Board 8 > Kobe Bryant has reportedly died in a helicopter crash.

(+) Yeah! (+)

LeonhartFour posted...

So they announced that they're going to bypass the 5-year waiting period and posthumously induct Kobe into the Hall of Fame this year.

The waiting period had been reduced to 3 years back in 2017. This was going to be his first year of eligibility, no need for any waiver.

He, Duncan, and Garnett all had their final season in 2015-2016.

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Once again another RIP topic which turns into a Playground Shitfest.

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It's mostly a respectable topic don't let a few ego-centrics ruin it.

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Mr Lasastryke posted...

shut the fuck up

Have you ever thought of just ignoring people when they upset you by calling you out instead of always posting "shut the fuck up" like a toddler

Just a thought, and my only one on the subject.

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pjbasis posted...

It's mostly a respectable topic don't let a few ego-centrics ruin it.

True enough. I ignored it for the most part, but it just got to the point where I got tired of people wanting to get out in front of this in order to be "right" about Kobe. People don't want to be judged for how they grieve or who they grieve over, and it accomplishes absolutely nothing to poke holes in a dead man's history to show you're above it.

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LeonhartFour posted...

So they announced that they're going to bypass the 5-year waiting period and posthumously induct Kobe into the Hall of Fame this year.

Tim Duncan, Kobe Bryant, and Kevin Garnett is pretty much the perfect trio for that class to encapsulate what the '00s and early '10s in basketball were all about.

Kobes probably top five all time, Duncans top ten, and KG probably top twenty

yeah thats pretty nuts


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LeonhartFour posted...

True enough. I ignored it for the most part, but it just got to the point where I got tired of people wanting to get out in front of this in order to be "right" about Kobe. People don't want to be judged for how they grieve or who they grieve over, and it accomplishes absolutely nothing to poke holes in a dead man's history to show you're above it.

People can feel however they want about his death (and the whole event certainly is tragic), but I strongly disagree that its inappropriate to bring up who he was and what hes done in the past.

Ill leave it at that for the moment.

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I'm a biased Spurs fan, but I'd rank Duncan over Kobe, but they're still undeniably near the absolute top of the sport. Kobe is probably the second greatest shooting guard of all time behind Jordan. Who even comes close? Dwyane Wade, I suppose, but anyone else?

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LordoftheMorons posted...

People can feel however they want about his death (and the whole event certainly is tragic), but I strongly disagree that its inappropriate to bring up who he was and what hes done in the past.

Ill leave it at that for the moment.

There is a time and a place for that discussion, and I don't think anyone here is even disagreeing with that. It's not right after he dies. That's just my opinion.

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LeonhartFour posted...

There is a time and a place for that discussion, and I don't think anyone here is even disagreeing with that. It's not right after he dies.

Why not?

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LeonhartFour posted...

I'm a biased Spurs fan, but I'd rank Duncan over Kobe, but they're still undeniably near the absolute top of the sport. Kobe is probably the second greatest shooting guard of all time behind Jordan. Who even comes close? Dwyane Wade, I suppose, but anyone else?

Jerry West if you consider him a shooting guard

AI feels like a step down

but yeah they both are probably close but I guess I dont remember how good Duncan was in his prime

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TheRock1525 posted...

Why not?

I'm just not sure why there's a rush to be the first one in with "Kobe Bryant did some bad stuff 20 years ago." Like I said before, if you know Kobe well enough to be hurt by his death, that event isn't some breaking news. You aren't giving someone information they didn't have before.

This is an emotional time for people. It isn't the time to be trying to have logical arguments on whether he did or didn't commit a crime. Nobody here wants to have that argument right now. They're not in a good frame of mind to have it. Give people some room to breathe and recover. There will be plenty of time in the future to debate Kobe's legacy. There isn't a limited window of time in which this discussion can be had.

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LeonhartFour posted...

I'm just not sure why there's a rush to be the first one in with "Kobe Bryant did some bad stuff 20 years ago." Like I said before, if you know Kobe well enough to be hurt by his death, that event isn't some breaking news. You aren't giving someone information they didn't have before.

