I do know though a lot of Biden's support comes from his perceived ability to beat Trump though, and that usually polls first or second in terms of voter priority.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

So I finally saw some of the videos of that UPS hostage shootout, and uh.

The UPS truck was in busy traffic almost completely surrounded by civilian cars with people driving, and the cops approached, using occupied cars as cover.

Then they proceeded to have a firefight in the middle of a busy interstate.

Im surprised there were only two civilian deaths, tbh.

The issue is that, while we're playing the Captain Hindsight game, the fact that the robbers just instantly started shooting once they were stopped showed that they had no actual plans for any kind of hostage negotiation or peaceful resolution, so if the cops just stop chasing them, the UPS driver is probably dead, anyway, since he clearly was of no value to the robbers and is just a witness.

There was no real reason to suspect the robbers would actually decide to just go down in a hail of gunfire, though, especially considering they took a hostage and usually the whole point of having a hostage is to avoid that. So it's just, like... What were the cops supposed to do, exactly? Just run away and leave them once the robbers started shooting?

It's an unfortunate situation, and it's easy to say in hindsight that it wasn't the best idea, but I have a very hard time saying they did anything wrong since the shootout only came about because the robbers shot first, so I think saying things like "The cops just straight up murdered two civilians" is woefully unfair.

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Obviously were armchair hostage-negotiating here, but every piece of media Ive ever seen involving hostages, usually the robbers say cops stay back or we start shooting.

There are Twitter clips of Cops approaching and the shooting starting.

Seems pretty bungled to me.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Obviously were armchair hostage-negotiating here, but every piece of media Ive ever seen involving hostages, usually the robbers say cops stay back or we start shooting.

There are Twitter clips of Cops approaching and the shooting starting.

Seems pretty bungled to me.

How exactly are they supposed to negotiate if they can't get close? This isn't a movie where the hostage taker calls from inside the bank.

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Im not even saying they should or could have negotiated.

Did you see any clips?

Im saying approaching them when theyre literally surrounded by civilians was a mistake.

Also the family of the UPS driver has publicly stated it was the cops who shot him, so theres that.


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https://twitter.com/MaxGhenis/status/1202844446187909122

This is a terrible move, and in contrast to this dude I'm feeling pretty justified in my one non-Dem vote last election. Insurance is supposed to be about mitigating risk, not subsidizing near-guaranteed risk; removing disincentives to living in areas that are going to go up in flames every few years is dangerous and not in anyones' interest.

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ChaosTonyV4 posted...

Im saying approaching them when theyre literally surrounded by civilians was a mistake.

And I'm just asking what other choice do they have? These guys had criminal records, so this isn't new to them. They're just going to stay on freeways/highways and out in public. They can't just back off completely since then need to be able to react to whatever these guys do since they're armed and already have been shooting.

Like, we just had a case where a cop was punished for not moving in during a shooting in a crowded school.

Now we have cops getting blasted by people for moving in.

It's a no win situation.

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I'm just going to agree to disagree because I don't think there is a right answer.

I just think the instant jump to "Cops murdered two civilians" rhetoric online is kinda sickening

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LordoftheMorons posted...

https://twitter.com/MaxGhenis/status/1202844446187909122

This is a terrible move, and in contrast to this dude I'm feeling pretty justified in my one non-Dem vote last election. Insurance is supposed to be about mitigating risk, not subsidizing near-guaranteed risk; removing disincentives to living in areas that are going to go up in flames every few years is dangerous and not in anyones' interest.

A rare occasion on which LOTM and I agree.

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HashtagSEP posted...

It's a no win situation.

Ding ding ding.

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https://twitter.com/jasonscampbell/status/1203002830329712641

Ok Haley
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for fuck's sake

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Everybody knows it didn't become a symbol of white supremacy until... 2015...

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HashtagSEP posted...

I'm just going to agree to disagree because I don't think there is a right answer.

I just think the instant jump to "Cops murdered two civilians" rhetoric online is kinda sickening

the bystander in the car is terrible but at least a sort of unknowable accident

the hostage driver was directly in their line of fire, they legitimately just gunned that innocent man down

its not a binary decision between letting them go free forever or doing exactly what they did

theres no way that was the most right decision

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MoogleKupo141 posted...

the hostage driver was directly in their line of fire, they legitimately just gunned that innocent man down

Which didn't occur until the robbers started firing first. And when the robbers are firing wildly, MORE innocent people's lives are at stake. At that point, are you saying the cops just run away and let whatever happen happen?

Using phrases like "They just gunned that innocent man down" suggests intent. Do you not see the issue with that?

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Jakyl25 posted...

Aha! Figured it out

Moogle, go into your GameFAQs settings, go to advanced, and change it from HTML to Plain Text

thank you, that fixed it
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https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/06/politics/duncan-hunter-to-resign/index.html

Toodles!

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StealThisSheen posted...

Which didn't occur until the robbers started firing first. And when the robbers are firing wildly, MORE innocent people's lives are at stake. At that point, are you saying the cops just run away and let whatever happen happen?

if the alternative is the situation we got, then yes, im saying that. These guys are jewel thieves, not terrorists, theyre only shooting to get rid of the cops. Realistically what do you think they would do that ends in a worse outcome than two innocent people dead?
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MoogleKupo141 posted...

These guys are jewel thieves, not terrorists, theyre only shooting to get rid of the cops.

Except for the part where they already got into a shootout with the storeowner and other civilians before cops even were involved and a woman was shot, and then they took a hostage, so they're not just jewel thieves anymore.

If they're stuck in traffic, what's to say they don't start shooting at the cars in front of them to try to get them to move? They've already shot at people. That's the entire issue. You can't just let them go once they open fire again.

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StealThisSheen posted...

Using phrases like "They just gunned that innocent man down" suggests intent. Do you not see the issue with that?

No, I dont. They knew that man was in the truck and chose to shoot 200 rounds in his direction anyway. Killing him wasnt their intent, but they recklessly disregarded his safety in the pursuit of their actual intent.
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