This is an emotional time for people. It isn't the time to be trying to have logical arguments on whether he did or didn't commit a crime. Nobody here wants to have that argument right now. They're not in a good frame of mind to have it. Give people some room to breathe and recover.

Maybe the lesson is "don't hero worship celebrities" if Kobe's death leaves you this emotional that pointing out he settled a rape case (where he admitted that the other party didn't consent) is a "NOT NOW" moment.

Like I feel for his family and especially for the loss of the 13 year old daughter, but sometimes we should reflect a bit on our priorities when the response to facts about his life is to get angry at the person giving the facts and not the facts themselves.

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LeonhartFour posted...

There is a time and a place for that discussion, and I don't think anyone here is even disagreeing with that. It's not right after he dies. That's just my opinion.

Agreed. The side that would defend him are more likely to be emotional and hostile, so you aren't getting a rational discussion, you're getting an argument where you get to appear like the reasonable party because the other side is showing aggressive hostility towards you. When really they think you're simply shitting on their period of mourning. Even if you just want to innocently have the discussion, one side is still going to be emotional and hostile towards you for bringing it up at all.

Basically there's no way it can lead to anything but bad discussion, so just leave it a few days/weeks. It's not even necessarily/just a "respect for the dead" issue, it's a more practical "this is, and will be, bad discussion" issue.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Maybe the lesson is "don't hero worship celebrities"

Okay, congrats on your balanced and patently obvious take. I don't worship Kobe. I've said this multiple times already, but it's still a tragic event and there's nothing wrong with being bothered by it. There are times to be emotional and there are times to be logical. The aftermath of a tragedy is a time to be emotional. There is plenty of time for logic later.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Why not?

Because going into a topic overwhelmingly filled with people mourning a dude's death in order to attack him is like the internet forum equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church picketing funerals. The topic is for the mourners, it's not for the detractors. Make another topic about it if you really feel that strongly about it, but let the mourners mourn in peace.

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TheRock1525 posted...

is a "NOT NOW" moment.

Easy not now moment:
The time people are mourning that person's death.

It ain't a celebrity worship issue as much as a you being an insensitive dick issue. Let them mourn, bring it up after. Or make your own topic if you feel that strongly, then anyone going in there will go in expecting that. No need to be in this one.

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LeonhartFour posted...

Okay, congrats on your balanced and patently obvious take. I don't worship Kobe. I've said this multiple times already, but it's still a tragic event and there's nothing wrong with being bothered by it. There are times to be emotional and there are times to be logical. The aftermath of a tragedy is a time to be emotional. There is plenty of time for logic later.

Funny how we couldn't have this discussion when he retired either because we were emotional as well. Then when he's clearly out of the public eye, no one wants to hear about it because nobody cares. And now that he's gone, it's once again we can't talk about it because we're all emotional. And I guarantee you if we try to talk about it later we'll get "why are you speaking ill of the dead" like that Michael Jackson documentary 10 years after his death.

The reality is that will never be a satisfactory time because people love him so much and the case was so rapidly swept under the rug. People didn't want to talk about it while he was still alive and they sure as hell will do everything to avoid it while he's dead.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Maybe the lesson is "don't hero worship celebrities" if Kobe's death leaves you this emotional that pointing out he settled a rape case (where he admitted that the other party didn't consent) is a "NOT NOW" moment.

I kinda think it's a not now thing and all I know about the dude is that he is the guy that keeps getting brought up between jordan and lebron in the neverending goat argument

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TheRock1525 posted...

And I guarantee you if we try to talk about it later we'll get "why are you speaking ill of the dead" like that Michael Jackson documentary 10 years after his death.

I don't feel like that was the nature of the reaction to that Michael Jackson documentary, or at least not the reaction I saw.

And the case wasn't so rapidly swept under the rug. Everybody familiar with Kobe remembers that case. That debate has been had a lot over the last 20 years.

But if you feel the absolute need to have the correct take on Kobe because you're worried nobody will get to hear it later, have at it. I don't think any harm will be done if it isn't had right now, but that's just me.

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Every piece of news I saw yesterday still mentioned the sexual assault case. You're not breaking new ground by repeatedly bringing it up in a topic where people just wanted to mourn and remember the good times, you're just being a dick

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Before I even clicked the topic I said out loud to myself "TheRock1525 is going to be in here arguing about Kobe being accused of rape, the literal day of his death." and I hope somebody picked up that phone because I fucking called it.

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TheRock1525 posted...

The reality is that will never be a satisfactory time because

There's plenty of times when it's fine to bring up. So it may not get attention it deserves, fair. But there's definitely one time a person should be celebrated for their accomplishments if you've any ounce of respect to them or what they've done: their death.

You'll have some grey areas of that with people like Cosby but that ain't here. If you feel that strongly then there's nothing stopping you from making your own topic on it. Easiest solution and answer as you get to have your conversation and people can participate if they want to have it.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Why not?

If you don't understand that its like not understanding why you should be considerate.

These are just basic human decency things. If people gather to mourn, respect that.

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I can't get in the headspace that would make me want to get in the faces of people grieving and tell them how to feel. Been seeing it a lot the past day and all I can imagine is that you've gotta be pretty miserable to do it.

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KommunistKoala posted...

Every piece of news I saw yesterday still mentioned the sexual assault case. You're not breaking new ground by repeatedly bringing it up in a topic where people just wanted to mourn and remember the good times, you're just being a dick

Wait so it's okay for news organizations to bring it up but not okay to mention it in this topic?

How does that make any sense?

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Rock it's okay for you to bring it up, just don't be surprised at the reaction when you do.

I'm positive I've seen you use the "free speech does not mean freedom from consequences" argument, so yeah.

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This is a message board, not a funeral, and nobody here really knew the man. Going "let us INTERNET GRIEVE our celebrity hero, no need to think about the possibility of serious wrongdoing" already looks bad even if the accusation is bull.

That said, I don't think discussion started to seriously degenerate until Lasa pulled the "well even if it wasn't rape, he still cheated!" card. That was complete unnecessary, irrelevant chickenshit.

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Maddox posted this. I don't care what you think about Kobe (or Maddox for that matter), those last two paragraphs are so true.

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TheRock1525 posted...

Wait so it's okay for news organizations to bring it up but not okay to mention it in this topic?

How does that make any sense?

Oh never mind. You'll never "get it". You're just that socially incompetent. Better than being an asshole though so my opinion pf you actually improves!

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Grand Kirby posted...

Maddox posted this. I don't care what you think about Kobe (or Maddox for that matter), those last two paragraphs are so true.

Yes yes yes

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pjbasis posted...

Oh never mind. You'll never "get it". You're just that socially incompetent. Better than being an asshole though so my opinion pf you actually improves!

We're on a message board for video game character contests, not at the man's funeral.

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TheRock1525 posted...

We're on a message board for video game character contests, not at the man's funeral.

Last I checked, everyone on this message board is still a real person with real feelings.

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Yes you are right. That is the function of this message board.

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TheRock1525 posted...

We're on a message board for video game character contests, not at the man's funeral.

No, we're on a message board with our friends for ten years or more. This is a social board, and it has clearly evolved in time. What's more, I don't see why you don't make a topic about Kobe's legacy here if you want honest discussion about it. By invading a topic that's just about processing something to shift the agenda, you are looking to be right, and not be a good steward of this community.

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LeonhartFour posted...

There is a time and a place for that discussion, and I don't think anyone here is even disagreeing with that. It's not right after he dies. That's just my opinion.

I guess I'll expound on why I strongly disagree with this, even though I do see where you're coming from.

1. If the discussion's not had now, it's never going to be had. It's always either the "wrong time" or of so little salience that nobody cares to have it.
2. More importantly, if you're someone who has been affected by sexual violence (and this won't be true for all such people; I'm sure some of them agree with you), what you're seeing in 95% of the reactions to Kobe's death are messages that he was this fantastic guy. The fact that he had, in his own admission, a non consensual encounter is not even mentioned, despite, as you point out, being something that "everybody is aware of." That sends the message, intentionally or not, that rape is so inconsequential that it can be washed away by somebody's other accomplishments or, yes, good that they subsequently did in their life. I know yesterday was emotionally challenging for a lot of Kobe's fans, but they're not the only people being affected by the news.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

More importantly, if you're someone who has been affected by sexual violence

Right here.

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Tom Bombadil posted...

I kinda think it's a not now thing and all I know about the dude is that he is the guy that keeps getting brought up between jordan and lebron in the neverending goat argument

if Lebron was good for anything, it was getting Kobe out of that discussion

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TheRock1525 posted...

Wait so it's okay for news organizations to bring it up but not okay to mention it in this topic?

How does that make any sense?

I mean a journo got suspended for tweeting about it so even beyond board 8 it's a no no. It's really simple.

If people are mourning, don't be a dick.
Don't go into a topic clearly mourning to be a dick. If you really want to talk about it good news, you can make your own topic to hold the conversation and talk about the ideas you want. You can talk about it with people who want to talk about it instead of being told to fuck off by everybody.

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Eh, I don't think most of these posts are necessarily for appreciating who Kobe was as a man. We didn't know him.

On the same note, I do think there's room for people to change and grow as people, and to learn from their mistakes, even though it certainly doesn't erase them. I think a lot of bringing up his misdeeds in the immediate aftermath of his death tends to gloss over that as well.

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LordoftheMorons posted...

I guess I'll expound on why I strongly disagree with this, even though I do see where you're coming from.

1. If the discussion's not had now, it's never going to be had. It's always either the "wrong time" or of so little salience that nobody cares to have it.
2. More importantly, if you're someone who has been affected by sexual violence (and this won't be true for all such people; I'm sure some of them agree with you), what you're seeing in 95% of the reactions to Kobe's death are messages that he was this fantastic guy. The fact that he had, in his own admission, a non consensual encounter is not even mentioned, despite, as you point out, being something that "everybody is aware of." That sends the message, intentionally or not, that rape is so inconsequential that it can be washed away by somebody's other accomplishments or, yes, good that they subsequently did in their life. I know yesterday was emotionally challenging for a lot of Kobe's fans, but they're not the only people being affected by the news.

I agree with all of this. But there's a way to treat people and still have this discussion. There's a way to not come off as holier-than-thou and engage people in a meaningful discussion and create change. This is, in a way, the problem with this board. Not every event requires only one topic. Co versed in tons cam branch, and create new topics. It's okay.

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you should totally be a dick when an evil person dies

Kobe wasn't evil tho

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LordoftheMorons posted...

If the discussion's not had now, it's never going to be had. It's always either the "wrong time" or of so little salience that nobody cares to have it.

Strong disagree. This reveals that this is coming from a warped perspective. "Certain assholes in the future will try to shut down discussion so I'll have to take it out on you guys now."

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It's not about "taking it out on you guys" at all

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It's fine to call out someone famous for being a terrible human being when they die (see: Ted Kennedy), but the irritating thing is that there is almost zero chance that Kobe actually raped someone. So you're shitting on someone at the worst time for something that they in all likelihood never did.

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Ugh you people just don't get abstract language.

What I'm saying is I believe there is a right time and a wrong. Telling me there isn't because of some other group of people means nothing. I will gladly follow you and defend your right to criticize kobe if someone tries to shut you down in the appropriate location.


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Nelson_Mandela posted...

It's fine to call out someone famous for being a terrible human being when they die (see: Ted Kennedy), but the irritating thing is that there is almost zero chance that Kobe actually raped someone. So you're shitting on someone at the worst time for something that they in all likelihood never did.

He admitted that she didn't view it as consensual, which is the same thing as admitting that she didn't consent because that's how consent works. It's possible that he didn't realize he was raping her which is not quite as bad I guess, but you're just factually wrong.

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Personally even if a person was confirmed terrible to me I wouldn't interrupt a mourning procession but I guess that's just me and my ol principles I guess ahyuck

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pjbasis posted...

What I'm saying is I believe there is a right time and a wrong. Telling me there isn't because of some other group of people means nothing. I will gladly follow you and defend your right to criticize kobe if someone tries to shut you down in the appropriate location.

This sounds exactly like the language thrown at Colin Kaepernick for kneeling during the National Anthem.

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